Any Planning peeps? Advice needed .. pleeeaase

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CazD

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Hi. I got turned down for a field shelter for my horses and am currently in the process of making an Appeal. One of the questions on the form is "is the land an agricultural holding?" Can anyone define agricultural holding for me? I've got 2.5 acres of land so not enough to make an application for planning permission under agricultural rules BUT I use the land for grazing horses - which is an agricultural use AND the land is registered for Single Farm Payment! So, is it agricultural or not????
If anyone has any advice on submitting an Appeal I'd be grateful to hear from them. Many thanks.
 
Hi Well the first question is - on what reasons did they turn down the application in the first place?

this is what you need to address when making your appeal... really the right to a field shelter is dependant on whether you have the lawful use of the land for grazing and keeping horses....

Have been through this all myself a couple of times including an appeal (which I won) so if I can help in anyway let me knw....
 
Yes it sounds like the issue might be the use of the land. If it is agricultural use then you should be using the land for either forage or crops. Horses are classed differently for leisure purposes and you need different land use for them...if ridden and have supplimented food other than grazing. The only time you can have horses on agricultural land if when they are soley there for the purpose of eating grass...not used for leisure and not requiring supplimented food stuff. Was the field shelter a mobile one because they might look more favourably on one of those.
 
I work for a land agent and would say, yes, the land is in agricultural use. If you use the land for riding on and have jumps in the field etc this use then changes to amenity/equestrian. If it is used solely for grazing and esp if you are claiming SFP then it is agricultural. Clear as mud?
 
The appeal was turned down because I already have a stable on the site. We are in a AONB and the reason given was that it would be too many buildings on the paddock. The stables were built 20 years ago and are not in a position where they could be accessed by loose horses so they cannot be used as a field shelter. The Planning guy from the LA approved the decision but because my parish council objected it went to a sub committee meeting. The chairman of the sub committee is also chairman of my parish council (!) and effectively talked everyone into rejecting my application. I dont have a Lawful Use Certificate but the planning dept is happy that the field is just used for grazing not "keeping" horses and they have said I could have a mobile shelter (although I might like to apply for Certificate of Lawfulness, although I do not "have" to (!) The field slopes steeply and a mobile shelter would be more difficult to site out of the way, added to which the cost is is lot more so if possible I would prefer a fixed one,
 
Unfortunately horses are not classified as agricultural animals and it may be he status of the field that is the problem. My local council does understand that horses need shelter though and it maybe that yours would accept an application for a mobile field shelter. If they refuse that you would probably have to get the field status changed
 
The question is Is the land an agricultural holding?

As you are registered for SFP and therefore must have a holding number the answer to the question on the form is Yes
 
I had the same trouble with my field. It was registered for agricultural use not equine which is classed as leisure, so i had to apply for change of use then apply for the stables.
 
I already have stables on the paddock - they were built 20 years ago - although I dont think there was actually a planning permission for Change of use - although there is PP for the stables. I'm reluctant to apply for Change of Use in case it get refused as the value of the paddock will then drop through the floor and, as I already have the horses on it and the stables, I dont want to pay the LA unnecessarily for a planning permission or, if I get Change of Use refused, have them turfing my horses off my paddock.
 
In planning terms horses can be classified as Agricultural or Equestrian depending on the following.

If your horse is only used for farming purposes, breed for meat or not being fed at all then your horses would be for agricultiral use and could be kept on agricultural land.

If your horse is fed or used for pleasure/leisure persuits then the horses are deemed to be used for Equestrian purposes and your land should have planning permission for equestrian use. This means that you or the previous owner should have applied for change of use to Equestrian Use. You can still apply for single area payment if it is used for equestrian use.

In other words you need to apply for planning permission for Equestrian Use for your land to be able to keep your horses on it.

My advice would be to instruct a local surveyor who can act on behalf of your interests. He will already have a good relationship with the planning department and be able to help you.
 
Thanks PeterNatt for your reply. I think you are right that I should be applying for Change of Use but at the moment no-one is saying I cannot keep horses on there. All they have said is that I cannot have a field shelter because I already have a stable. The reason for refusal is that there will be two many buildings on the site - not that the field is not registered as Equestrian. If I apply for Change of Use from Agricultural to Equestrian it is going to cost me money and there is a high possibility that I will get refused. That will mean that the land I paid nearly £30k for four years ago wont be worth more than about £10k and I will have to find somewhere else for my horses. Wouldnt it be better to let sleeping dogs lie and not apply for Change of Use? Can I still go to Appeal without applying for Change of Use?
 
simplist would be to put a moble shelter on the field. we have teeply sloping fields but we managed to site a mobile last year. saves all the planing malarkey and the horses get shelter.
 
Well, we have land with 2 stables on and 2 shelters! We have horses only although I assume the use would be classed as 'agricultural'. We do also put jumps in our field to use (summer only) and we have no intention of changing the use.

Personally I would suggest you firstly appeal the decision to be honest. I can't see how the parish council could overrule the local authority if they approved it. If the local planing auithority have approved it and it's just a case of the parish council i think you may be succesful in appealing.

I have recently applied to put a log home/cabin so i can live where the stables are./ that was refused (as we thought) buT i am still trying to get a way round it by siting a 'temporary structure' instead! I think you have to fight these things sometimes. It frustrates me that so many people erect similar buildings without permission yet get away with it yet if you go down the 'proper' routes you get turned down!

Borrow some sheep for a while, stick them on your land and bobs yer uncle it's a smallholding!
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Hi

You do not need to change the use as you already have an established use i.e: use of the land for grazing and keeping horses for the past 10 years. This use is established also as you say the stables on site have been there for the past 20 years - all you are therefore applying for is an additional field shelter for the horses kept on site which is essential for their welfare. You would need to prove that it is an essential need for the horses. If of course you bought a mobile shelter you would not need planning neither need to appeal but to be honest you may as well appeal.

How many stables do you actually have on the 2.5 acre site? and how many horses? because I only have 2.5 acres in green belt area and in an AONB same as you, with established use and have 5 stables (one of which is mobile and can be turned into 1 large foaling box) the last stable is in actual fact large and I got the permission for this on appeal as I stated that is was essential for my larger horse!

The certificate of lawfulness is not necessary in your case and is a waste of money so I wouldnt even bother with it.

If I was you I would not tick the agricultural holding bit.

Hope this helps... I hate it when you get a bully on the parish council such as you do... I beat one of them not once but twice and so can you.....!
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Word of Warning for all:- Don't automatically assume you won't need PP for a mobile field shelter, as some Councils still require PP.
 
Hiya

You are quite right as unless you have the lawful use of the land for grazing and keeping horses the mobile shelter/stables are considered unlawful and therefore need planning permission.

By proving established use of more than 10 years then the certificate of lawfullness is not required.

Also you need to prove they are truely mobile in that they are not fixed to the ground, on any hardstanding and are capable of being easily moved around.

I found Redmire stables the most helpful - if you call or email them they will send you a pack regarding a precedent mobile case "perdeck" (cant quite remember the name on the top of my head) but it set the precedent regarding mobiles and is indeed helpful with councils.

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I would strongly recomend that you get a surveyor to help you before the planners dig their heels in. Many local authorities do incist that mobile field shelters have planning permission. All it needs is for someone to complain and enforcement will be out to take a look!
 
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