Any saddle fitters on here that could answer a question please?

Doormouse

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I have had a saddle made for my 4 year old. She is 15.1hh, quite wide and has a wither but only just really. She also has very big shoulders and is very short coupled.

The saddler told me I would need a saddle made on a straight cut tree and then he would make the flaps forward cut for me. He had done this for my big ISH and it had worked very well. However, when the saddle arrived it immediately was obvious that it was tipping forward very badly and rolling around as well. This is the second one he has made that doesn't seem to fit her at all, and as much as I appreciate she is not an easy shape to make a saddle for I can't understand why both saddles he has made for her just seem to sit on top of her as opposed to actually fitting to her. I am forced to have my girth so tight to stay on and I hate that.

Is he right in saying off the peg saddles will all inhibit her shoulders or is it possible to find saddles that will sit behind them comfortably that are still forward cut enough for jumping?

If there are any saddle fitters on here who could perhaps give me some possible types of 'off the peg' saddles that might fit a horse like this I would be very grateful because I am fed up of going round corners leaning out in case the saddle goes round and I don't think she is enjoying it much either.
 
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asmp

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I'm no saddler but your horse sounds very similar to our youngster, although his shoulders may not be as big. Our saddler recommended a Thorowgood cob saddle (square cantle), which we managed to find second hand. You can adjust the gullet on them - or if you want a leather saddle, a Kent & Masters.

I personally wouldn't buy a made to measure for a youngster as they will change shape quite quickly.
 

be positive

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Whether he is correct in saying there is nothing off the peg that will fit her is irrelevant as what he has made obviously doesn't fit her either, you are not covered so well by buying m2m but I think you should have rejected this one immediately as it sounds unfit for purpose, it should not sit on top of her, require over tightening of the girth or slip going round corners, did he actually see you ride in it when he delivered it?
I would want to see it stripped down and the tree placed on her to see if it is anywhere near being suitable, my saddler will do this and it is interesting to see how the tree fits, or not, before he puts it back together again, he did this with one that the owner had been told was not suitable, it was m2m originally by another saddler but subsequent saddlers had over flocked it, stripped down with less flocking it did fit perfectly well it was the flocking causing the problems, not all saddlers take the time to do a such good job.
 

9tails

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Why is your saddle sitting on her shoulder? It should sit behind the shoulder. Are you placing the saddle too far forward?
 

Doormouse

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Why is your saddle sitting on her shoulder? It should sit behind the shoulder. Are you placing the saddle too far forward?

All the saddles I tried before having one made for her rolled about and shot up her neck therefore impeding her shoulder. Also to have a saddle forward cut enough for me (very long from hip to knee) seemed to result in them sitting on her shoulder.
 

Doormouse

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Whether he is correct in saying there is nothing off the peg that will fit her is irrelevant as what he has made obviously doesn't fit her either, you are not covered so well by buying m2m but I think you should have rejected this one immediately as it sounds unfit for purpose, it should not sit on top of her, require over tightening of the girth or slip going round corners, did he actually see you ride in it when he delivered it?
I would want to see it stripped down and the tree placed on her to see if it is anywhere near being suitable, my saddler will do this and it is interesting to see how the tree fits, or not, before he puts it back together again, he did this with one that the owner had been told was not suitable, it was m2m originally by another saddler but subsequent saddlers had over flocked it, stripped down with less flocking it did fit perfectly well it was the flocking causing the problems, not all saddlers take the time to do a such good job.

That is really interesting, thank you. I have to say that this second saddle is much worse than the first and is wide in the twist which I asked specifically for it not to be, has a deep seat and high back which I hate and looks enormous on her.
 

Doormouse

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I'm no saddler but your horse sounds very similar to our youngster, although his shoulders may not be as big. Our saddler recommended a Thorowgood cob saddle (square cantle), which we managed to find second hand. You can adjust the gullet on them - or if you want a leather saddle, a Kent & Masters.

I personally wouldn't buy a made to measure for a youngster as they will change shape quite quickly.

We went for a made to measure as we could not find anything that even remotely fitted her when she was first broken as she was fat and wide with no wither. We actually broke her in a race exercise saddle with a half tree and lots of pads! He promised that when she changed shape it would not cost too much to part ex the first one and make another one. The first one seemed to sit very high on her but he promised that was because it needed lots of riding on to bed in which I believed. The saddle did settle a bit after a few weeks, the mare seemed comfortable and I bought some non slip numnahs to help with the slipping. Then she lost weight and it became apparent that it really didn't fit at all, hence I asked him to come out and make another one as I am reasonably confident that she won't change enormously in shape again.
 

Cowpony

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I would second a Thorowgood. If you are fairly petite you could try a Compact version, which is good for short backed horses.
 

Christmas Crumpet

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I would ring the saddler, shout and swear at him, threaten Trading Standards & HMRC VAT man, go to his shop and throw the saddle at his head plus all the other random saddles & stirrup irons you can find that he has lying about and refuse to leave until he sorts it out (and gives you lots of pairs of girth guards to appease you). It might work you never know.
 

Pinkvboots

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The ideals come up wide so do Kent and masters as many of the Arabs are shown in them and they are wide with big shoulders and often difficult to fit, I use lavinia Mitchell saddles on mine they come up much wider than most other makes of saddle, you can pick them up second hand her sizing is 1 to 5 in width and I think a 3 is a wide to X wide which is what I have and it's wider than any saddle I have ever had.

Also when you say he makes the saddle flap forward cut do you mean the front of the flap? As horses with a large shoulder are best to have a straighter cut flap so it allows them to move more easily.
 
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Christmas Crumpet

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Also when you say he makes the saddle flap forward cut do you mean the front of the flap? As horses with a large shoulder are best to have a straighter cut flap so it allows them to move more easily.[/QUOTE]

I have the same kind of saddle as Doormouse. Working hunter style so very straight and sits behind the shoulder nicely but with forward cut flaps.

Kent & Masters also make them.http://www.kentandmasters.co.uk/s-series-range/s-series-gp/63-s-series-anatomic-gp
 

samlf

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You could have just described by 4 year old exactly, although she is an inch higher.

She has been fitted with a GFS fieldhouse pro extra, and it fits beautifully. It is slightly straighter cut than a standard GP to allow for shoulder room.
 

Pinkvboots

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Also when you say he makes the saddle flap forward cut do you mean the front of the flap? As horses with a large shoulder are best to have a straighter cut flap so it allows them to move more easily.

I have the same kind of saddle as Doormouse. Working hunter style so very straight and sits behind the shoulder nicely but with forward cut flaps.

Kent & Masters also make them.http://www.kentandmasters.co.uk/s-series-range/s-series-gp/63-s-series-anatomic-gp[/QUOTE]

Oh I see I have seen the Kent and master saddles they are really nice and are known for being good on wide big shouldered horses, do you think it's just not the right shape? One of my Arabs is wide but has a wither and a shaped back not flat at all and he has to have quite a curved tree to match his back shape, the ideal ramsay or the working hunter are just the wrong shape, I was under the impression the Kent and masters ones are a similar shape to the ideals.
 

sbloom

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It is usually possible to have a forward cut flap for the rider, only a very prominent shoulder and a lack of muscle at the wither can make it difficult. Depending on the shape of her back, croup high or not, it may be possible to go for a bigger seat size to give you more room but with an upswept panel that shortens how long it is on her back. It is also entirely possible to have a narrowish twist on most horses up to XXW or thereabouts, and even on some wider - for instance I tried a hoop tree on a Welsh C and it was very unstable, so she is in our standard "neater" flat tree in a 7 fit (XXXW) and it's stable.

Saddles moving forwards is a classic problem on flat wide backs, you need a flat tree that is very stable and then a point strap (combined with a middle not rear strap usually) and possibly the upswept panel shape I talked about, then fit it in perfect balance with very even contact down the front, usually meaning some neat flocking trick.
 
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