any Solicitors on here

Tyssandi

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Immediate notice is clearly unreasonable and any half way sensible client wouldn't agree to it/lawyer would tear it to bits. Mentioning that it would be due to breaking the yard rules effectively makes the yard rules part of the contract so you need to makes sure those are written down and if they change all liveries would have to be notified in writing with reasonable notice AND you'd have to have a clause in the contract saying you had a right to vary rules with such notice.

If you try to protect yourself from every eventuality you quickly get tied in knots and there will always be *something* you can't stand on your yard but which you never thought anyone would do so didn't prohibit.

If horse is arguably dangerous you *might* get away with having immediate termination of livery services on H&S grounds with livery reverting to DIY rate immediately/if horse is dangerous with others it may have to have restricted turnout immediately or similar. Then you can give the normal months notice and, as long as you check it has four legs/feed & water daily etc you probably will be OK from the YO's responsibility for care of animal perspective - honestly though, you're running a business, getting an hour or so consultation with a lawyer is probably worth it.
Why is it with H&H when it is homed in on a part which irrelevant to my question. That part stays as I said in the very first post, so I am not discussing that.

The whole point of this thread is: is our contract said one months notice that does not mean a verbal month it means a payable livery rent which is why i want to reword it
 
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FinkleyAlex

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1. Terminations

1.1 Any notice made by the Yard User in connection to this agreement shall be made in writing either by letter or email by giving strictly One Month's paid notice. The said are not to be forced to stay for the period of this notice but are responsible for paying up to the day of termination.

1.2 If the relationship between the Yard Owner and Yard User is somewhat compromised beyond repair, the Yard Owner withholds the right to terminate the contract with immediate effect by giving notice in writing. The Yard User will not receive monies back if notice has been served under this clause. (I think this would be deemed unfair so could make it one weeks notice within reason depending on the circumstance.)

1.3 The Yard Owner may serve One Month's notice in writing to the Yard User no later than the livery rent due date for reasons being but not limited to regaining possession of their property. The Yard User must pay their portion of rent up until the day of termination regardless of which party issues the notice.

1.3.1 The Yard User is not obliged to stay for their notice period but the rent is still to be paid for said term.

1.4 Should the Yard User need to terminate their contract early due to urgent circumstances, they must request and get this agreed in writing with the Yard Owner. The Yard Owner withholds the right to either decline and request One Month's notice or negotiate the final payment and notice period within reason.


I think that covers everything? :)

Please don't use the above, it's far too ambiguous and would not hold up as a legal contract. The following from the BHS website should be sufficient:

[Clause number - e.g. 5.1] The Yard or the Owner may at any time terminate this
Agreement or any part of it by giving notice in writing to the
other party of not less than one month's notice.

Then I would add the following
[5.2] For the avoidance of doubt livery is to be paid up to and including the end of the notice period stated in clause [5.1].

[5.3] Upon full payment of livery in accordance with clauses [5.2 and 5.1] the Owner will be permitted to remove their horse prior to the end of the notice period stated in clause [5.1].

[5.4] The Yard reserves at their sole discretion the right to dispense with the notice period stated in clause [5.1] should the Owner materially breach any clause in this contract.

That covers you for everything you seemed to want to cover. Obviously remove the brackets around the clause numbers (and change the clause numbers to fit in with your contract).
 

Goldenstar

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Not being on livery since the day when no one had a contract I find this all quite perplexing .
For instance 5.3 of the above can a YOer really prevent you removing your horse I would just load up and go no one would make me keep a horse were I was not happy .
 

GirlFriday

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Why is it with H&H when it is homed in on a part which irrelevant to my question. That part stays as I said in the very first post, so I am not discussing that.

The whole point of this thread is: is our contract said one months notice that does not mean a verbal month it means a payable livery rent which is why i want to reword it

I think that if a contract is unfair you may find you can't enforce *any* of it. Like it used to be that if you lied to your insurance company about something the whole cover was invalid, not just the bit you lied about.

I certainly often see contracts with a clause in about if any other clause is unenforceable then the rest remain enforceable, in order to get around this.

So, it may be that by having the unfair clause in you invalidate the *entire* contract - in which case you can request a pepper corn in lieu of notice and still not be entitled to it.

You need legal advice on that.

So, yes, we do go off-piste on discussion forums (discussion <> Q&A) in general but in this particular circumstance you may be doing yourself more harm than good with the unfair bit effectively cancelling out any notice so it is quite relevant!
 

popsdosh

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Not being on livery since the day when no one had a contract I find this all quite perplexing .
For instance 5.3 of the above can a YOer really prevent you removing your horse I would just load up and go no one would make me keep a horse were I was not happy .

Im Afraid I would be like you load up and f off and watch them try to enforce it. Im afraid if things had got that bad you are better off without each other,money would be a tiny issue unless your a total control freak maybe.

I really dont know when it comes to law why yard owners dont go to the pros rather than try and do it on the cheap on a forum. Im beginning to think somebody hit the nail on the head last weekend maybe?
 
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FinkleyAlex

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Well ultimately you could load up and go, but the owner could sue you for breach of contract/debt claim. If you were unhappy you should give your one month's notice. If you want to leave early then pay your livery in accordance with clause 5.3 and off you go!
 

Tyssandi

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Please don't use the above, it's far too ambiguous and would not hold up as a legal contract. The following from the BHS website should be sufficient:

[Clause number - e.g. 5.1] The Yard or the Owner may at any time terminate this
Agreement or any part of it by giving notice in writing to the
other party of not less than one month's notice.

Then I would add the following
[5.2] For the avoidance of doubt livery is to be paid up to and including the end of the notice period stated in clause [5.1].

[5.3] Upon full payment of livery in accordance with clauses [5.2 and 5.1] the Owner will be permitted to remove their horse prior to the end of the notice period stated in clause [5.1].

[5.4] The Yard reserves at their sole discretion the right to dispense with the notice period stated in clause [5.1] should the Owner materially breach any clause in this contract.

That covers you for everything you seemed to want to cover. Obviously remove the brackets around the clause numbers (and change the clause numbers to fit in with your contract).
Thank you for this very useful

:)
 

Goldenstar

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Well ultimately you could load up and go, but the owner could sue you for breach of contract/debt claim. If you were unhappy you should give your one month's notice. If you want to leave early then pay your livery in accordance with clause 5.3 and off you go!

Still getting my mind round this .
So you go onto a yard and you pay two months livery in advance one is your deposit and one is your first months livery .
When you leave you serve notice to the owner and you then don't pay the last month so when you leave you are quits .
If you leave before that you forfeit what's left of the deposit ,that's fair .
If the YOer tells you to leave and never darken their door again they return deposit .
If the YOER asks you to leave and you stay the last month then the deposit pays for that ,that's seems fair as well .
Have I got that straight now .
 

LD&S

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Still getting my mind round this .
So you go onto a yard and you pay two months livery in advance one is your deposit and one is your first months livery .
When you leave you serve notice to the owner and you then don't pay the last month so when you leave you are quits .
If you leave before that you forfeit what's left of the deposit ,that's fair .
If the YOer tells you to leave and never darken their door again they return deposit .
If the YOER asks you to leave and you stay the last month then the deposit pays for that ,that's seems fair as well .
Have I got that straight now .

That's how I see it and seems to make sense
 

Sugar_and_Spice

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Still getting my mind round this .
So you go onto a yard and you pay two months livery in advance one is your deposit and one is your first months livery .
When you leave you serve notice to the owner and you then don't pay the last month so when you leave you are quits .
If you leave before that you forfeit what's left of the deposit ,that's fair .
If the YOer tells you to leave and never darken their door again they return deposit .
If the YOER asks you to leave and you stay the last month then the deposit pays for that ,that's seems fair as well .
Have I got that straight now .

Except that in reality with so many YOs being bat s hit crazy, it's more likely they'd demand the livery paid upto the end then refund you the deposit upon leaving, minus any damages they'd managed to dream up that you supposedly owed.

I once gave a deposit of 1wk on livery that was paid weekly and was fine with that, there's no way I'd ever pay a month's livery money as a deposit. There's a reason why so many liveries don't give notice, just wait until the last day they've paid for comes around and then announce they're leaving that day. It's because of all the unprofessional YOs who make life unpleasant for the duration of the notice period, not saying the OP is one of those but there are a lot out there.

FWIW I've only twice had a livery contract in writing, all the rest have been verbal and most paid weekly. So I don't think a month's deposit and a month's livery up front too is as normal as some have said it is.
 

Spottyappy

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Not being on livery since the day when no one had a contract I find this all quite perplexing .
For instance 5.3 of the above can a YOer really prevent you removing your horse I would just load up and go no one would make me keep a horse were I was not happy .
I am not a YO, and only been on a lovely yard once.
However, my OH is in the horse industry and we have known clients unable to remove their horses when there has been a dispute - by their YO padlocking horses in/owners out. Changing padlocks etc. It's a civil matter then according to the police.
 

popsdosh

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I am not a YO, and only been on a lovely yard once.
However, my OH is in the horse industry and we have known clients unable to remove their horses when there has been a dispute - by their YO padlocking horses in/owners out. Changing padlocks etc. It's a civil matter then according to the police.

Yes it is a civil matter . If taken to court it would backfire on the YO big time. It would be deemed a Tort against possessions with damages to be paid .
 

The Fuzzy Furry

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Round my neck of the woods its common practice to take a deposit, or 2 months livery up front by most YO's.
It seems to have kept things much more stable (excuse the pun!) for a number of yards. I am in a very busy horse area tho with loads of yards - constant posts on FB by folk looking for livery - and most good yards have a wait list or never need to advertise a space.
 

Auslander

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I can't imagine padlocking a horse in, so that the owner couldn't remove it! If the relationship has broken down to that degree, I'd rather the horse left straight away. Ths is why I take a deposit, so that I am never in a situation where someone leaves the yard and leaves me out of pocket. I am lucky that all my liveries are lovely, and that I am able to pick and choose who comes.
I've had one bad egg, and I was delighted to see the back of her. Had I not had her deposit (which was kinda useful, as she took my wheelbarrow, and my tackroom keys with her!), I would've happily taken the financial hit, just to be rid of her! She actually did me a huge favour, by "marketing" me on FB and picking up some lovely liveries for my waiting list
 

conniegirl

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Well ultimately you could load up and go, but the owner could sue you for breach of contract/debt claim. If you were unhappy you should give your one month's notice. If you want to leave early then pay your livery in accordance with clause 5.3 and off you go!

With the above clause in it, they would be welcome to try. an unfair contract is unenforceable in its entirety.
I'd say let them try, any good solicitor would tear them to shreds in less than an hour.
 
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