Anyone dealt with osteochondritis dissecans (OCD) in horses?

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alfirules

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I made a post about Marco just over a week ago about how he was unhappy with working in an outline, snatching and head tossing, being cold backed and stumbling.

Well, since then, i have had back person out again who said Marco has no co ordination of his feet and his back pain is a secondary symptom of something else, so she said speak to vet.

Vet has been out today and said its most likely osteochondritis dissecans (OCD) but it could also be something neurological like wobblers or it could be kissing spines
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Apparently OCD is treatable with steroid injections, has any else had horses with this problem? I have never heard of it before. I just wondered if Marco is now ever going to make a competition horse, i am having my doubts.

Marco is going for scans next Monday, another week to wait, i just want some answers!!

Any ideas???

thanks for reading
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Sorry to hear you are having problems!

It might be best to wait until you have a diagnosis, otherwise you might be scaring yourself needlessly with things that might never happen. If it is OCD, it depends on how bad it is. I have experience of OCD in the stiffle, the treatment for which is surgery and box rest.
 
my mare has just been diagnosed with ocd in her hocks. she has had her hocks medicated with steroids. i think it depends on the severity as to what the treatment is?
 
How old is Marcos and how big is he?

OCD is most commonly found in young, fast growing. large to very horses (++16.1hh) - frequently Draught horse crosses.

Both of our huge youngsters were checked out for this when they had some odd symptoms at 2.5 years each but it was nothing and they seemed to have grown out of the symptoms at 3.5 when they were both backed.
A friends gorgeous 17.hh 3 year old RID had it in every joint and unfortunately she agreed to have him PTS.

Some say that turning a young horse suffering with this, out in the field for a few years to mature slowly is effective treatment, many come right with time.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I made a post about Marco just over a week ago about how he was unhappy with working in an outline, snatching and head tossing, being cold backed and stumbling.

Well, since then, i have had back person out again who said Marco has no co ordination of his feet and his back pain is a secondary symptom of something else, so she said speak to vet.

Vet has been out today and said its most likely osteochondritis dissecans (OCD) but it could also be something neurological like wobblers or it could be kissing spines
frown.gif



[/ QUOTE ]

Mmm - I have some ideas but they're probably not printable!
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How a vet could grab wobblers, kissing spines OR OCD from that set of symptoms ....

OCD is unlikely to appear in a 7 year old horse who has been in regular work. Most experts think it is there by the time the horse is 2 - if not considerably younger - although it may not show up in mild cases until the horse starts serious work, say as a 4 or 5 year old. The symptoms would normally include heat and swelling in one joint - or possibly 2 - accompanied by lameness. In mild cases it can be treated with steroids/box rest - but surgery to remove bone chips or cartilage fragments is the usual outcome.

True Wobblers also is unlikely to appear in a 7 year old, it will normally show up in a horse of 9-18 months. There are other conditions, including neck injury or toxicity, that will lead to wobbler-type symptoms (stumbling, lack of co-ordination etc.)

And kissing spines show as a sore back! Tenderness when groomed, girthed, ridden. Reluctance to jump, unpredictable behaviour when being ridden and sometimes extreme stiffness.

While professional folk are taking wild stabs at what might be wrong, an experienced 'amateur' might as well have a go. I would GUESS your horse has several problems that have surfaced at about the same time - or one may have led to another. I'd be looking to his teeth for the unhappiness in an outline, snatching and head-tossing; and his feet for the stumbling. The back pain could also cause stumbling.

Or ALL of them could be a schooling issue compounded perhaps by a bit of back pain and poor shoeing!

Nine times out of 10 these sorts of symptoms are due to several relatively minor problems, which cause behaviour problems the rider may not cope with adequately.

A few years ago I had a mare sent home from the hunt kennels because she was 'falling over for no reason'! She had every reason - a change of saddle so her shoulders/withers weren't pinched; a visit from the chiropractor; and GOOD shoeing - combined with a rider that didn't sit on the back of the saddle, resulted in her NOT falling over under any circumstance!!

Far better to FIRST investigate the possibility that 'simple' things aren't causing several symptoms - before looking for a sinister cause for the lot!
 
OCD is diagosed from joint xrays.

Treatment is either surgery to clean up the end of the bone and then box rest or sometimes joint injections and box rest.

If you goodle it you will find a large proportion of warmbloods and thoroughbreds suffer from it.

Success rate is apparently about 80% from surgery but whether that means general soundness or good enough for compeition I dont know.

Apparently there are some top compeition horses who have had it.

I was told its usually found in younsters and can clear up with management of diet. But if the horse is older (I think 4 upwards they often do surgery)

Operation at Liverpool was around £2,000 last year + all other vets bills, pushing £3,000 total. Plus 6 months box rest with walking, then slow ridden then turnout.

Not all insurance companies will pay out for it, and thats not just the usual suspects
 
So agree with JanetGeorge - she puts it so well!!! - yeah look to the little things first,- I would think OCD in 15hh 7 year old TB is highly unlikely.
It was only about 4 years ago the OCD was the "fashionable" affliction of the day - everyones young horses seemed to be "diagnosed" with it and sadly some I know were put down for having unfavourable radiographs.
Next came Joint infections - with much "flushing out of the joint" by certain veterinary practices - I know of someone else who lost her horse this way. There was a time when a bit of cold/hot poulticing would have fixed many, that and a course of antibiotics.
Then we had "Kissing Spines", good God the number of people who had horses with that - so many ops - so many PTS!

I think Navicular ( or Navicular Syndrome as they now call it) was one of the first "popular" diagnosis - Obscure symptoms of intermittant lameness etc etc
Sadly I fell for it all then, mainly through ignorance, and my beautiful boy was PTS.
 
Quite interesting all your responces to this topic!
Having gone through OCD or DJD,call it what you like,and having been round horses more years than I care to remember....the one small point here,and that is these horses to point can be helped!
I had a pony some 25 years ago that had this problem,being a NFx TB,and not much had been that advanced to help these animals with this problem,and sadly was PTS.
Having owned a TB mare who was seen with the problem at 12 years old,having first been seen with high ringbone in both fronts it was a double blow....4 years on she started having problems in the back,due to her back being thrown out due to the problem in her hocks......I and only I made that decision to have her PTS!
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I really would wait for the out come of the scans,and then take it from there...I guess that your Vet has to start some where as to why your horses is not right,and I will keep my fingers crossed for you.....Good Luck with it all.
 
Don't agree with this at all, I spent 6 months with saddlers, chiros, osteos, vets, physios... you name it, we tried it.
Eventually went for x rays and what do you know, horse has wobblers! Treatment could have started 6 months earlier!
While OCD, KS and wobblers usually occur in younger horses, it is not unheard of for a 7 yr old to suddenly show symptons.
Could also be that your horse had this problem as a youngster, was operated on and it's now coming back.
Get it x rayed to save yourself a lot of time, hassle and money in the long run!
 
Gosh! Everyone has different opinions!!

Thank you all for your input.

Marco has had his teeth checked recently, I have had his saddle checked (over the past years i have found a good saddle fitter), He is shod by a good farrier, his feet have improved alot since i bought him.

Maybe i should've been clearer. I wouldn't say all of his symptoms came on suddenly, and i have explained this to the vet.

He was out of work when i bought him (hadn't been ridden for 6 months), he was an ex polo pony.

He was very cold backed when i first got him, he would buck when i got on him. but i put this down to badly fitting saddles and memories of being ridden for polo. When i bought a saddle for him that fit, the cold backedness more or less stopped. He would do it occasionly when he was tense.

He didn't work in an outline at all when i bought him, but after gradually bringing him back to full work and with lots of schooling, he was now working properly in an outline, he had 3 good paces, he was straight and supple, he could do medium trot, counter canter and flying changes and was jumping well.

With no change to any of his routine he has gradually started stumbling, which has got worse recently, and flicking his head, snatching and rushing, hollowing, he is now crooked.

When i bought him he did dish and he has always plaited badly behind when walking down hill.

so depending on how you look at it, you could say he showed symptoms of something when i bought him. Maybe they weren't as bad because he had been out of work. who knows,

But anyway, i know somethings not right now. Its more than just a little thing, he is very unhappy when ridden and when you touch his back when handling him.

thanks again for your experiences and suggestions.

I will let you know what happens after his scans on Monday.
 
For what it's worth my 7 year old presented with stiffness, crookedness, reluctance to work in an outline and what felt like mouth problems, but was actually bilaterally lame in his hinds due to OCD in both stiffles (no one could see the lameness until he was nerve blocked).

Fingers crossed for you that you vet sorts this out really quickly!
 
I know this is an old thread but my horse has just turned 6. She started to look stiff behind and my back lady said it was her just being weak behind and to build it up. After a year and her getting no beeter she started doing little bucks so I called the vet in and she was reffered to Cambridge for tests and scans. They found she has OCD in both stifles which was quite severe. I am still waiting to find out whether the insurance will pay out or not and I am trying to research whether she will return to full competition work or not. When I got her as a 3 yr old she was trained as a show jumper but not cometed. I hadnt done much with her just a bit of achooling and hacking trying to get her 2 be a baby again and not working like an 8 yr old should be as a 3 yr old. She is 16.2 ID x TB and I had her 5* vetted when I got her as a 3 yr old and nothing came up about it. so she started showing signs as a 4 yr old ish.

Kind regards,
Kim
 
kimh88 said:
I know this is an old thread but my horse has just turned 6. She started to look stiff behind and my back lady said it was her just being weak behind and to build it up. After a year and her getting no beeter she started doing little bucks so I called the vet in and she was reffered to Cambridge for tests and scans. They found she has OCD in both stifles which was quite severe. I am still waiting to find out whether the insurance will pay out or not and I am trying to research whether she will return to full competition work or not. When I got her as a 3 yr old she was trained as a show jumper but not cometed. I hadnt done much with her just a bit of achooling and hacking trying to get her 2 be a baby again and not working like an 8 yr old should be as a 3 yr old. She is 16.2 ID x TB and I had her 5* vetted when I got her as a 3 yr old and nothing came up about it. so she started showing signs as a 4 yr old ish.

Kind regards,
Kim
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That is quite a common scenario as most cases don't show up until the horse is in regular hard (ish) work as the joint isn't agrevated otherwise...

It's not something that is easy to pick up on vettings without xrays unless there is significant swelling present.

Did the vet advise the next course of action? what is the prognosis?
 
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