Anyone else getting foals soon

RutlandH2O

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2009
Messages
1,213
Is all that fluff for real?! I hate myself for saying this but she is seriously cute. :D Goes off to Google them, I think I may have seen them in France though.

Oh my :D BIG donkeys :) I have seen them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poitou_donkey
All that fluff is very real! My farrier, and a poster on another forum, thought the foal's coat was a pantomime costume and two men would jump out of it!

The Poitou is seriously large. The French never mention an individual of the breed without also quoting its taille au garrot (height at withers), tour du canon (circumference of cannon), and largeur du sabot (width of hoof). Their legs and feet should be comparable to that of a carriage horse. Their heads are so large that heavy horse head collars are required (I use pony collars on my standards).

These donkeys are not working animals. Their value was/is in producing superior working mules when crossed with a French heavy horse breed called the Mulassiere. The cross is always baudet de Poitou (Poitou stallion) to Mulassiere mare, never the other way round. It is said the best of both animals is achieved this way. Apparently, the horse stallion crossed with the anesse du Poitou produces a vast reduction in quality, so much so as to preclude any discussion of such a union.

There's a lady called "luvmyfilly" on YouTube. She has a ranch in Ontario, Canada. Among her other equines, she has a few Poitous. She has several videos of a 5/6 months old Poitou filly called Bella. She is a knockout! You might enjoy watching her antics.

So, when are you adding a Poitou to your herd?
 

Enfys

Well-Known Member
Joined
11 December 2004
Messages
18,088
Oh, Rutland, Thankyou for that info. I will have to have a look at that:D

:D I just happen to live in Ontario as you know, slight problem though, Ontario is 7 x larger than England! I will find her though ;)

Google is a wonderful thing. Keepsake Gypsy Acres is, according to Map Quest, only 70km away, so just down the road in the grand scheme of things. :)
 
Last edited:
Joined
19 July 2010
Messages
22,612
Faracat: In sunlight the difference between the blacks of both mares is much more evident.
From how they look in this photo - I would say that they are both EE (black) with no agouti or cream. However the mare on the right looks like she might be a fading black. What that means is that her coat is more easily bleached by the sunlight, but there isn't a genetic difference to explain it.

Got there in the end! Cant wait to see what colour he'll be!
I think that he will continue to fade, although his dark spots will remain dark. :)
 
Joined
15 September 2012
Messages
7
Location
australia
OK, that has got to be the most gorgeous donkey I have ever seen! It looks like a soft toy - can't believe it's real!! Love it! I bought a baby donkey from a Basuto man while living temporarily on a mission in Losothu, South Africa. Called it 'Eyor'. It was also REALLY cute but this one beats them all!
 

RutlandH2O

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2009
Messages
1,213
Oh, Rutland, Thankyou for that info. I will have to have a look at that:D

:D I just happen to live in Ontario as you know, slight problem though, Ontario is 7 x larger than England! I will find her though ;)

Google is a wonderful thing. Keepsake Gypsy Acres is, according to Map Quest, only 70km away, so just down the road in the grand scheme of things. :)
Um, I didn't know you are in Ontario. Having read many of your posts, I somehow thought you were in the States.

So, you know the ranch/farm, then? What a coincidence. Their baby, Bella, just screams quality (and naughtiness).
 

RutlandH2O

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2009
Messages
1,213
Thanks, Kirrabo. All Poitou babies look like this. On cuteness and sweet temperament alone, I just don't understand why there aren't millions and millions of them about!

MillionDollar & bryngelenponies: lovely Section Ds. You must be so excited about them!
 

RutlandH2O

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2009
Messages
1,213
Faracat: Thanks for that info. The mare on the right was served by a black Shire stallion with black and a few greys behind him. Her, now, 3 year old gelding son is a very good black. The mare on the left was served by a very dark bay stallion with quite a bit of dark bay behind him. Her black 3 year old gelding son is more like the mare on the right in colour. Very interesting.

I know the answer to the following but I'd like to read your take on the situation. A bay stallion covered a bay mare and their colt foal was originally registered as a bay. All four of the colt's grandparents are bay. As the colt matured, his bay coat turned to "grey." The owner "corrected" his papers, saying he meant grey instead of bay. This colt has now passed his 2 year old inspection. He has considerable white in his "grey" coat. Many of us know that he is, in fact, a roan, a colour completely non-registrable in stallions of this breed. Comments?
 
Joined
19 July 2010
Messages
22,612
A bay stallion covered a bay mare and their colt foal was originally registered as a bay. All four of the colt's grandparents are bay. As the colt matured, his bay coat turned to "grey." The owner "corrected" his papers, saying he meant grey instead of bay. This colt has now passed his 2 year old inspection. He has considerable white in his "grey" coat. Many of us know that he is, in fact, a roan, a colour completely non-registrable in stallions of this breed. Comments?
Is this Shires that we are talking about?

Was the change of colour when he lost his foal coat?

Has his colour been stable since?

Do you have a photo? :)

ETA. You could PM a photo if you don't want to post it. ;)
 

RutlandH2O

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2009
Messages
1,213
It is a Shire. I believe his coat colour changed when the foal coat moulted. His coat has remained stable, considering he's just a colt. I don't have a photo, although there are a couple in the Heavy Horse magazine. There are a number of people calling for DNA tests on the colt. Isn't it a fact that in order for this stallion to be grey, at least one of his parents or grandparents has to be grey?
 
Joined
19 July 2010
Messages
22,612
Grey shows with only one copy of the gene (also shows with two copies, but it doesn't double the effect as cream does) so one of his parents would have been grey. Also greys continue to change, so his colour would not be stable.

It isn't unusual for the foal coat to be slightly different to the other coats following the first moulting.

The true Roan gene is obvious to spot as it leaves the head, legs, mane and tail 'unroaned' of course this is ignoring any white markings.

Other genes can cause roaning, sabino is a common one and as it is in the Shire population, could he actually be a sabino/blagden?
 
Joined
19 July 2010
Messages
22,612
Ok, I forgot to say that if he was a real roan, with the true Roan gene - one of his parents would be roan as it also shows in both the heterozygous and homozygous form like grey.

Here is a bay roan


This is a bay sabino, and this photo shows just how much roaning, sabino can produce.


Sabino is a funny gene. It can cause the tiniest of white markings, right up to a pure white horse (base colour totally covered) and every variation in between those two. It's also hard to test for because it comes in slightly different forms and at the moment, there is only a DNA test for Sabino1.
 
Joined
19 July 2010
Messages
22,612
I googled Bay Shire and this is one of the photos that came up.


This horse is a bay sabino too, it's just that the sabino gene is not 'expressed' as much as on the horse in my post above. You can see the sabino because the white markings have jagged edges and the horse has a pink patch on his lower lip. Both of these are very, very strong indicators of sabino (plus we know that it's rampant throughout the Shire population).
 
Joined
19 July 2010
Messages
22,612
You are correct, if neither of his parents are grey, then he isn't grey.

If he is a sabino/blagden, then his colour is surely an allowed colour (given how common it is)?

I really want to see a photo of him now.
 

RutlandH2O

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2009
Messages
1,213
I just found the most recent photo of the horse in question. His head, tail, mane, part of his neck and upper arms are unroaned. They are black. His sire is black and his dam is bay.
 

elumpshie

Well-Known Member
Joined
5 September 2011
Messages
52
Location
glasgow
Yip after a tough few months of nearly loosing my mare after a c section then making biggest decision to put my foal to sleep I've went and bought a wee filly :) how do I attach a pic
 

RutlandH2O

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2009
Messages
1,213
I don't believe there is provision for sabino/blagden in the permitted Shire horse stallion colour list (black, bay, brown, grey are the only permitted colours). If this horse is not grey (because neither of his parents are grey), he shouldn't be a licensed stallion. For the sake of the breed, the integrity of the society, and anyone looking for a grey stallion for their mares, this animals should be gelded and placed in the non-breeding register.
 

RutlandH2O

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2009
Messages
1,213
Mmmm - this coupled with the fact that neither parent are roans, still sways me towards sabino.
Despite the black colour of the aforementioned body parts, the rest of him is roan (black and lots of white interspersed in the coat). It is a colour expressly forbidden in stallions, as are wall-eyes. Interestingly, mares are permitted to be roan and have wall-eyes. Can roan skip a generation(s)? That's from where the roan comes, then...
 

RutlandH2O

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2009
Messages
1,213
Erm nope :/ how do I get one lol
I've only just learned how to post photos...I'm still not sure how I did it or how to explain how you should go about it.

Can someone a bit more fluent help this person open a Photobucket account and post some photos? I'd surely like to see your new baby.
 
Joined
19 July 2010
Messages
22,612
I don't believe there is provision for sabino/blagden in the permitted Shire horse stallion colour list (black, bay, brown, grey are the only permitted colours). If this horse is not grey (because neither of his parents are grey), he shouldn't be a licensed stallion. For the sake of the breed, the integrity of the society, and anyone looking for a grey stallion for their mares, this animals should be gelded and placed in the non-breeding register.
I actually disagree with you there (if this horse really is a sabino).

Sabino is very, very common in Shires, he is no different genetically from any other Shire with sabino (pretty much all of them). Sabino isn't a colour - it's a modifying gene.

I do agree that he shouldn't be listed as a grey if he isn't, but if he has good confo etc... why would using him be detrimental to the breed?

Maybe this issue needs to be tackled at the top level as there is more understanding RE the genetics now, maybe the colour rules need clarifying. If you said 'no sabinos' every Shire with white markings (that includes any greys that also have sabino) would be out of the breed registry.

It's an interesting topic. :)


ETA. Photo instructions. :D
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=426986
 

RutlandH2O

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 January 2009
Messages
1,213
I agree, Shires are either black sabino, bay sabino, brown sabino, grey sabino. No doubt about it. However, listing this stallion as a grey is completely incorrect because he has no grey behind him in his parents or grandparents. What worries quite a few of us is the fact that the powers that be don't seem to be aware of colour genetics and see what looks like a grey, call it a grey, license it as a grey, but, in fact, it's not a grey, but a roan. By their own rules, stallions can not be roan. End of. Grey Shires are numerically few and far between. Allowing this stallion to serve mares with the thought of producing greys is a complete waste of time, money, and expectations.
 
Top