Anyone else have a horse with Bone Spavin

noblesteed

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Yes mine was diagnosed at 15 in January this year via x rays. After discussion with the vet we went for steroid injections. Could have had tildren but didn't want the colic risk. Horse came back from loan where he jumped and schooled. I changed his work to regular hacking every couple of days. 3-4 times a week with daily turnout until summer when he has lived out. He just hacks with me now, 3 times a week but we hack quickly. Jump the odd log but that's as much as we do. He is slow on hills and I let him take his time if he needs to. Some days are better than others.
Had the injections done again in July as he started to go stiff again. Wanted to wait til laminitis was low-risk as he does get a bit of stretching in his hind feet. Now it's september and he's starting to stiffen up again. Got to make a decision about further treatment as he's only covered on the inurance for a year...
 

applecart14

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Hi, my horse was diagnosed with bone spavin in approx 2007 aged 10. He had inta articular joint injections of HA and steroid, and three lots of tildren before the claim ran out. He was doing fine for a couple of years and then had another top up of steroid. In June 2011 my horse sustained a suspensory injury and had PRP in the near fore around November 2011. However, in order to take the weight off his bad hock off hind he was putting more weight onto his bad suspensory leg, so the decision was made to give him ethanol infusion so in Feb 2012 he underwent this relatively new procedure where the hock joint is injected with ethanol to aid fusion.

Here are the details
http://www.horseandrideruk.com/article.php?id=2414
Here is a paper on the subject
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16649921

My horse is now buteless although he was for many years on bute as recommended by the vet before shoeing, and also when worked hard, ie. jumping, fun rides, etc. This wasn't to mask lameness which has been said by suggested by some people on this forum, it was to help prevent any possible discomfort he may have felt - those of you who have arthritis will know that it can make your joints ache from time to time even if you take painkillers.

Now he gets by on buteless (for his coffin joint arthritis).

THe horse is completely pain free in both hocks and recent xrays taken last year show that complete fusion has taken place.
He went through a rocky road to get to this point but fortunately lots of vet, farrier and physio input has ensured he has stayed sound.

He was back jumping within a month after the fusion on vets advice, and does dressage, fun rides and is doing a ODE in Oct. Last Sunday we did a ten mile fun ride (our third this year) and he was full of running as he always is, and was so excited in the water complex of the XC that he jumped everything I put him at and loved it!

I have moved yards as his paddock was incredibly boggy and he was getting chased on a daily basis by a pack of dogs - obviously this did not help with his suspensory injury. He went on a bute trial and was worse on the three sachets a day but then became sound and the vet thinks he was mechanically lame due to this. He also thinks that the lameness which we never found a cause for was possibly due to the constant stress on his suspensory due to the deep mud and in attempting to escape the dogs. When I moved yards he became sound and had touch wood remained sound.

He loves his jumping, and as long as I pick and choose the ground and surface carefully and don't over jump him (I spend half an hour designing a show jump course or grid and then jump it about four times!) he will stay sound for hopefully a long time to come.

He will let me know when he has had enough and I am sensible enough to take his lead.
There is a lot of life left after spavin has been diagnosed (depending on the extent of the damage) so do not give up or feel too despondent, I was really upset when Bailey got diagnosed at the time, looking back I wish I had known then what I know now.

One thing though, I wish I had bypassed the Tildren and joint injections and just gone straight for the fusion with alchohol.

PS I am sure I will get shot down in flames (yet again zzzzzzz).
 
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PolarSkye

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PS I am sure I will get shot down in flames (yet again zzzzzzz).

Applecart - you get flack because people don't feel that competing a horse on bute is fair - on the horse or the other competitors - playing the victim doesn't deflect from that fact.

I don't know you - I don't know your horse - and it probably isn't any of my business what you do - but when you post on a public forum that you have competed a horse on bute, don't expect people not to have a problem/comment.

I am glad to hear that Bailey is sound . . . I really hope that he stays that way . . . but I stand behind my sorrow that you would bute a horse to compete.

P
 

PolarSkye

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And how have you managed the horse workwise.

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack your thread . . . to answer your question, my boy has mild spavins in one hock (possibly two - we only know about the one because he had an injury and it needed to be x-rayed which showed mild spavins). He's 15 now and my vet has said that the spavins are very mild and nothing more than he would expect to see in a horse of Kal's age, size, conformation and with the same work/competition history.

He can be a teensy bit stiff in his hocks if he hasn't worked for a while, but we manage that by making sure gets plenty of chance to warm up well before he starts work, NEVER works on hard or deep ground, is cooled down/walked off properly and isn't overjumped. We aim to have him almost on a "cross training" regime so that he works/flexes as much of himself as possible - pole work, hacking (incorporating hills), long and low, lateral work, etc. He gets a supplement of pure MSM and is fed a diet very high in oil. Lastly, the work he does is designed to keep his core strong so he carries himself well (not at the moment, obviously, he is just coming back into work after a suspensory injury so is weak - but that's where we'll be aiming to get him back to).

I know people have had success with feeding turmeric - I've not tried it to be honest. But you asked about work . . . and I hope what I've shared wrt my boy has helped.

P
 

Red-1

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My first pony had bone spavin back in 1983. Back then the treatment was to pin fire, and we did this, but it made no difference. These days there are a whole host of other treatments that were not available back in the day. I believe firing is now not legal (?) but back in 1983 it was what was recommended by the top vet hospital. It was awful, and as I said I don't even think it helped. How times change.......

What did work was 12 months turned out (just in at night in winter) followed by a year walking out hacking. After that he did about 10 more years sound, until melanomas got him when he was the wrong side of 30!

Right up to the end he was actively schooling and even jumping small jumps at shows. I think the long rest and controlled return to work enabled him to fuse the joint over time, without needing to drug.

Under vets recommendation I would consider using drugs to do controlled exercise to enable fusion of the affected bones in the hock, but I would not compete on bute as that is cheating (IMO). I would also restrict it to steady work so as not to strain other structures while the changes took place (as in no jumping/galloping/intensive schooling). I am sure your vet would advise.

Good luck with your horse, and I have also known other horses be injected and rested, then return in a controlled manner to useful work. Not rushing seems to be key.

Edited to say - we also moved yards so he had turnout where he was not in a big group as he had been run around in the previous field.
 
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old hand

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Have a ten year old warmblood, diagnosed December 2013. Advised to shoe with supportive shoes, cause diagnosed a medio lateral imbalance of feet. Told to work through by two vets and agreed due to previous experience ( am old so have seen a few horses with them in my time). Upped magnesium and linestone flour and worked hard on a soft surface. horse sound within three months and started jumping in March. has been BS showjumping since May. still sound and not stiff although hind leg action has changed slighty due to spavins , he does have two which helps with prognosis. in my experience once fused they are not a problem until horse is in late teens and many horses have them unbenown to their owners anyway. My old vet said they were just a response to work and provided the foot is loading correctly and does not do much roadwork they should not affect their competitive work. very good farrier required and would not use injections, they throw up a dope on test anyway and are not proven to work. to my mind any compromise of the joint with a foreign body will promote arthritis. Do not know one that has had the injections that has stayed in full work but plenty that have just been worked through that have. My vet was skeptical at first but is very happy with the horse now. He is not stiff after shows and stands four square in the field and is turned out with access to a stable and chooses to stay out most of the time. I was advised not to let him stand in if possible. he is tough nut though and thoroughly enjoys his work so that helped as he was 2/10 lame to start with. We just made sure that as we upped the work he did not relapse, so started a fittening programme slowly and did not give him any bute, both vets advised this would remove the inflammation and stop his body repairing the damage. Did bandage up to the hocks at night when it was cold and this kept him mobile.
 

joycec

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Can I just point out that it isn't cheating to compete on bute unless it's against the rules? I don't and never have, but it would not be cheating at any riding club event or unaffiliated dressage that I have been to. There are also many, many hunters which would be shot tomorrow if their owners could not use Bute.

Spavins produce a mechanical lameness due to pain in the joint. Bute removes the pain and the lameness. It does not mask the lameness, it removes it. Spavins fuse more quickly if the horse is kept in work. To do that without being cruel, you have to remove the pain.
 

Red-1

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Can I just point out that it isn't cheating to compete on bute unless it's against the rules? I don't and never have, but it would not be cheating at any riding club event or unaffiliated dressage that I have been to.

Horse and hound seem to report it is cheating to compete Riding Club on bute.....

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/downshire-riding-club-eliminated-from-championships-after-positive-bute-test/



The BHS seem to think it is cheating too..... From their guidance at competing in a BRC championship from the BHS website......

"Never make sudden
changes to your horse’s diet and never at a competition. You must also take into
consideration any medication which your horse may be on. There are strict rules
covering the substances which you can use to treat your horse when competing. There
are many prohibitive substances, including Bute, which could result in you be
eliminated from the competition if they are found in your horse’s system during the
competition. Make sure you adhere strictly to the withdrawal periods. If you are in any
doubt whether you are using a prohibitive substance check with your vet."
 

joycec

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Horse and hound seem to report it is cheating to compete Riding Club on bute.....

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/downshire-riding-club-eliminated-from-championships-after-positive-bute-test/



The BHS seem to think it is cheating too..... From their guidance at competing in a BRC championship from the BHS website......

"Never make sudden
changes to your horse’s diet and never at a competition. You must also take into
consideration any medication which your horse may be on. There are strict rules
covering the substances which you can use to treat your horse when competing. There
are many prohibitive substances, including Bute, which could result in you be
eliminated from the competition if they are found in your horse’s system during the
competition. Make sure you adhere strictly to the withdrawal periods. If you are in any
doubt whether you are using a prohibitive substance check with your vet."


Yes, exactly as said.

If it's against the rules, it's cheating, but there are plenty of local competitions that you can enter around where I live where it is not against the rules.

Not all Riding Clubs are BRC affiliated and even those that are often have no rule that Bute is not allowed for Club competitions. It's Regionals and Nationals that have the strict rules, and that is what is being referred to in your quotes.
 
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culteuchar

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My made has slight spavin in her hocks and is 2/10 lame. Treated with tildren intravenusly a fortnight ago and had bar shoes at front and lateral extensions at the back. I am not convinced about tildren and feel it may be a pretty useless treatment but it may be too early to make a judgement. However I have noticed she is lame only for a few strides and then comes sound and if I keep her going straight she seems fine. My own thoughts are that the shoes have made as much of a difference than the tildren. No one including the vet has been able to give me a definitive answer on how long tildren takes to see improvement if indeed it will make any. There is only a very slight chance of colic with it but it is very expensive and I think possibly very overrated but if I am wrong I will put it on the forum.
 

chocolatepony

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Hi, my boy was diagnosed with spavins when I got him 4 years ago (at 7 years old). I am careful about what surface I ride him on. He is on glucosamine as a joint supplement. He had his hocks injected and a course or adequan 18 months ago because I noticed him struggling to bring his inside leg through in the canter transition and canter half pass. He has never needed bute. He is currently sound (long may it last) even after flexions and was competing affiliated medium dressage before he had a short break for me to have a baby! He's just coming back into work now and looks good!

In terms of work, when he is competing he schools 3-4 days a week minimum and hacks/lunges 1 other day, has usually 2 rest days. He goes out all day to keep him moving. I don't jump him much because neither of us are any good at it!
 
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