lucylocket
Well-Known Member
Says it all really. Anyone out there, I would like to know if there is life after diagnosis. Thanks
Anyone got a horse with navicular in work?
- Thread starter lucylocket
- Start date
Louby
Well-Known Member
Think it depends on how severe it is but theres definately life after Navic for lots although it may not be eventing or jumping. Read that going barefoot works for some horses or remedial shoeing and theres veterinary treatment available but I think its expensive and theres no guarantee.
Zaf
Well-Known Member
I hunted one for years after he was de-nerved (not sure if they do it now) and a friend showjumped hers that had pretty severe navicular for a long time after diagnosis - he was on warfarin - think she had to have regular blood tests with that treatment but the horse went to grade A and never seemed to have problems competing.
I'm sure there are more efficient treatments nowdays, I'm thinking back at least 25 years!
I'm sure there are more efficient treatments nowdays, I'm thinking back at least 25 years!
lizzie_liz
Well-Known Member
It depends on whether the horse has syndrome or disease. I have just looked out my horses vet report from the Animal Health Trust, Newmarket.
Here she was diagnosed with navicular syndrome in both front feet in 2002.
Now in 2007 she is back to competing at BD (novice level) and unaffliated SJ (80cm and 90cm). We took her to the Trailblazer SJ finals last summer as well.
She is on no supplement and only front shoes.
Here she was diagnosed with navicular syndrome in both front feet in 2002.
Now in 2007 she is back to competing at BD (novice level) and unaffliated SJ (80cm and 90cm). We took her to the Trailblazer SJ finals last summer as well.
She is on no supplement and only front shoes.
welshstar
Well-Known Member
i do! He's was diagnosed about 3 years ago and has got a little worse, he's 19 now. This year we have just started putting egg bar shoes during the summer for extra support during the hard ground (not that there is much this year!) He quite regularly competes in pony club ODE's up to 3ft, like wise with show jumping and cross country. He has signed little signs of problems other than a bit of lintermittant lameness which can crop up at points but doesn't last long. Obviously i have to be a bit stricter on stuff like ground, he's never trotted on roads and he isn't jumped a lot on hard ground.
To put it into perspective, he has cushings (with regular lami), huge sarcoids and navicular and still keeps powering on so yes i would say there is life after diagnosis
To put it into perspective, he has cushings (with regular lami), huge sarcoids and navicular and still keeps powering on so yes i would say there is life after diagnosis
lucylocket
Well-Known Member
Great to hear of these horses. Mine been lame on and off for about 3 years, had various investigations and diagnosed with arthritis but just found out he was diagnosed 7 years ago with navicular with previous owner! I must admit I had my suspicions but vet dismissed it. Been really down this week
as arthritis bad enough but was told to keep him working but didnt know what to do now, and my vet on hols for 2 weeks.
as arthritis bad enough but was told to keep him working but didnt know what to do now, and my vet on hols for 2 weeks.
ihatework
Well-Known Member
Yes I have, he's been out SJ at about 1m this summer, only on a surface though, and has been having regular dressage and showjumping lessons.
Unfortunately his eventing days are now over, I will shortly be loaning him as a hack/dressage horse
Unfortunately his eventing days are now over, I will shortly be loaning him as a hack/dressage horse
kirstyhen
Well-Known Member
Havent got a horse with navicular, but as far as i was aware syndrome is just a new name for the disease as it covers more causes. A women at my yard is convinced her horse hasnt got navicular because the vet called it syndrome but they are the same thing. From my limited knowledge, injecting tildren (think thats what its called) is supposed to be a good way forward. Its a systemic corticolsteriod. The womens horse at our yard is competing xc, show jumping etc, think thats what he was treated with. Managing it correctly will give you the best results so do your homework!!
My boy has high non-articular ringbone in his right hind, as long as we dont do too much on hard ground (not a problem at the mo!) hes fine!
Dont worry too much, there is life after diagnosis!!!
My boy has high non-articular ringbone in his right hind, as long as we dont do too much on hard ground (not a problem at the mo!) hes fine!
Dont worry too much, there is life after diagnosis!!!
ihatework
Well-Known Member
hmmm ... navicular disease and navicular syndrome are actually a bit different.
Navicualr syndrome is more a term for pain in that general area, the cause of that pain can be for different reasons and are often difficult to diagnose.
Tildren is actually a bisphosphonate derivitive and I believe it's action is to alter the balance in osteoblast/osteoclast activity. Tildren certainly has been shown to help some navicular cases but it isn't a cure unfortunately and doesn't work on all horses.
Navicualr syndrome is more a term for pain in that general area, the cause of that pain can be for different reasons and are often difficult to diagnose.
Tildren is actually a bisphosphonate derivitive and I believe it's action is to alter the balance in osteoblast/osteoclast activity. Tildren certainly has been shown to help some navicular cases but it isn't a cure unfortunately and doesn't work on all horses.
Touchwood
Well-Known Member
Navicular syndrome is used to describe navicular where no bony changes are shown. Is it also hugely misdiagnosed, and far too quick to be given the name IMHO.
Following my mare's diagnosis, I am more and more convinced that navicular syndrome is totally reversable and cureable - it seems to mostly be caused by poor shoeing and trimming and/or weak soft structures in the feet.
I do believe the best way to tackle this is barefoot, and it is seeing a huge amount of success in rehabilitating so called navicular cases. Having been through the remedial shoeing process myself, I hate egg bars with a passion - all they do is allow the foot to weaken even further as it is not being used, and encourage an even more upright foot and toe first landing - the exact CAUSE of the heel pain for these horses.
My mare has been barefoot for a year now, and has gone from being crippled, to being totally sound (funnily enough almost as soon as her shoes came off and the feet started to strengthen). She is out at elementary level dressage, hacks out over any surface, trot on roads and does pretty much anything. My vet was very sceptical about the barefoot route and thought I was barmy but has been forced to eat her words - as many others now are too.
TBH - I'm not even convinced that bony changes carry that much significance, as a huge number of horses show bony changes to the navicular bone and yet are sound. I believe the key lies in rehabilitating the soft structures.
Following my mare's diagnosis, I am more and more convinced that navicular syndrome is totally reversable and cureable - it seems to mostly be caused by poor shoeing and trimming and/or weak soft structures in the feet.
I do believe the best way to tackle this is barefoot, and it is seeing a huge amount of success in rehabilitating so called navicular cases. Having been through the remedial shoeing process myself, I hate egg bars with a passion - all they do is allow the foot to weaken even further as it is not being used, and encourage an even more upright foot and toe first landing - the exact CAUSE of the heel pain for these horses.
My mare has been barefoot for a year now, and has gone from being crippled, to being totally sound (funnily enough almost as soon as her shoes came off and the feet started to strengthen). She is out at elementary level dressage, hacks out over any surface, trot on roads and does pretty much anything. My vet was very sceptical about the barefoot route and thought I was barmy but has been forced to eat her words - as many others now are too.
TBH - I'm not even convinced that bony changes carry that much significance, as a huge number of horses show bony changes to the navicular bone and yet are sound. I believe the key lies in rehabilitating the soft structures.
GinaB
Well-Known Member
I ride a 24 yo mare who has navicular. I don't know the ins and outs of hers but we go out hacking every weekend (she gets lunged during the week to keep her ticking over) and I do take her into the school and have a wee canter and a jump as well. She also has arthiritis though that limits her. She is shod differently and is also on Cortaflex for her joints.
lucylocket
Well-Known Member
Feel a bit better now. Im really peed off with the fact that Ive spent thousands of £s and a lot of time and heartache trying to find out what was wrong, pity owner didnt fess up to start with
angiebaby
Well-Known Member
I am also in the same position, although I have spent hundreds not thousands. Basically I don't think the vets know what it is thats caused my pony to be lame for 10 weeks. Several nerve blocks and 2 x-rays, this is what they say,"signs of navicular" Where do you go from here. One person says take off the shoes, vet says egg bars, like Mcduff I'm totaly peed off as all I want is for him to be pain free.
Touchwood
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I am also in the same position, although I have spent hundreds not thousands. Basically I don't think the vets know what it is thats caused my pony to be lame for 10 weeks. Several nerve blocks and 2 x-rays, this is what they say,"signs of navicular" Where do you go from here. One person says take off the shoes, vet says egg bars, like Mcduff I'm totaly peed off as all I want is for him to be pain free.
[/ QUOTE ]
All I will say is that I will never ever ever have another horse of mine in egg bars. They are a temporary fix and just allow the foot to weaken even further. I just wish the vets would stop recommending them and look at the methods that are actually having long term success!
I am also in the same position, although I have spent hundreds not thousands. Basically I don't think the vets know what it is thats caused my pony to be lame for 10 weeks. Several nerve blocks and 2 x-rays, this is what they say,"signs of navicular" Where do you go from here. One person says take off the shoes, vet says egg bars, like Mcduff I'm totaly peed off as all I want is for him to be pain free.
[/ QUOTE ]
All I will say is that I will never ever ever have another horse of mine in egg bars. They are a temporary fix and just allow the foot to weaken even further. I just wish the vets would stop recommending them and look at the methods that are actually having long term success!
Tia
Well-Known Member
I know how you feel. One of my beautiful mares who had always been totally sound and healthy whilst in my ownership slowly became lame about 5 months into her pregnancy. The vet diagnosed it as acute navicular - I was quite deflated to hear this as she is such a great little mare. Anyway I contacted her previous owners and they said that she had never had this before and no problems during her pregnancies with them. Where did it come from? Most odd, however vet and farrier colluded and farrier trimmed her in a different fashion and now she has mobility back again. Vet said not to worry as he predicts that once she has foaled and shed her excess weight, that she will become sound again. Time will tell I guess but already I am seeing a massive difference in her moving around and she is very almost sound (I'm saying this in a whisper as don't want to jinx anything
.)
angiebaby
Well-Known Member
The problem I have is my pony was (before I had him) extremely overweight and laminitic. So the cause could be weight bearing. He is totaly, and I mean hopping lame without shoes, whether I could manage just with fronts is something I will look into. For now he is just turned out in a small paddock for rest and will be trimmed next week.
Vicki_Krystal
Well-Known Member
my showjumper was lame on and off from october last year til around april.
He competed foxhunter at scope last year and just didnt feel right so i gave him a month off afterwards.
he carried on being on and off lame for another month so i got the vet ( i had rung them and they kept saying it probably wasnt worth coming out ) but i had enough and got them out anyway.
he was diagnosed with ligiment damage to his knee and box rested.
the vets piddled around with him up til may this year when i demanded he went to a hospital as i wanted to know once and for all what was wrong with him.
with him being lame for so long i knew i probably would never ride him again.
His stay at the AHT revealed shocking findings.
Navicular in both fore feet, with a slightly chipped bone in his off fore and damage to the super digital flexor tendon in his near fore.
and this poor horse had been rested with a knee injury??
he is now retired on danilon to the field and is amazingly happy and gallops round the field with his friends.
I myself can feel for you guys that have poured money into horses with navicular.
it is obviously something that some vets just have no idea how to treat it
He competed foxhunter at scope last year and just didnt feel right so i gave him a month off afterwards.
he carried on being on and off lame for another month so i got the vet ( i had rung them and they kept saying it probably wasnt worth coming out ) but i had enough and got them out anyway.
he was diagnosed with ligiment damage to his knee and box rested.
the vets piddled around with him up til may this year when i demanded he went to a hospital as i wanted to know once and for all what was wrong with him.
with him being lame for so long i knew i probably would never ride him again.
His stay at the AHT revealed shocking findings.
Navicular in both fore feet, with a slightly chipped bone in his off fore and damage to the super digital flexor tendon in his near fore.
and this poor horse had been rested with a knee injury??
he is now retired on danilon to the field and is amazingly happy and gallops round the field with his friends.
I myself can feel for you guys that have poured money into horses with navicular.
it is obviously something that some vets just have no idea how to treat it
custard
Well-Known Member
LOve your sig, LMAO!
angiebaby
Well-Known Member
Touchwood, what would you recommend then? bearing in mind my ponies navicular is in his hind feet, not front!
And about how long are you talking before becoming "right"
I'm open to any suggestions really, he's getting very bored, he is used to being ridden everyday for 2-3 hours.
And about how long are you talking before becoming "right"
I'm open to any suggestions really, he's getting very bored, he is used to being ridden everyday for 2-3 hours.
lizzie_liz
Well-Known Member
If it is navicular behind I would remove the back shoes, my mare has front shoes only, she became sound when we removed the hind shoes.
Honey was turned away fro about 4 months before we started working her, we were never expecting to ride her again.
However every horse is different so every horse will come right in different time periods
Honey was turned away fro about 4 months before we started working her, we were never expecting to ride her again.
However every horse is different so every horse will come right in different time periods
Touchwood
Well-Known Member
It really doesn't have any bearing on whether it is front or back.
I am of the firm view, that while some horses cannot cope without shoes on roads, or stones etc (not without some serious conditioning work), if a horse is lame, in a field without shoes there is something serious going on in the feet anyway, and it should be addressed.
Boots and pads will make the horse comfortable and start to repair and rehabilitate the feet.
My personal experience is that they start to come right and move better very very quickly, my mare had 1 month out of ridden work, but was lunging in the school immediately. I will add that in normal shoes she was CRIPPLED, there is no other way to describe it, in egg bars and wedges she came sound for a short amount of time (which she would, they all do, their heels have been numbed). I just found the change in the shape of her feet and her movement in egg bars disturbing, there is no way something so un natural can be right.
I sincerely hope I am not coming across as some hippy, as that couldn't be further from the truth, but my frustration with the majority of the veterinary profession over their refusal to look at up to date evidence of horses coming sound after navicular diagnosis drives me crackers!
I am of the firm view, that while some horses cannot cope without shoes on roads, or stones etc (not without some serious conditioning work), if a horse is lame, in a field without shoes there is something serious going on in the feet anyway, and it should be addressed.
Boots and pads will make the horse comfortable and start to repair and rehabilitate the feet.
My personal experience is that they start to come right and move better very very quickly, my mare had 1 month out of ridden work, but was lunging in the school immediately. I will add that in normal shoes she was CRIPPLED, there is no other way to describe it, in egg bars and wedges she came sound for a short amount of time (which she would, they all do, their heels have been numbed). I just found the change in the shape of her feet and her movement in egg bars disturbing, there is no way something so un natural can be right.
I sincerely hope I am not coming across as some hippy, as that couldn't be further from the truth, but my frustration with the majority of the veterinary profession over their refusal to look at up to date evidence of horses coming sound after navicular diagnosis drives me crackers!
derricks
Well-Known Member
Im off to the vets on Fri for xrays, suspected navicular. If it is then Im tempted to go down the barefoot route. At the mo my mare is lame even on a surface. She is currently in NB shoes which have kept her sound for 2 years. My farrier has said that the next step would be NB egg bar shoes and wedges however I am not convinced that this wll be the best thing to do.
Wish me luck....
Wish me luck....
Touchwood
Well-Known Member
Good luck. PM me if I can be of any help.
charlie76
Well-Known Member
I had to have my horse pts with navicular last year having tried everything- nailox, eggbars, cytek, nbs, barefoot, shockwave therapy, bute, cortaflex- I spent 3 years and well over £5k trying to get him right but he got to the point where he was lame in the field so I called it a day- he wasn't even 10 yrs old. In the time I spent helping him he would go for a while and be good, I could ride him and compete him in dressage on a surface( I never jumped him again- tried once and he was very lame the next day) but the bad days began to outweigh the good days.
We also had another navicular horse on the yard that was pts last week- he had the same treatment as mine plus tildren.
Each case is different depending on the extent of the problem, the horses conformation, movement and his pain barrier. What works for one may or may not work for another. Having been through this with my boy I would be devastated if it happened to any other horses I own as it is a very frustrating lameness.
Usually when they nerve block one foot the horse will trot lame on the other as its in both feet.
If you want tp PM me feel free- good luck with yours.
We also had another navicular horse on the yard that was pts last week- he had the same treatment as mine plus tildren.
Each case is different depending on the extent of the problem, the horses conformation, movement and his pain barrier. What works for one may or may not work for another. Having been through this with my boy I would be devastated if it happened to any other horses I own as it is a very frustrating lameness.
Usually when they nerve block one foot the horse will trot lame on the other as its in both feet.
If you want tp PM me feel free- good luck with yours.
angiebaby
Well-Known Member
Thats a serious amounts of money! Don't intend to spend that amount of time and money, seems heartless,but I can't afford to have a horse that can't be ridden, and there's so much I want to do.
My ponies been lame for 3 months now and is no different from day one, even on soft ground.
Farrier has been out and trimmed his feet, cut the toe back and rolled it. (the difference in size of his back feet is quite alarming) Having watched him in the paddock, I can see how uncomfortable he is, sometimes even tripping over on his back feet. I do want to help him as much as I can, but where do you draw the line?
My ponies been lame for 3 months now and is no different from day one, even on soft ground.
Farrier has been out and trimmed his feet, cut the toe back and rolled it. (the difference in size of his back feet is quite alarming) Having watched him in the paddock, I can see how uncomfortable he is, sometimes even tripping over on his back feet. I do want to help him as much as I can, but where do you draw the line?