Anyone have a VERY short backed horse? Saddle suggestions needed.

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now_loves_mares

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I have posted recently about my mare being a bit of an unpredictable cowbag sometimes, and I have suspicions about my saddle. I have had it professionally fitted and been told it fits, but I can't see how it can! My mare is only 15hhish, has a fairly typical TB wither, and wears a 5'9" rug - insanely short. But the saddle, which I already owned, is 17.5". Logic tells me it must be too long :confused:

Saddler told me it technically fits, but it is borderline. But any times she's behaved badly have been in that saddle, hence my gut feeling. I really like the saddle (it's a Stirlingshire Saddlery patriot, made by ideal, it's a nice compromise as it's close contact but with better support for the horse in the panels. The thing is, the smallest size they make is 17". Sorry for the daft question, but is a half inch really going to make that much difference, or am I going to have to go for a 16.5"?

http://www.idealsaddle.com/catalogue/saddle/38

If that's the case, where would I find such a small saddle, that would also fit an adult! I'm not tall but do have a fairly long knee to hip length, so need somewhere to put my thighs. For a while I was riding in a borrowed GP that was about 16.5", with flair. She always behaved ok in that; it might have been sold now, but in any case I didn't feel very secure in it due to my legs going over the front of it.

Eventer that I have been having a few lessons with has recommend the Amerigo saddle fitter for the North. Any other ideas or suggestions?

Sorry, I seem incapable of doing a short post. The title really says it all :p
 
I'm not sure how small they go but wow saddles can tailer the panels to be shorter than the seat so they fit you and the horse. Might be worth looking at?
 
My 13h and 14h mares wear 17" saddles, but with shorter panels - the other thing they both have is saddles with very short tree points. Long tree points made the 14h one nearly deck me!!!
 
I would consider getting a second opinion on the fit before heading off down a possible wild goose chase - yes some brands can put on a shorter panel, others can extend the cantle on some models but ultimately you need to find a saddle that fits in all ways, and focusing on one that is shorter might not bring you the solution. It may be something else about it that she does not like, and a good fitter will try different models, shim pads etc to experiment to see what she likes, rather than just telling you that it is a text book fit (I'm assuming this is how it went, as you've not expanded on what the fitting consisted of).

How tall and heavy are you? If you're not that tall then a 17" or a 16.5" might be fine, a 17.5" is often too much for a more petite woman. If you have a small hip measurement and a long femur and you do need the smaller seat size then that shouldn't be a problem - a more forward flap with the blocks in the right place (high up out of the way of the knee) or on velcro, should give you that space. Though looking at the Patriot is is pretty forward cut already. It is a flat tree by the look of it, any chance it could be too low in the cantle once it has been fitted to a high wither?

Ultimately the best solution for where a rider needs a good deal more space than the horse can accommodate is a flexi panel saddle - I fit ReactorPanels but others are available.
 
My 14.2 is in a 5'9 rug and he is also in a 17'" saddle.
Best bet might be just to get another saddler out for their opinion?
 
Ps - for stupidly short, my almost 17hh younger horse fits easily into a 6'3 rug, every year since he was 3 I am waiting for him to outgrow them but no. He's doing his best to tear them apart mind, he's obviously decided rugs over 2 years old should be disposed of and replaced!
 
Thanks all - so much to take in! I hate feeling like I need to be an expert in everything. Surely that's what I'm supposed to pay people for :confused:

I'm 5'6" and 8st, quite lanky build. Yes I do sometimes feel I need a smaller seat, but with the forward cut for my thigh.
 
I had the panels of my jump saddle made smaller, they are either 16.5 or 17 inches on a 17 and a half inch saddle!!

I can feel your pain, my 16.3hh mare can happily wear a 5'9 rug!!
 
I have a 16.5 jeffries gp on my 14.2, she's a 6'/6'3 rug. I have ridiculously long legs & for everyday riding its fine, I am slightly built & ride at dressage length/ no stirrups unless jumping. When she used to compete I had 17.5 albions to accommodate my leg. My friends cob is 13.2 & a 5'9 rug, his saddle is a 17.5, saddler said he could take an 18 if he needed it.
 
I have a 17hh tb who is in 6'3" rugs and a 17.5" saddle. We have to have that saddle as I would struggle to ride him in anything smaller.
I bought a Kieffer second hand as I knew that the tree could be altered and shaped to fit him. He has a prolite pad and plenty of sheepskin and is comfortable in this. It's not what you would call close contact, but we had been through some real battles to get here, and at the moment, here is working ok.
 
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There are a few brands that make adult pony saddles, they are made on a 16.5 and 17 inch tree with 17 & 17 & 1/2 seats with longer and or wider saddle flaps. Riding ponies myself i originally had the problem of too big saddles but i now have 3 adult pony saddles that fit perfect.

Martin Wilkinson jump saddle built on an Ideal jump saddle tree
GFS Genesis GP
Saddle Company working hunter
 
sbloom said:
I would consider getting a second opinion on the fit before heading off down a possible wild goose chase - yes some brands can put on a shorter panel, others can extend the cantle on some models but ultimately you need to find a saddle that fits in all ways, and focusing on one that is shorter might not bring you the solution. It may be something else about it that she does not like, and a good fitter will try different models, shim pads etc to experiment to see what she likes, rather than just telling you that it is a text book fit (I'm assuming this is how it went, as you've not expanded on what the fitting consisted of).

How tall and heavy are you? If you're not that tall then a 17" or a 16.5" might be fine, a 17.5" is often too much for a more petite woman. If you have a small hip measurement and a long femur and you do need the smaller seat size then that shouldn't be a problem - a more forward flap with the blocks in the right place (high up out of the way of the knee) or on velcro, should give you that space. Though looking at the Patriot is is pretty forward cut already. It is a flat tree by the look of it, any chance it could be too low in the cantle once it has been fitted to a high wither?

Ultimately the best solution for where a rider needs a good deal more space than the horse can accommodate is a flexi panel saddle - I fit ReactorPanels but others are available.
Click to expand...

Thanks, a very useful post. Correct, it was an assessment of the fit of this saddle, rather than a full on, try loads of things. It apparently fits well in terms of wither clearance, points, front/back balance, it's just the length. Though who knows with horses. That said I still can't ignore my gut feeling on this one.

What is a flexi panel saddle? :confused: Honestly it was easier when you just had two choices. Brown or black.
 
Leg_end said:
I'm not sure how small they go but wow saddles can tailer the panels to be shorter than the seat so they fit you and the horse. Might be worth looking at?
Click to expand...

Thats exactly what I did with my very short backed horse. The first saddle I had was a Kings saddle which I had professionally fitted and horse was fine for a while but after a while started going oddly, I went to a new fitter who said the saddle never fitted and was too long in the seat for him. So I ended up getting a WOW - with 17" panels for me and a 16" seat for him, its worked out perfectly and he's been happy since. Obviously WOW's are expensive but I bought all my parts 2nd hand and got my fitter to put it all together for me.
 
I have a 14.1 that takes a 5ft6 rug and now has a 16inch saddle. I had a saddle made for him and his chiropractor picked up that the saddle was too long, it was a 17inch.
I was lucky and its an Ideal saddle and they did it with shorter panels as i'm only 5ft but the bigger panels just swamped him.
 
My OH has always found my 17inch whitaker doppiata saddle a great fit on the two very short coupled racehorses we have had in training. One was 16hh with no real with and a very round barrel shape for a tb. another is our 16hh four year old who is short coupled and very arsey when he is not happy about things. we found the berneys exercise saddle too long on his back so oh pinched my jumping saddle and horse never looked back.
 
gillianfleming said:
I have a 14.1 that takes a 5ft6 rug and now has a 16inch saddle. I had a saddle made for him and his chiropractor picked up that the saddle was too long, it was a 17inch.
I was lucky and its an Ideal saddle and they did it with shorter panels as i'm only 5ft but the bigger panels just swamped him.
Click to expand...

Who did the alterations? Also who was the chiro you use (notice you are midlothian)

So general consensus seems to be that 17.5" is probably too long for the length of her back, judging by the general size of horse/saddle combinations you've all given.
 
Can I ask who you used to check the fit of the saddle?

I'm in a similar part of the world as you and know that saddle fitters in this area can be a bit hit or miss.

For a chiro/physio I highly recommend Lisa Cleeton - she will be able to check your mare over to see if she has any sore spots or tension potentially caused by the saddle.

In terms of checking the saddle itself, the grange near edinburgh have a pressure pad that they can use to check the fit - it shows up the pressure points across the whole saddle area while you ride so that you can see exactly what is happening underneath you - I found it really interesting and useful when I got my boys saddles checked last year.
 
Ah it was Lisa I used last time, then I had her seen again when she was over at Olivia Wilmot's whilst I was on holiday. She had to get the physio to her and used someone else, who happened to have Lisa shadowing her that day! So will happily try her again.

Saddler - the usual one, the one that is at all the events. Yes, hit or miss, like all of them it seems. It is really hard to find one that everyone agrees on, although they tend to get more positives than negatives. Not heard great things about Grange though :confused: Pressure pad might be interesting though!
 
I really rate Elise at Grange, she's very good, i had too much time wasted by Stirlingshire to ever use them again.
It was Ideal who made it to the specification that i wanted, again it was Elise that looked into it, we tried Barnsby, Black Country and Ideal and it was them that gave us the most options.
My chiropractor is Fiona MacLellan, she's also a trained vet and rides to a high standard, she was reccommended by a friend and now a few people i know use her, she has made a huge difference to my boys cold back.
http://www.vetchiro.co.uk/
 
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Wow saddles are built on a carbon fibre tree with various components meaning they are adjustable (with purchase of new components), most have Flair.

ReactorPanel:

http://www.reactorpanel.com

I have a client with an Icelandic pony that I have fitted with a 17" RP, the rider is 15 stones, the pony is very long at 13.3, taking I'd say a 5'9 rug minimum, but can only take a 15" little showing saddle!

The main brand I ft has the option to extend the cantle which is what most of these "adult/pony" saddles have, it's a simple addition which some people find gives them more room in the seat. You can have a slightly larger (to acommodate long legs) or slightly smaller (to suit a smaller pony) flap to suit.

Pressure testing is not the be all and end all in my mind - it is not hard to see if a saddle is down at the cantle, putting more pressure at the back. A good eye and a good ear to listen to the horse and the rider is all that is needed. Pressure testing - machine must be calibrated and the information must be interpreted. WHY is there more pressure at X, Y Z and how do we reduce it? It is still ultimately down to the skill of the fitter.

I have used a Port Lewis impression pad and found it actually made the saddle move to one side, gave an erroneous pressure reading which wasn't there when I removed the pad. It would have been easy to say that the saddle was the problem, seeing massively asymmetric pressure readings, but it was the pad actually causing the saddle to be perched and to move.
 
My friend's Fell Pony has a WOW with the shorter panels and a bigger seat. He's had it for a lot of years now and I competed him successfully to Medium level in affiliated dressage.

Pics of him about half way down the album

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.35569552977.43359.673237977&type=3&l=d67711ecf8

The gray in the album is also in a WOW but she is quite long and in the equivalent of an 18"

The chestnut foal/youngster is now a 6yo and also has a WOW (seeing a theme here :D ). As you can see she is quite short-coupled like her Mum and has a 17".

My fitter is not too far away from you as she is based near Alnwick in Northumbria. I know she does travel up to Scotland to fit - she is also a rider and trainer herself which helps enormously.
 
I have a very short coupled 5 year old and finding a saddle he was comfortable in was impossible!

I have now had my WOW saddle 2 months and it is fantastic the difference in his way of going is amazing. They are lot of money to buy new but mine has been worth every penny.

good luck on the saddle hunt I know frustrating it is!
 
Sags_Deer said:
I have a 16hh Pre who is short coupled and im 5'9", ive ended up with a 17" semiflex made with a straight head which gives me more room in the seat and fits him great.
Click to expand...

Great option for flat wide horses - flat trees and, as you say, a straight head, will give you a little more room. Unfortunately not so much an option for anything high withered.
 
High withers need a high pommel which will make a saddle ride smaller, and will need a cutback. A straight head is for cob shapes and you're right, is rare these days, even our very wide saddles have a 1/4 cutback or so. Half cutbacks are much more common across the board, but are needed as a mimum for big withers.
 
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