Anyone know anything about Bettas? (Siamese Fighting Fish)

[Racergirl]

Hi everyone (isnt it nice in here? I dont seem to venture very far into HHO at all these days, and def never been in this room!!) as title really - any of you clever lot know anything about SFF?

Ive got one (Arthur) in my tank, its quite a large tank (not huge, but the pet shop assured me the size it is is plenty big enough for the fish Ive got in it (theres Arthur, 3 dwarf cherry things, 2 dwarf rainbows and a bottom feeding chap. oh - and two snails) Its got a heater, and a filter, I change the sponges fairly regually. Two live plants, one large leaved thing and a whispy grassy one.

My question is that Arthur seems to spend most of his time at the top, sitting on the large leaves. Ive done a quick google and everyone seems to say this is normal - but he didnt used to do it anywhere near so often? Im a bit worried that he doesnt seem to be eating, despite me aiming food at him when I feed the others and when he does venture off the leaves, he appears to struggle to stay down in the water - so I was thinking maybe swim bladder? The other thing he seems to be doing is blowing bubbles - not in a corner to make a nest (which is what my last one did when he got broody) these are all over, wherever he happens to be?? His colour is still good, so Im assuming he cant be physically ill as such? (probably way off the mark!)

I dont know wether I should take him out and put him seperate from the others for a while to see how he goes (but Ive only got one heater so Im not sure that would be good for him either!) or if theres anything I can do that will help him - bless him, hes been like this for a few days now, hence me wondering if anyone has had this themselves and if theres anything I can do.

I want to clean them out, but Im reluctant to give him too many shocks at the moment....

Thankyou for reading - hope you lot have got some ideas!

 

[s4sugar]

Sounds perfectly normal but I would be wary of the dwarf rainbows trying to shoal with him as they should be in larger groups and can upset more sedentary fish.
Does he lokk bloated at all? What do yu feed?

What filter sponges are you changing - unless this is a prefilter pad or a chemical one you never change the filters pads together - just give a rinse in water from the tank. It is the bacteria on these sponges that keep the fish alive by processing wastes.
A 25% water change using a dechlorinator for the new water would be a good idea.

 

[cloverleaf1985]

Ditto the above. I normally just take 1 sponge out and squeeze it a few times in a bucket of the old water, then put it back in. You only really need to change them when they start to fall apart.
Do you have a water testing kit? And do you know how many litres the tank is?

 

[Arizahn]

What sort of bottom feeder fish is it that you have? Is it a pleco? My SIL bought one, then found out how big it got, so promptly dumped it on us - it is now two feet long! We had to buy a six foot long tank for it...

Did you do the nitrogen cycle thing? And what are you feeding the betta? Mine went off its food, ended up buying him bloodworms and tubifex. They are lovely fish, thank you for not keeping him in a tiny bare jar!

 

[Racergirl]

You lot are fab, thank you for putting my mind a bit at ease,
Maybe I do just have a particularly lazy one who likes chilling out on the leaves!!! One of our clients at work is a fish vet, and I think i saw she's got an appointment early part of next week so I might ask her if he's not any different.... I'll try and respond to all 3 answers above but I'm on my phone so I apologise now for spellcheck deciding I don't mean the word I type and that there's little other punctuation etc!!!

It's about a 30l tank I think, takes 2 buckets to fill anyway, so it must be about that... I feed them a mixture of little pink pellets that say they are specifically for tropicals (can't remember off the top of my head what they are called but I can look when I go down) and sometimes they get bloodworms from a sachet. The pellets say to give one squeeze per 5 fish three times a day, but they don't really eat that lot (I put two squeezes in but don't do the second one completely so it's more like one and a half) so I tend to only feed them twice. Still seems like quite a lot to me though? He's not bloated at all - in fact, when I was looking at him the other night I thought he looked a bit thin!!

He's still on an angle though, and seems to struggle with swimming to the bottom of the tank - he really has to fight to stay down (hence me wondering about swim bladder) I shall go and get a test kit and see what I can sort out today - I know lots of people think I'm bonkers but if he dies and i could have stopped it by trying something else, even if it's to remove him for a while then id feel awful. (Tho I don't know what I'd do about heating him
Temporarily,cross that bridge later I think!!!)

Funny you should say that about the rainbows - when I first noticed he wasn't behaving like he had been (he used to be quite active!!) I did wonder if they had ganged up on him cos he was the newest one and he was hiding!!

Thankyou so much again you three - I don't know anything about fish other than what I've picked up here and there, got into it by accident but I do want to try and do things right by them. I'm trying to save up for a bigger tank for them - everyone tells me it's plenty large enough but it seems quite small sometimes and I'm sure they would prefer a bigger one (tho that's probably just me!!)

I do love SFF - wish they could live together in a shoal!!!

 

[s4sugar]

30 litres is barely big enough for the Betta & three cherry barbs - and that is with 30% water changes every week.

Please return the other fish to the shop - fish are subject to the sale of good act and you should get a refund if they advised they were ok in a 30Litre tank. ( settle for a credit note at least).
Cut the feeding in half and I'd be interested to know what the water readings are; Ammonia, nitrite & nitrates are the ones that matter.

Don't worry about his position if he can get to the surface.

 

[Racergirl]

Oh god - really??!! I've had all the others for about a year now, it's probably way too late to go and kick up a stink about the size thing. Having said that - I was looking at them the other week and wondering about getting them a bigger tank, they aren't cramped by any means, but I just thought it would be nicer for them. I'm just off to see about a water testing kit now, so will look at the bigger tanks as well.

Thank heaven for letters from the credit card saying "you've been good, have some extra money" !!!!

 

[Racergirl]

S4Sugar, the readings were Chlorine 0, pH 8, KH 2.0, GH 15, Nitrates and Nitrites both 0 and on the Ammonia test, it was 2.
Now if Im reading the results sheet right, that makes chlorine right, pH high end of fine (says up to 8.5) Carbonate Hardness (KH) low (ideal is 3-10) General Hardness high end of ok (up to 16) and the nitrate/nitrite fine. The sheet has lots of helpful ways to get things within normal levels other than the KH (of course, as thats the one thats completely out!!)
The sheet with the ammonia test has got a list of things to add to help keep the ammonia levels down, so I think Im off shopping again in a second!! Hopefully that combined with feeding them less in the future will stop any issues.

Ive got him seperated at the moment and in a shallower bowl (temporary measure while I sort something else out that I can heat for him!) and Im going to treat him as if hes got SBD I think as well - the more I think about it (Im raking through about 20 years back to being at college!) and investigate online, the more convinced I am that hes got that - so bless him, it will be no food and a blanched chopped pea soon - figure it cant hurt to do that and keep things crossed that hes a bit constipated and will be able to sort himself out.

Hopefully Im doing things right by them - is there anything else I can do? They are now the proud owners of a 60l tank,so hopefully that will be enough room (when its ready for them to move into!!!!)

Any other advice will be grasped greatfully - I want to do right by them !!

Thankyou so much - all of you

 

[s4sugar]

You don't need anything except water conditioner. You need to lower the ammonia and the best way is by dilution - 30% water changes twice a day adding dechlorinator to the new water. Buy changing te filter sponges you have thrown out the bacteria and these take time to multiply to useful levels. When you mentioned cleaning out the tank what have you been doing?

 

[UnaB]

I used to import and breed these years ago! Love them!

I personally think they are not suited to a community tank. They live in isolation in the wild in very small amounts of water so they can struggle in a large tank with other fish. I used to keep mine individually in small tanks or in a divided larger tank.

They can also have trouble with too much filtration. As they are heavily finned (assuming yours is not a short finned type) it can be difficult for them to swim with a fast flow of water, I suspect this might be why he is staying at the top of the tank perhaps.

I would put him in a small tank on his own with an undergravel filter, at a warm room temperature and feed him on bloodworms for the next few days (live if possible). Melafix is always good to put in the water if you're concerned, it is a herbal type thing so wont do him any harm. If you can get hold of any indian almond leaves I would put those in too.

 

[Racergirl]

The filter sponges I changed for new last time, so I haven't done anything about them other than squeeze them off in the water I've thrown away and put them back. I've changed about 1/3 of the water from their tank (usually do 50%) and taken him out so I can keep an eye on him and what he's doing (he's in the same dilution but in a shallower amount with the heater to keep him warm and there's just him and a plant for him to sit on.) The new tank is up and going but I can't remember off the top of my head what the start up thing I read said other than don't put any fish in for a while. (Don't panic, I am planning on double checking when I can do it!!)

Fish are a lot more complicated than people think aren't they!!!! My learning curve is more of a vertical line at the moment - thankyou so much all of you!!

UnaB - he's my first one with the ornamental fins, the reason I got my first one was that they girl who had him got him as a girl, but it turned out he was a she and the others kept duffing him up so she gave him to me... I think they are beautiful!!!

 

[s4sugar]

I used to breed them and usually has one in any suitable community tank but it depended on tankmates & water flow. Usually I kept males singly in 30 - 50 litre tanks apart from (the growing ones in flood-over jars in the fishhouse when I had one.) Females are good if kept in groups in community tank - again with suitable fish.

Here is a resonable page on the nitrogen cycle;-
http://www.oscarfishlover.com/helpful-articles/cycling-an-aquarium

I would have floated your Betta in the main tank in a plastic jug.

 

[Racergirl]

Thank goodness you've said that about the plastic jug - that's exactly what I've just this minute done!! I was thinking about what to do and how to heat him nicely and not make the others get cold and that's the best way we came up with - I had a panic attack about the heater needing the water to be too deep for his needs!!!!

He's struggling with a poo at the moment, fingers crossed he's contemplating being on the mend a little....
Thankyou for that link as well. Will have a good look when I get back on a computer.

 

[9tails]

How does he look in himself? I gave up with Bettas as I lost a couple of them to Dropsy. If he's looking bloated and like a pinecone with his scales sticking out, that isn't a good sign.

 

[s4sugar]

Bettas can get constipation. Feeding a bit of a defrosted pea can help this.

What dimensions is the tank? ( or make?)

 

[Racergirl]

I read that about the peas - was quite relieved, cos I kept having peas popping into my brain but started to think I was going bonkers....!!!

The new tank? its a Marina Style 60. 60 x 30 x 35 (cm!) and 60l capacity. its a lot bigger than the one they had been in, so Im hoping that a) its ok for them all, and b) they are happy in it!!!! (oh god - PLEASE tell me its ok....) Mind you - if its not ok and he gets well again, then he can stay in the other one on his own I suppose....)

 

[s4sugar]

The Marina should be ok for the fish you have if the Betta stays in the smaller tank - btw what size is that one?
Normally you'd seed the new tank from the old tank filter but they will be better in the larger volume

 

[Racergirl]

oh gosh, i honestly dont know. looking at it in comparison its about 2/3 of the width (so about 40cm?) by similar height and depth to the other one.... I can leave him in the smaller one though if that will suit him better - and theres enough room for him to go next to the others on the table ive had to put the other one on I think (you wouldnt BELIEVE the amount of furniture moving Ive had to do this afternoon to accommodate this!!)

I feel mean putting him on his own though, but I will just have to toughen up!!

 

[cloverleaf1985]

It sounds like you've done loads to help this little chap!
When I got a bigger tank, I stuck a stocking with some fish flakes in it, then when I did a water change in the old one, I squeezed the filter sponges into the new tank.
The flakes breaking down fed the bacteria and cycled the tank in about 2 weeks I think.

 

[Racergirl]

He died. Ironically he seemed much better this morning - was more upright and energetic than he had been, and he ate a tiny piece of pea - then tonight I found him stuck under his plant. Presumably on one of his promenades round the jug he accidentally got under the plant rather than on top and he drowned.

Thankyou so much for all the help everyone - the others will be much happier at least!!