Anyone seen the recent Lucinda Green video with Tom McEwan on FB?

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Trot_on

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I was watching it yesterday and thought something didn't look quite right with the horses back end, before I realised who was riding and who's page it was on. I was pretty shocked, went to the comments - many amny people commenting with their concerns.

Went back today to make sure I wasn't dreaming it, and the video is still there, just with comments removed.

I have always really loved Lucinda and am in awe of Tom's quiet and balanced riding, but it does concern me that not only are they working an obviously uncomfortable horse, but also silencing those who are concerned for horse welfare.

Just another one to add to the ever increasing list I guess!

I'm not sure how to add the link, but if you search her page on FB, you'll see it.
 
Definitely something tight and funky going on with that hind end 😬.

Not at all great but not at all unexpected that comments were turned off.

https://fb.watch/FdKmTyBrrk

ETA Some comments remain, such as this one. Lovely.

“The real sad thing about this really useful clip is the pink welly brigade and the key board warriors with the know it all negative comments which quite honestly are farcical ... seriously Lucinda and Tom will have produced more horses to Olympic level than any of you and yet you think you know better 🤣🤣 if you don't want to learn off a useful video scroll past instead of embarrassing yourself 🤣🤣”
 
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Trot_on said:
I was watching it yesterday and thought something didn't look quite right with the horses back end, before I realised who was riding and who's page it was on. I was pretty shocked, went to the comments - many amny people commenting with their concerns.

Went back today to make sure I wasn't dreaming it, and the video is still there, just with comments removed.

I have always really loved Lucinda and am in awe of Tom's quiet and balanced riding, but it does concern me that not only are they working an obviously uncomfortable horse, but also silencing those who are concerned for horse welfare.

Just another one to add to the ever increasing list I guess!

I'm not sure how to add the link, but if you search her page on FB, you'll see it.
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Yes, I saw it. I watched it a couple of times as I thought the horse was rather overreacting to what it was being asked to do. I did wonder if it was ok but because it’s two big names you end up doubting yourself. Didn’t think to read the comments, wish I had now.
 
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Tiddlypom said:
Definitely something tight and funky going on with that hind end 😬.

Not at all great but not at all unexpected that comments were turned off.

https://fb.watch/FdKmTyBrrk
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That's what lots of the comments said... nothing overly negative but more like in shock to see Tom and Lucinda working with a horse clearly trying to tell them something is up. Just feels like such a shame that they chose to shut the comments down rather than address it and make a stand.
 
myheartinahoofbeat said:
Yes, I saw it. I watched it a couple of times as I thought the horse was rather overreacting to what it was being asked to do. I did wonder if it was ok but because it’s two big names you end up doubting yourself. Didn’t think to read the comments, wish I had now.
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That's why I read the comments- I was like... am I seeing things?
 
IrishMilo said:
Yeah looks like he's having loads of fun... pain face, ears back, head tossing, going disunited - all the signs of a good time! What is it with pros being so damn ignorant to horse welfare?
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I know... I wonder if it has something to do with if they challenge it then the owner will just move the horse on to someone else.... but if I was a pro, I'd hope I'd have more integrity than that and only work with owners that are in it for the love of the horse, not the potential earnings from it before it completely breaks.
 
Even if for whatever reason unbeknownst to us common folk the pros involved think that an unhappy/uncomfortable horse is suitable to ride, why on earth would they post videos of it on their professional page?

There is so much scrutiny on the horse world right now, why would you actively advertise this? Do they genuinely think that video is a prime example of a happy competition horse or are they so insular that it’s irrelevant
 
VictoriaSponge said:
Even if for whatever reason unbeknownst to us common folk the pros involved think that an unhappy/uncomfortable horse is suitable to ride, why on earth would they post videos of it on their professional page?

There is so much scrutiny on the horse world right now, why would you actively advertise this? Do they genuinely think that video is a prime example of a happy competition horse or are they so insular that it’s irrelevant
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They think this is behaviour to be corrected and ridden through, not communication. The caption is all about Tom's skill in overcoming what we see and it's his skills that are being advertised. The horse doesn't actually matter.

Maybe it is just a confused and overwhelmed horse! Maybe it isn't lame! But the clip doesn't address anything other than "how I make horse stop doing thing". People will want to pay for tricks and tips to make their horse stop doing the thing and nobody in the whole chain is asking why either horse is doing the thing because they don't care.
 
It really saddens me to think what’s going on in arenas all over the world by professionals. I think part of the problem is that they put everything down to them being fit, hot competition horses.

Also rather maddening is the amount of people who are straight away there to climb up the backside of the professional and tell everyone else that we don’t have a clue because we haven’t “trained a horse to that level”.
 
Tiddlypom said:
Definitely something tight and funky going on with that hind end 😬.

Not at all great but not at all unexpected that comments were turned off.

https://fb.watch/FdKmTyBrrk

ETA Some comments remain, such as this one. Lovely.

“The real sad thing about this really useful clip is the pink welly brigade and the key board warriors with the know it all negative comments which quite honestly are farcical ... seriously Lucinda and Tom will have produced more horses to Olympic level than any of you and yet you think you know better 🤣🤣 if you don't want to learn off a useful video scroll past instead of embarrassing yourself 🤣🤣”
Click to expand...
Goodness, that's far worse than I was expecting from the OP. The horse is disuniting over every fence. Dread to think what is going on in that left hind, poor boy.
 
IrishMilo said:
Yeah looks like he's having loads of fun... pain face, ears back, head tossing, going disunited - all the signs of a good time! What is it with pros being so damn ignorant to horse welfare?
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Neck tight, head held in, fizzing yet ridden in spurs, frothing but what for? Rider has iron grip on mouth

Horrible
 
Inside hind at start of the video is the dodgy one??
Is this how SI issues can manifest? (Not saying it is that just, can they sometimes look like this)?

ETA sorry trying to get better at spotting these things
 
Whilst I agree that it’s not a useful video to publish, and more needs to be considered about why the horse is doing that, I don’t agree with the HHO mass diagnosis of terminal hind end problems or assuming that Tom won’t listen to the horse. The horse has the most impeccable eventing record- he has never had a fence down, and he says quite clearly that the horse is normally very good at the exercise. Perhaps he was a bit sore that day, perhaps he was geneuinely being a bit daft and spooking at a camera or something, perhaps there is something bigger going on, in which case I have no doubts it will be investigated.
I had a lesson with Tom a couple of years ago and my horse was very fresh- bucking, disuniting, generally being an idiot and he checked with me several times if that was normal for the horse- he wasn’t just laughing it off or assuming it was all fine. I think (hope) Tom is one of the good ones.
 
TheMule said:
Whilst I agree that it’s not a useful video to publish, and more needs to be considered about why the horse is doing that, I don’t agree with the HHO mass diagnosis of terminal hind end problems or assuming that Tom won’t listen to the horse. The horse has the most impeccable eventing record- he has never had a fence down, and he says quite clearly that the horse is normally very good at the exercise. Perhaps he was a bit sore that day, perhaps he was geneuinely being a bit daft and spooking at a camera or something, perhaps there is something bigger going on, in which case I have no doubts it will be investigated.
I had a lesson with Tom a couple of years ago and my horse was very fresh- bucking, disuniting, generally being an idiot and he checked with me several times if that was normal for the horse- he wasn’t just laughing it off or assuming it was all fine. I think (hope) Tom is one of the good ones.
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Generally good people can be imperfect. Maybe there is context, but we don't have it. If this was a random person and not Tom, I dont feel like they would get the same benefit of the doubt from you or from anyone.

Since you agree that the video is poor, do you think it progresses the current state of welfare and social license not to criticise it? Because you think this person is okay in general?
 
The horse is far worse than anything I was expecting to see from professionals i normally respect putting a video up. 😕
 
I'd seen the video a couple of days ago; it's not pretty viewing and imo shouldn't have been put out there on social media without any context. I don't think we can say if the horse is sound or not but it's not a happy image.

Unfortunately it only encourages others to excuse similar behaviour. I wouldn't judge Tom on this video alone but have found a lot of Lucinda's videos and commentary dated.
 
TheMule said:
Whilst I agree that it’s not a useful video to publish, and more needs to be considered about why the horse is doing that, I don’t agree with the HHO mass diagnosis of terminal hind end problems or assuming that Tom won’t listen to the horse. The horse has the most impeccable eventing record- he has never had a fence down, and he says quite clearly that the horse is normally very good at the exercise. Perhaps he was a bit sore that day, perhaps he was geneuinely being a bit daft and spooking at a camera or something, perhaps there is something bigger going on, in which case I have no doubts it will be investigated.
I had a lesson with Tom a couple of years ago and my horse was very fresh- bucking, disuniting, generally being an idiot and he checked with me several times if that was normal for the horse- he wasn’t just laughing it off or assuming it was all fine. I think (hope) Tom is one of the good ones.
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All the more reason why they should have absolutely been questioning why the horse consistently won't land on its left hind - presumably this is new. This isn't a horse twitting about, it's a horse showing a specific and consistent issue.

I think Tom is an exceptional rider and excellent horseman. But I would have to have watched the video with my eyes closed to think that both continuing to try and work through the issue and posting that video was anything other than a terrible judgement call.
 
This would have been posted by Lucinda who should know better that a 45 second clip of a horse doing this would be questioned especially with no context or before/after. I agree it's bad optics. It looks bad for both of the parties involved and I feel sorry for Tom if this was a snapshot of a sharp horse being tense yet improved as went on but has been thrown under the bus by Lucinda not showing that the horse was happier in his work at end. If horse got no better then that's a whole different discussion...
 
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