Anyone used a baucher bit?

[millreef]

I've just read in my nag mag that a baucher bit is good for Arabs who are strong and hold their head high. I'm trying to be as prepared as possible when I see my horse next (long story but I only have 7 weeks with him each year as I live in HK but he lives in Morocco). Although he's not strong - the complete opposite, you can ride him with the lightest contact, he does have a naturally high head carriage and he's sensitive in his poll. OR should I just stick with my eggbut snaffle?
Getting sooooooo excited because I've not seen him since August 13th last year and it's only 35 days until I see him again(!)

 

[peanut]

A baucher is another name for a hanging cheek isn't it?

 

[millreef]

No idea - I'll google it and find out. Just want to know if anyone has used it on their horse really.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I've used this one ^ (Myler comfort snaffle with hanging cheeks) with great success. They are expensive (and I needed to go down a size by quarter of an inch) but I have found that alot of arabs/PBA's like the comfort snaffle mouthpiece. I have also used the full cheek version.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

A baucher is another name for a hanging cheek isn't it?

Yes.

 

[Shysmum]

Hanging cheeks (filet bauchers) are really good for bringing the head down, as they use poll pressure - when the bit is used, the rings slide back, and apply the pressure.

It would definitely be worth trying, together with a very padded headpiece, and see how it goes.

Bet you cannot WAIT to see your horsey - not long to go now !!

Hope that helps, sm xxx

 

[Bertthefrog]

Noooooooooooo, don't do it!!!

I hate hanging cheek/baucher snaffles with a passion - and so do many of my colleagues.

They seem to be "on trend" for the grass roots rider and I have no idea why, as all their horses just sit on their hands. Yes, the head may be lowered, but the horse is on the forehand!

In all honesty, it doesn't matter what bit you use, there is no substitute for a horse that is in front of the leg, which will then work into a soft hand.

Most arabs tend to sit behind the bit, ie not take a proper contact, regardless of where the head is held, and that sounds like the case with your horse.

If I were you, I would find an instructor you like and respect, and go from there. The likelihood is - once he/she accepts the leg, then the contact, and head carriage will adjustaccordingly - without the need for any changes of bit!

What is the old adage - "A bad workman blames his tools!" *she says, tongue firmly in cheek!*

 

[Maddie2412]

i wouldnt this is like a snaffle with small poll pressure and if you horse has a really sensitive poll its going to let you know about it with this in its mouth most arabs have a high head carriage and if he goes well in a snaffle would stick with it

 

[K27]

It can be good for horses that have a naturally high head carriage or that need to be a bit rounder or that don't like loose rings- it's a fairly nice kind bit used correctly!

It does apply poll pressure so if its for a horse that doesn't like poll pressure or has a sensitive poll maybe look to alternatives. There's no harm in trying one though- if you could borrow one that would save you buying one if your horse didn't like it!

If he goes behind the vertical a lozenged loose ring may help him to take up a contact.

 

[Bertthefrog]

If he goes behind the vertical a lozenged loose ring may help him to take up a contact.

Getting the horse in front of your leg will help it take up a contact!

 

[ester]

just to say our arab pb goes really well in a mullen mouth baucher. she is a sensitive soul and likes it because the baucher sides keep the mouthpiece very still (she goes well in a pelham for the same reason). The poll pressure applied is negligible if any, it depends on the shape of the ring in which the cheekpiece sits. see this site for diagrams
http://www.sustainabledressage.net/tack/bridle.php#loose-ring

millreef I don't think you will know until you try what suits your boy, start with simple .

 

[Luci07]

always enjoy the posts about bitting! mine is way behind the bridle due to (IMO) being schooled in draw reins. He is only 5 and will overbend massively while not letting go at all over his body. Teeth/saddle (twice now in 6 weeks) and back plus full vetting all done.

I stuck him in a loose ring snaffle with a lozenge to start with, am going down a happy mouth fulmer with lozenge for schooling to see if that will help to encourage him to take the bit. He will do on a hack/jumping but the comment of getting him in front of the leg deeply resonates with me atm! fine out jumping, very hard work schooling!

 

[K27]

Getting the horse in front of your leg will help it take up a contact!

Yes that ob.v goes without saying! (the OP hasn't said if her horse is or is not in front of the leg to be fair!)

 

[tallyho!]

Here I go again... the baucher gives less poll pressure than you think... for it to do that it SHOULD really have a fixed rein attachment. It doesn't so the effect you want is negated. All it will do is slide back and forth in the mouth and the cheekpeice of the bridle will bulge and flop about.

Fashionable... but useless. Like a jointed pelham...

 

[Bertthefrog]

Fair point K27!

It is a bit of a bugbear of mine - as I'm sure you have realised by now!

 

[Bertthefrog]

Here I go again... the baucher gives less poll pressure than you think... for it to do that it SHOULD really have a fixed rein attachment. It doesn't so the effect you want is negated. All it will do is slide back and forth in the mouth and the cheekpeice of the bridle will bulge and flop about.

Fashionable... but useless. Like a jointed pelham...

Pelham - pah, my next biggest dislike! Don't get me started!!

 

[Jesstickle]

My horse is happy in his. He isn't behind the leg or on the forehand but he does like a nice stable mouthpiece and doesn't enjoy pressure on his bars so it suits him.

I would almost welcome him being on the forehand as a change from his perennial giraffe impression!

ETA: I absolutely don't have it for the poll pressure

What bit should horses go in then all the people who have bug bears about certain things? I would have thought that what ever the horse is happiest in would be the best thing, whether it is theoretically 'effective' or not?

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Very interesting reading Ester.

Another bit with this function is the drop-cheek or baucher/fillis bit. This bit can look deceptively like a gag-bit but it is not, since the mouth piece cannot slide on the bitring, which is a prerequisite for gag action. In this bit, the fastening of the bridle side piece is done further up the side of the head. This makes the bit lie flatter to the side of the head, because anything other than would have to fight the "lever" of the arm where the side piece joins. This effectively stops the bit from being pulled into the mouth from the side as well. And horses usually like this kind of bit.

This bit is usually falsley described as creating poll pressure. Most baucher bits don't. In order for it to put pressure on the poll, the ring which the rein attaches to, needs to have a drawn-out oblong shape so that the rein stays at a certain position on the ring. If the ring is oblong, the rein will want to stay at one end, and thus pulls this end up towards the hand/rein. If the ring is round, so that the distance from the mouth bars to the rein is constant at all angles, the rein will slide.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Fashionable... but useless. Like a jointed pelham...

I have a lozenge jointed pelham for showing.

However I ride off the snaffle rein because that's all she needs (very light mouth) so the rest is for 'show' and to comply with the 'pelham or double bridle' rule.

 

[Damnation]

My old mare was in a baucher/hanging cheek.
Hated the poll pressure. Is now in a NS Verbindend and seeks the contact more now then she ever has. She is very happy in the NS bit.

 

[Bertthefrog]

My horse is happy in his. He isn't behind the leg or on the forehand but he does like a nice stable mouthpiece and doesn't enjoy pressure on his bars so it suits him.

I would almost welcome him being on the forehand as a change from his perennial giraffe impression!

ETA: I absolutely don't have it for the poll pressure

What bit should horses go in then all the people who have bug bears about certain things? I would have thought that what ever the horse is happiest in would be the best thing, whether it is theoretically 'effective' or not?

I'm not advocating one bit for all occasions - that's inpractical. I know baucher's that work for horse/rider combinations, as do I pelhams - and I'm not narrow minded enough not to recommend such a bit for a combination to try!

What I have seen, is a myriad of riding club/unaffiliated dressage entrants that use the bit - assuming it does have poll action, and expecting it to have miraculous effects - which of course it doesn't!

There is no substitute for correct application of the aids - it doesn't matter what bit you have, if the horse is responsive to the leg, which as a rider, is my priority. If it is in front of the leg, and you have a quiet hand, the horse will invariably soften and round - whatever you have in its mouth!

As you asked, my bit of choice, is a boring old loose ring fench link - I guess because it suits my style of riding.

 

[Jesstickle]

Everything I have ever had has gone in a loose ring french link but he hates it! Don't know what his problem with it is but he will not seek a contact with one at all. Strange beast.

 

[K27]

Fair point K27!

It is a bit of a bugbear of mine - as I'm sure you have realised by now!

LOL!- I know exactly where you are coming from though as I'm exactly the same with my boys- well one of them i'm strict with him being off my leg and seat, but the other one is quite the opposite- very hot and sharp !

 

[Bertthefrog]

Everything I have ever had has gone in a loose ring french link but he hates it! Don't know what his problem with it is but he will not seek a contact with one at all. Strange beast.

Ahh - but if they were all the same, life would be far too easy, and very dull!

 

[tallyho!]

Pelham - pah, my next biggest dislike! Don't get me started!!

So.... btf... what's wrong with a pelham? I'm starting you off...

 

[Jesstickle]

Ahh - but if they were all the same, life would be far too easy, and very dull!

I'd settle for an easy life right now I really would. I've got one bolshy one who can only do giraffe impressions and one TB with laminitis that heard I was going to back her so decided to lame herself. She has been bitted in a loose ring french link though! lol

 

[monkeybum13]

I've used a hanging cheek before. I used it for a mare that liked it because it was "still" in her mouth, it was more still than an eggbutt snaffle and didn't move like the loose ring.

No poll pressure btw

All bits serve a different purpose for different horses for example some horses will go brilliantly in a loose ring, others hate loose rings. You cannot simply say that a certain bit is horrid and generalise.

 

[unbalanced]

I agree with ester and monkeybum13. I think the hanging cheek is stiller in their mouth and my mare seems to accept it much more readily than she would a 'normal' snaffle. She is very fussy and worried in her mouth (did a few years in a riding school so carried a fair few beginners in her time, plus I won't pretend my hands have always been perfect) so a lot of what we have had to do has been lessons for me to get my hands really good (still, steel hands in velvet gloves). The next thing has been to find the mildest stillest bit for her and she seems to prefer the myler baucher pictured on the first page of this thread, so that is what she has. She likes a bit that leaves space for her tongue and doesn't move in her mouth so even a french link snaffle would be too much.

And I am another vote for a pelham. I would rather use a mullen mouth pelham (with two reins) on my mare with her issues than a single jointed snaffle if those were the only choices.

 

[Tnavas]

Noooooooooooo, don't do it!!!

I hate hanging cheek/baucher snaffles with a passion - and so do many of my colleagues.

They seem to be "on trend" for the grass roots rider and I have no idea why, as all their horses just sit on their hands. Yes, the head may be lowered, but the horse is on the forehand!

In all honesty, it doesn't matter what bit you use, there is no substitute for a horse that is in front of the leg, which will then work into a soft hand.

Most arabs tend to sit behind the bit, ie not take a proper contact, regardless of where the head is held, and that sounds like the case with your horse.

If I were you, I would find an instructor you like and respect, and go from there. The likelihood is - once he/she accepts the leg, then the contact, and head carriage will adjustaccordingly - without the need for any changes of bit!

What is the old adage - "A bad workman blames his tools!" *she says, tongue firmly in cheek!*

I've honestly not had this problem when ever I've used it. I like the bit because it is quiet - like the Fulmer with similar action and without the long cheeks.

For those that think it has poll pressure - it doesn't - to achieve poll pressure the mouthpiece has to be held down in the mouth and for the rein to be lower than the mouth piece.

The bits that apply poll pressure are curb bits such as a weymouth or a pelham and to a lessor extent the Uxeter and Kimblewick.

They are lovely bits - but as a snaffle is the bit that raises the head then a Kimblewick or Uxeter may benefit your horse more.

While schooling is the b est help there are riders - who 1) Can't afford lessons 2) Don't have the co-ordination to work a horse correctly 3) Can't yet ride well enough to work the horse correctly and then there are those horses that wriggle out of working.

While I don't generally recommend people to use different bits to change their horses way of going - they can all work in a single jointed snaffle (ducks to avoid missiles thrown by the double jointed brigade) like they used to - we didn't find excuses we schooled them out of the believed problem, there are times when a bit with a different action helps the horse to 'get the idea' - note I don't refer to them as 'stronger' the action is different and the horse has a different reaction to it!

I also use lunging in side reins a lot for horses that evade the contact.

 

[somethingorother]

Maybe your excitement transmits as being a bit tense when you get on him? Before changing his bit I would first do a couple of weeks working on relaxing your body, particularly arms and hands, concentrating on breathing. The next important thing is lots of transitions and bends to encourage stretching, make sure movement is forward and try not to use your hands to turn or stop, instead thinking about the seat and legs.

I would be tempted to try bitless (non poll pressure type) if i was in a situation as you described and had a horse which was sensitive to the aids, i.e. wouldn't bog off with me