appalled......

Do you have a problem with using electric fences? Same thing only a much, much lower voltage to the shock.

I would not use one without treating for ulcers first though.
 
Yuck yuck yuck. My mare woodchews, but doesn't windsuck or crib, and I could never EVER even contemplate anything like this. I even feel mean on her when I shout 'OI!' for biting the door frame!
 
I worked at a stud farm that used to hook the mains electricity through metal stable door frames - I didn't realise this at first and went to get a horse out and got a massive shock. Worst thing was, I was holding the horse at the time, poor thing shot to the back of the stable and hid! :-(
 
cptrayes said:
Do you have a problem with using electric fences? Same thing only a much, much lower voltage to the shock.

I would not use one without treating for ulcers first though.
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No - but the difference is a horse does not repeatedly touch an electric fence out of a learned behaviour or due to an underlying psychological/veterinary problem.

It's a similar argument to say smacking a child for running out infront of a car, which will teach it not to do it again, to repeatedly smacking a child with OCD or psychological problems when the child doesn't actually have much control over what they are doing.
 
that's shocking:eek:
and surely the shock will cause the horse to become more nervous, so when the collar is removed the habit starts again? because a horse cant live it's whole life with a collar on surely! (i know there are many causes of cribbing and win sucking, but if i remember correctly anxiety can be a cause, could be wrong, so ignore if i am:p)
 
Moomin1 said:
No - but the difference is a horse does not repeatedly touch an electric fence out of a learned behaviour or due to an underlying psychological/veterinary problem.
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No, and neither will one wearing that collar. It will shock itself once or twice and then stop. I would not leave one on a horse that continues to crib, but I would use it to see if it stopped after one or two shocks, provided that I was sure that the horse was doing it from habit and for no other reason - for example, a yearling who simply copied her mother that I once knew.
 
That is awful, I am sure it gives shocks at other times which is horrible, I know when I pull fly rugs off if I am static and touch the horse they go mad, so with it round their neck they are probably more likely to injure themselves panicking, it annoys me how people resort to things like his without finding out the reason WHY the horse is doing something...
 
cptrayes said:
And provided that you have checked that it is not a physical issue but a habit, the horse has the choice not to crib.
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How do you know it has a choice? We don't know enough about 'vices' in horses to know exactly what causes them in every circumstance and why horses continue to do them. It could very well be a form of OCD as in humans, or a psychological disorder which makes it almost impossible for them to control it - and the infliction of a shock from a collar could ultimately make the stress ten times worse?
 
Personally I wouldn't use one.

I was taught that stereotypical behaviour such as this becomes an imprint on the brain and causes a release of endorphins that relax the horse & therefore a physical prevention/interference such as this could cause the horse more stress.

I think I have remembered that correctly..... it was a while ago!
 
Agreed 100% Moomin1.

I have an occasional cribber who gets very distressed if I try and stop him. It is purely due to habit, one he developed in his SJ days when stabled 24/7. He has certain posts he does it on in the field and I just let him get on with it and ignore him. If anything it relaxes him....

I am lucky as he has not worn his teeth and does not suffer from colic or ulcers, so do not worry about it.

Horses can't rationalise like humans. They don't know cribbing is a vice and I do not believe they can control the desire once the habit is learnt.

Equally by 'punishing' them for it, they may indeed stop the habit, but only to take up another one instead....
 
I can't quote but I agree with Chaos, have heard in the past that stopping ingrained habits like these does more harm than good so I wouldn't use one either.
 
Awful! Im sure it would take a lot of shocks for the horse to realise what it's doing to get a shock resulting in lots of unnecessary pain :(
 
cptrayes said:
No, and neither will one wearing that collar. It will shock itself once or twice and then stop. I would not leave one on a horse that continues to crib, but I would use it to see if it stopped after one or two shocks, provided that I was sure that the horse was doing it from habit and for no other reason - for example, a yearling who simply copied her mother that I once knew.
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I understand your thinking cptrayes (oh and welcome back on the forum, thoughts are with you on your recent situation) but on this I don't agree with you!!......
 
Moomin1 said:
How do you know it has a choice? We don't know enough about 'vices' in horses to know exactly what causes them in every circumstance and why horses continue to do them. It could very well be a form of OCD as in humans, or a psychological disorder which makes it almost impossible for them to control it - and the infliction of a shock from a collar could ultimately make the stress ten times worse?
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It might do, yes. I certainly wouldn't use one unsupervised - I'd be watching the horse closely for additional stress and I wouldn't continue if it had not stopped after a very small number of shocks.

On the whole I think stereotypical behaviours shouldn't be interfered with, but I personally find cribbing impossible to tolerate around my own home and if it was a choice between getting rid of a cribber, as I once did, and trying this collar for a short while, I might try it.
 
competitiondiva said:
I understand your thinking cptrayes (oh and welcome back on the forum, thoughts are with you on your recent situation) but on this I don't agree with you!!......
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Ta, he was a weaver but I wouldn't have tried to stop him. I do detest cribbing though, there is something about it that frays my nerves!
 
cptrayes said:
Ta, he was a weaver but I wouldn't have tried to stop him. I do detest cribbing though, there is something about it that frays my nerves!
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I'm the other way - my mare weaves - not all the time, just when she is getting stressed because she wants to go to the field......it drives me mad. I get stressed just watching her!
 
I'm acute. Cptrays on this, if biological reasons are excluded then I don't see a problem, the
Horse should learn to not windsuck from such a device. No, the horse can't get away from the contraption but it should be able to associate action with shock, so in essence it is a good idea. Theoretically the horse should learn to avoid the shock by not wind sucking. My problem would be that other behaviours such as swallowing or tensing in shock may cause a 'Mis fire' so to speak, a shock without just cause, I would be worried about this, also horses are intelligent creatures and as much as they will learn to not windsuck, they will also learn very quickly that the shock comes from the collar and that they can windsuck without it.
 
Solo: that reminds me of when we accidentally electrified a five bar gate and my friends mare windsucked on it... Whoops! Have to say though, didn't stop her windsucking, but she never tried it on the gate again!
 
Chaos said:
Personally I wouldn't use one.

I was taught that stereotypical behaviour such as this becomes an imprint on the brain and causes a release of endorphins that relax the horse & therefore a physical prevention/interference such as this could cause the horse more stress.

I think I have remembered that correctly..... it was a while ago!
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This and also if you remove the opportunity for one vice, the horse may well display other stereotypical behaviour instead, ie box walking.
 
Sologirl said:
I worked at a stud farm that used to hook the mains electricity through metal stable door frames - I didn't realise this at first and went to get a horse out and got a massive shock. Worst thing was, I was holding the horse at the time, poor thing shot to the back of the stable and hid! :-(
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Thats one of the most dangerous, stupid things ive ever heard.
 
My horse cribs every now and then but it doesn't worry me and he would be very stressed if i started sticking devices on him.

I don't see the point in collars unless you want your horse to live with it on, as soon as its taken off they'll start again, they just mask the problem.
 
I have tried this and also an electric dog collar on myself and unless on the highest setting they don't actually hurt. Personally I wouldn't use one on my horse due to how stressy he can be anyway so something like that would just make him not want to go near his stable
 
Moomin1 said:
No - but the difference is a horse does not repeatedly touch an electric fence out of a learned behaviour or due to an underlying psychological/veterinary problem.

It's a similar argument to say smacking a child for running out infront of a car, which will teach it not to do it again, to repeatedly smacking a child with OCD or psychological problems when the child doesn't actually have much control over what they are doing.
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Exactly this.
 
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