Apparently I'm a cruel owner

tabithakat64

tabithakat64

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Or so I was told yesterday :rolleyes:

I'm cruel leaving my two out over night when they should be tucked up in their stables and I don't feed them or rug them enough.

My winter rountine is as follows:

They are out for 11 hours in a field together, it is well drained, has natural shelter and their is enough grass for them to pick at.

They can't go out in either of the two other groups as the small pony gets bullied and my cob has sustained two nasty field injuries over the last two years and I don't want him injuring himself again by putting them out in the same group or introducing him to the new and very fiesty group of mares.

We are not allowed to use electric fencing to seperate paddocks as YO doesn't like it.

There are no other yards that offer decent year round turnout in my area, where my two could stay together.

My cob is fat.
He is 14.3hh and currently 480Kg, he's probably a 4 on a condition scoring chart and can't be worked as much as I'd like due to one of the previous injuries.
He wears a rainsheet in wet weather, gets 12lb of hay split over 2 or 3 small holed haynets and a handful of Fast Fibre to hide his medicine and vitamin and mineral supplement in.

I've been told I'm starving him. :mad: because he stands at the gate when he can hear the horses who are in at night getting their morning feed.

My pony is 13.2hh and aged 21 and weighs 318kg, she's in good condition as you can feel her ribs but not see them and she has a nice covering.

She has previously had laminitis so wears a muzzle from February to mid December usually.

She has the same amount of hay as fat cob and the recommended amount of Fast Fibre for a pony of her size, if she drops weight I add a small amount of Outshine to her diet. She is lightly ridden a couple of times a week and rugged as necessary depending on the weather (usually a LW or MW rug as she's unclipped).

Aparrently I'm cruel by putting her out overnight (she rushes to the field) and she should be in and wearing a heavyweight rug.

I'm sick of other liveries telling me I don't look after my two properly and that I'm a bad and cruel owner :mad:

So what do you think am I cruel or not? :rolleyes:
 
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Hardly! Do the people who criticise you own natives? I get comments as well, mostly from owners of fine boned, thin skinned horses who don't convert air to fat!
 
It is not cruel to take care of their health by ensuring you keep their weight as right as possible.

If you are cruel, so am I. Fany is out unrugged and in a field without masses of grass. Also she doesn't get any hard food just a couple of armfuls of haylage.

FDC
 
Indiat - the people who are criticising me routine all have native/cob types.

I can guarentee that they will have been tucked up in their stables in their heavyweight rugs for a couple of hours by now and that they all will have finished their haynets by the time I arrive at the yard later despite not getting anything else until 6am tomorrow.

But that's fine because theirs aren't outside in the dark in lightweight rugs which means they are fantastic owners who all love their horses more and take care of their horses better than I do.

I don't usually get annoyed about things like this as I know I'm doing what is best for my two but I'm getting worn down with the comments from people who don't know their a**e from their elbow :D
 
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Yes I do...

I would only have them on a maximum of 2 hrs grazing, far too cold outside, anyone would think you though horses were born to withstand these conditions.

Muzzling any horse is cruel, seeing the grazing but not being able to eat it as fast as you want causes severe psychological damage to horses, far worse than being in agony and not being able to walk in my opinion.

Rugs: cobs and ponies are sickly fragile breeds/types don't you know!!!! 5 rugs is a minimum in the winter and 3 in the summer.


Small holed haynets can cause similar psychological distress (as described above) and horses can get their ears or whiskers caught in the holes, very irresponsible and very very cruel :(

Fast fibre and outshine is absolutely **** and of no substance ;) (it's not like I would use it ;)) don't you realise that horses do not need grazing, it is hard feed that should be provided ad lib ;)

Finally if your cob has a condition score of 4 I would be seriously worried if I were you, you need to get him up to a 10 at least, in which case your poor poor pony....

*trundles off to call the RSPCA but doubts they will get there in time to rescue the little mite*

in other words...




















I think you are spot on in what you are doing and they are all numpties :D
 
tabithakat64 said:
Indiat - the people who are criticising me routine all have native/cob types.

I can guarentee that they will have been tucked up in their stables in their heavyweight rugs for a couple of hours by now and that they all will have finished their haynets by the time I arrive at the yard later despite not getting anything else until 6am tomorrow.

But that's fine because theirs aren't outside in the dark in lightweight rugs which means they are fantastic owners who all love their horses more and take care of their horses better than I do.

I don't usually get annoyed about things like this as I know I'm doing what is best for my two but I'm getting worn down with the comments from people who don't know their a**e from their elbow :D
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Dear God! Can you leave the yard? Is there maybe a small private yard you could go to that would offer a smiliar arrangement over turnout?
 
that means i must also be a cruel owner my 15hh welsh cob is out 24/7 in a lightweight rug, having just a hand full of pony nuts and chop and a slice of hay once a day and that's just to keep my happy, i would say her condition score I would say of 4

dont take any notice of other people you know whats best for your ponies
 
No, you are not a cruel owner and by the sounds of it you are very aware of your horses individual needs.

Some people always seem to be more interested in other peoples horses than their own, and people who feel the need to overfeed and overrug set themselves up for lami cases and massively obese horses that are bound to have joint problems in later life. It is my real bugbear to see young natives rugged up to their eyeballs and force fed when they are just getting obese (I accept many people do rug youngsters, but also feed appropriately so they don't get fat, this I don't have a problem with really). Or massively obese horses fed more than a balancer or a little chaff "just because".

People would probably class us as cruel as we have the haflinger, the three welshies, the dartmoor pony and the three moorland ponies all unrugged. All have lovely thick healthy coats and a good covering. At the moment they are on adlib hay and will be bucket fed a small feed as and when they start to drop weight. On the other side we have TB and warmbloods that are all rugged, adlib haylage and also bucket fed with a balanced, nutritious meal. I accept that every horses need is different and attend to their needs accordingly

Personally I think there are more cruel things in Horse ownership than having horses living out and unrugged!
 
Oh just ignore them - they are just jealous that you can turn your's out and don't have to muck out all the time!

Next time someone comments - tell them the above and see what they say!

I would also ask them if they have any idea of fat scoring and if they know that it is actually more natural for them to live out!
 
What's your vet like? I had a friend who got this kind of flak, and her vet obligingly came out and read the other liveries the riot act, telling them that he couldn't stop them killing their fat arse slobs with kindness and breaking their necks and their bank balances on lardy obese horses with joint problems and digestive problems and mental problems but would they kindly stop banging on at his client who happened to have the fittest horses on the yard and clearly had some kind of grip on equine nutrition, unlike the rest of them.
Mind you, he was an old boy in his own practice and didn't give a toss about getting new clients!
It was funny though.
 
You know your horses and many horses are happier out.Some horses also need rugs, some don;t. Maybe the know it alls aren't really as "horsey" knowledgeable as you, and don;t really understand different horses have different requirements. Hard, but try and ignore them, you know your horses are happy.
I have one of mine stabled over night, as he's been ill.Out by day. Has a medium weight rug and an under rug if very cold. One is 1/2 TB living out happily 24/7 in thick neck rug along with his NF unrugged friend. So, take it I am also an unkind mummy- not!!
Luckily, have my own place so noone to biatch about what I do!
 
Well if you are cruel then so am I. My horses live out 24/7 shock horror. Yes they are rugged and have natural shelter and access to their stables (which they never use) but in last winters weather and this years they are out and doing just fine. I know how happy they are to be out when they have finished their feeds in their stables and are chomping at the bit to get back out again.

This wouldn't work for every horse, I know and appreciate that. But it really does get up my nose when people like you who are giving your horses everything they need gets stick for it.
 
Mind you, I do get people telling me my Connie/Cob should be out 24/7 and shouldn't have that great thick rug on.
Which is fine for them, as they are not paying the feed bills, but for whatever reason, he missed out on the gene that keeps the weight on come what may, and if he gets cold, he turns rapidly into a hatrack.
Yes, he'd probably survive, but he'd be costing me a fortune!
 
skewbald_again said:
Mind you, I do get people telling me my Connie/Cob should be out 24/7 and shouldn't have that great thick rug on.
Which is fine for them, as they are not paying the feed bills, but for whatever reason, he missed out on the gene that keeps the weight on come what may, and if he gets cold, he turns rapidly into a hatrack.
Yes, he'd probably survive, but he'd be costing me a fortune!
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Ah, see, I can understand that, and why he needs to be treated like a lighter bred horse bless him, plus you'd be classed as more cruel if you left him unrugged in a hatrack state... However massively obese cobs rugged and over fed is wrong, and like stated above, I do believe vets and trimmers should plug it to the owners everytime they see obese horses. But they don't because the horse owners sulk and change vets/trimmers if they say something they don't want to hear!
 
these posts always make me smile!

So while mine do both stay in overnight, having had a TB who was a complete nightmare to keep weight on, I am always grateful to have horses who do hold their weight..!

The art of a credible horse"person" is to keep the horse in the way that keeps that horse happiest and healthiest, not sticking to one size fits all routine. Which means not getting hung up on amounts of feed/rugging/in or out. Did enjoy having the WB x who needed about 1/2 the rugs that my current 2 have on!
 
Every horse is an individual and should be treated as such.

I have no problem with people who keep their horses stabled overnight, rug them because they need it, or feed them hard feed because they need to gain/maintain weight or are in hard work.

I should point out that my third horse is stabled overnight, is fed more than the other two (still has a fibre based diet) and wears rugs when he needs too, but I don't look after him properly either he sleeps on rubber mats to save him standing in his own wee all night as I've tried every type of bedding and cannot find anything that is absorbant enough to stop his stable flooding. I'm resorting to having a small drainage hole drilled in the wall :rolleyes:

What I do have an issue with is being told I need to keep my horse in/rug it etc because someone else is or even worse being told I'm cruel because a person has been cold all day so surely my horses must be cold out at night :rolleyes:
 
Definately cruel to the bone!!! Leaving your horses out in a natural state and giving them foliage to pick at totally wrong... we need more like you (miss) treating your horses like this and the horse would be a much happier one!

I have 2 WB that until this year have lived out in 2ft of snow, fed and hayed well and have kept there weight fine. If I could find a yard with 24/7 turnout they would still be this way I personally like that my horses can roam and do as they please, eat all day and all night and keep there joints moving and not planted in a stable, I know needs must and ours are required to come in over the winter much to my annoyance, I have now rugged them though as they would cost me a bomb in winter.

Keep doing what your doing girl take no notice of the fairy clan!! x x
 
Well talking about a cruel owners, then that must be me.

My 4 Arabs and Newforester live out 24/7 at the moment they have m/w rugs on as they all have nice woolly coats. They can get into the stables if they want to but do not seem to use them.

They are fed Lo cal Balancer and a handful of Alfa oil. They seem to be picking at the hay so I only put half a bale out (They do have grass)


They are well covered, happy horses who love a gallop around ever day.
 
oh FFS, these people drive me mad, know absolutely nothing (to the detriment of their own horses) and then bitch and moan about people who are getting it right. You sound like you are really on the ball and keep an eye on changes in their weight so tell em where to get off, bet your horses are much happier than theirs!!
 
I'd have mine out if it wasn't for the fact she's gone on strike... she actually LIKES being in her stable at night!

But then, I supply her with enough forage that she's still got leftover in the morning, and if thats not eaten then she has some for when she gets brought in before I get down.

So my horse litrelly has the option of eating something 24 hours a day.

She's a little rotund, but I'd rather she were eating 24 hours a day a little rounded than starved.
She eats a hay/straw mix, so she's not getting sugar from it!!
 
Just ignore them - ours were out 24/7 before stupid appaloosa of mine clearly had a hooley around in the field and has done something to his leg. Had vet out who also isn't sure where the injury is (although Tobes thinks one leg has dropped off except in canter which he does perfectly with three legs), said in at night and out in the day.

First year I have ever done this (always had ex racehorses before who really would have liked three hours out and the rest in!) so was so proud of self for achieving out 24/7. Once he is sound that is what he will be going back to - and they sooo much prefer it. So just ignore them!
 
I've not read all of the replies but at a guess, I reckon they'll be very similar to mine, unless they are numpties that are clueless about horses like the person who reckons you are cruel.

What a load of tosh, and what bloody idiots they are.

You're quite the opposite of being cruel, keeping a lamanitic pony at the correct weight is kind and if a lot more owners understood this, there would be less crippled ponies in the world.
Where your cob is concerned, you're quite right in what you are feeding him, I do similar with mine.

Whoever is saying this to u is a total muppet and knows bugger all about horses.

I have 2 of mine living out, the stabled lot haven't got out for a week with the ice, barn full of grumps but my two cobs are happy as larry. I only have the wee pony stabled as she's lamanitic or all 3 would be out 24/7 x
 
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This bugs me, some people refuse to treat horses as individuals and forget that, especially natives, are able to withstand harsh weather.

Having said that, even natives can differ. Some may feel cold more or even not as good at keeping condition as the next one! Cruel? No, some people through umpteen rugs on when there is no need. The human race, at times, underestimates a horses ability to keep warm, and don't consider that a horse may be overweight.
 
skewbald_again said:
What's your vet like? I had a friend who got this kind of flak, and her vet obligingly came out and read the other liveries the riot act, telling them that he couldn't stop them killing their fat arse slobs with kindness and breaking their necks and their bank balances on lardy obese horses with joint problems and digestive problems and mental problems but would they kindly stop banging on at his client who happened to have the fittest horses on the yard and clearly had some kind of grip on equine nutrition, unlike the rest of them.
Mind you, he was an old boy in his own practice and didn't give a toss about getting new clients!
It was funny though.
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Oh I love it, what is it about livery yards that seems to attract numpties? There are some perfectly nice ones on my yard, but equally there are others who make me want to tear my hair out, however well intentioned they may be. I've never been on a proper livery yard before and its a revelation. Luckily we are allowed electric fencing and our own turnout, so it could be a lot worse...

Just try and comfort yourself with how well your two look compared to the others. That one works for me every time :D

You carry on just as you are OP and take no notice...
 
Meh! I can't think why you are worried - I think you know full well your horses are fine. ;) ;)

A friend of mine made a 'poor her' comment about one of mine being out in the snow a few years ago - the mare gets stiff, grumpy and colicy when in. Said friend comes from a racing/hunting yard where they hardly get any turn out - that's my idea of 'poor horses'. :rolleyes:
 
Oh Christ i'd be crucified at your yard then! My TB and 3/4 TB are both living out over winter, and the full TB has only been in a rainsheet with a fleece underneath for the last few days! They both only get fed once per day, they have molichaff cherry and pasture mix with a few carrots in but have hay ad lib.

PennyJ said:
Oh I love it, what is it about livery yards that seems to attract numpties?
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I've been thinking this lately too! I've recently moved off a big livery yard where the vast majority of the horses were hardly turned out, in 2 or 3 middle & heavyweight rugs and were left with minimal hay to last them from about 3.30pm until 7.30am the following day. When i went up at 8pm the majority of them had finished their hay and had nothing for the next 11 hours or so. That to me is cruel. The worst part is it's the yard manager who sets this routine for the full liveries and the diy's seem to follow suit. Hence the reason i'm no longer there, they didn't know their ar*e from their elbow!

I think you're doing exactly the right thing for your horses and buggar what anyone else thinks or says! :D
 
I wouldn't worry, just start having a go at them, about their horses been stabled, each to their own I've always said. I like to stable mine at night because of grazing, I'd like to keep as much as I can, so I don't have to spend hundreds to reseed yet again, so my 4 are kept on 2 small paddocks through the winter, but they do get hay and extra shortfeed while they are out and must admit they cann't wait to come in at night and the weather is changing yet again. Warm this morining, but starting to get really cold this afternoon. and my two geldings that usually muck about coming in, went straight into their stables tonight. so getting worried.
 
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