Arab x ID - anyone done this or know of any examples?

[htobago]

...or even better have any photos?

A v nice breeder is considering breeding a truly splendid ID mare to my Arab boy, so we're searching for examples of this cross.

In principle I suppose it shouldn't be all that different from the more traditional TB/ID cross? Perhaps prettier, and with the right Arab one could get better movement?

Any thoughts/examples/experiences?

 

[CBAnglo]

I rode an IDxArab and she was absolutely beautiful. She was about 16.1hh and had lovely paces.

She had an arab face (but not small - it was in proportion to her body but had a slight dish) but an ID body and temperament. She was one of the Blenheim arabs.

Can honestly say she was the best horse I have ever ridden. At 22 she was still lovely to school and sensible out hacking, but she still loved a good canter as well.

Because of her I actually ended up buying my anglo - he gave me the same sort of feeling and he is very pretty as well, but she was something special. I wished I had known her 10 years before I met her.

I know someone else who has a rose grey IDxarab and she is also a lovely horse. She is so sensible at age 5 but has lovely paces and has pretty much won every showing/dressage comp she has entered.

 

[sallyf]

Only ever met one and cant say i was keen.
No photos though .
It was grey but that could have been from either side and wasnt a nice combination of the arab flightyness combined with the slight laziness of the ID.
Before janet says anything i know not all ID's are lazy but quite a lot are.
This horse didnt gain anything from the arab movement wise and was sort of ID build with a small head that didnt fit.
Much better imho to stick with the proven cross of ID X TB or pure ID.
Sorry probably not what you wanted to hear.

 

[brightmount]

A friend with an ID mare let her run with an Arab stallion this summer but she didn't take. My ISH ran for two summers with the Arab stallion but she didn't take either! I think he only fancies Arabs and TBs!!

Anyway, I presume your breeding approach is more scientific so hope you have better luck. I have some photos of ISHxArab cross horses but not IDxArab. I think it's an interesting mix.

 

[LynneB]

Found you this filly, she is ID x Anglo Arab so not quite up to Tobago's standard, but she is a very very pretty filly and he could only add to this sort of mix I think.
http://www.benmarfarm.com/Briette06IDSHGallery.html

 

[ASM2]

Slightly strange article

but includes a pic

:

http://www.equiworld.net/uk/ezine/0702/irishhorse3.htm

Also if you scroll down below there's a small pic of an ID/arab chestnut mare:

http://useventing.com/blog/?p=226

 

[Skhosu]

Have to say I can see this going wrong, imo, as you could get such a weird combination and they are such different breeds I don't see the point?

 

[claire156]

I own a chestnut Arab mare and i sent her to a coloured ID/TB, My filly has the look of an TB in the face but her tail sticks up on a stalk higher than her mothers lol. She is around 14 hands now and will be 3 next August. She has proven she can jump as she jumps my electric fence, and she has a temperament to die for.

 

[birchave0]

Not a Arab x ID, but an Arab x CB!!!

He's now 24 and although only 15hh has turned his hand to most things!

 

[TangoCurly]

Here is a place in the USA that does that specifically - American stud farm who use their ID stallion on Arab mares . There aren't too many photos to show the results though!

 

[ASM2]

[ QUOTE ]
Have to say I can see this going wrong, imo, as you could get such a weird combination and they are such different breeds I don't see the point?

[/ QUOTE ]

Arabs have been crossed with warmbloods and thoroughbreds for years. I don't see why not an ID

.

 

[MizElz]

[ QUOTE ]
Have to say I can see this going wrong, imo, as you could get such a weird combination and they are such different breeds I don't see the point?

[/ QUOTE ]

What a strange thing to say

I see no reason why an Arab could not be crossed with an ID, or indeed, any of the slightly heavier breeds. I think it would be a lovely cross - I have had an IDxTB, but having my part bred Arab (x SF) now would certainly make me look for another with some element of Arabian blood. With an ID cross, you'd get the daintiness, endurance and elegance combined with the substance, good temperament and versatility. I can think of far worse crosses!

Oh....just to add, I saw on another forum the other day that someone had put a Highland mare to an Arab stallion. My first instinct was, 'why?' - but there again, why not? The foal turned out to be lovely - I think it is now a three year old - and had combined all the good elements from both sides. I think as long as you're not doing something obviously stupid (not horsey, but I've known someone who bred their Jack Russell bitch to a German Shepherd dog!) then there is nothing wrong. Arab x ID sounds lovely

 

[CBFan]

Sounds a lovely combination as long as both parents are sound examples of their breeds.

I'd say go for it! I'm sure there have been worse combinations...

 

[magic104]

Haven't Masons Stud crossed an ID mare to their AA stallion, foal due next year. As the arab was used to improve most breeds I dont see what's odd about it.

 

[sallyf]

[ QUOTE ]
Haven't Masons Stud crossed an ID mare to their AA stallion, foal due next year. As the arab was used to improve most breeds I dont see what's odd about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes they have but the stallion is 50% TB and 50 % Arab.
He is also very TB in type.
The mare is also small and very correct so i dont think this is nearly such an extreme cross as there is little height differance.
I dont see a problem with this cross i personally just dont think Arab X ID works or the one i have seen didnt.

 

[JanetGeorge]

[ QUOTE ]

It was grey but that could have been from either side and wasnt a nice combination of the arab flightyness combined with the slight laziness of the ID.
Before janet says anything i know not all ID's are lazy but quite a lot are.
This horse didnt gain anything from the arab movement wise and was sort of ID build with a small head that didnt fit.


[/ QUOTE ]

Janet doesn't disagree - some Irish Draughts are bone idle!!

There is a risk in ANY cross that you'll get bits that don't match from either side of the cross but all other things being equal it's a good cross IMHO. A nice 'traditional' ID mare isn't THAT different from an Arabian (except in the more modern Arabian head - and possibly bone.)

Take this ID filly, for example:

She's not a hefty lump and I can see Tobago prettying up the head a bit and giving more refinement in the neck. Her adding substance and a bit more bone. I can't see any great disaster - and if I wanted to outcross her to another breed, I'd prefer Tobago to a TB as you could end up with a VERY plain head. (I'm NOT planning to outcross her - I personally think it is a CRIME to outcross a good RID mare, they're in short supply!)

I probably wouldn't use Tobago on a big lump of an ID mare - unless she was producing pure-bred foals that were as common as muck! But the risk then would be greater of an odd mix of attributes!

You DO need to be aware that a TB or Arab on an ID will tend to produce a foal that is more TB or Arab than ID - because the TB and the Arab are much older/more established breeds. So you're better using a lighter, more modern type of ID with either - otherwise you DO risk a bit of a mish-mash.

 

[toomanyhorses26]

I had an arab x id on loan and she was amazing - turned her hand to everything, jumping,hacking ,showing and was relatively successful at the lower levels(I got her when she 16 so not much time to do much!!) temp was ab with people not so much with other horses but we don't really know what happened to her before. The only thing I would say she did end up with the big strong front end of an id and the smaller more compact back end of an arab - not the most attractive mare you could ever have laid eyes on but a true winner in my books http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=207786&l=c6d8c&id=800455152 this is the public link for this photo so hopefully it should work

 

[buzzles]

I used to ride a horse who was out of a ID mare by an Anglo Arab stallion. He was a lovely looking horse, very well put together and moved very nicely, especially for the size of him, he was about 17.2. Although he could have been extremely talented, he was just too spooky and wimpy. Apparently they couldn't get him out of the yard for months when he was first backed and hacking was a nightmare, he would just whip around and drop his shoulder at everything. He was also really clingy with other horses, out hacking and in the arena he'd just want to follow behind them or if something frightened him, he'd try and leap on top of them!! Showjumping was so difficult, everyime I tried to school him over grids/poles I'd have to go right back to basics and convince him coloured poles and blocks were not going to kill him!! He had the sort of spooky/flighty/silly temperment that gives Arabs a bad name. However he was a very good hunter, would jump anything and go all day. I think that's what he ended up doing as he was never going to be an eventer or showjumper. I should also add that I think the way he was kept and managed did nothing to help him overcome his problems. He was getting no turnout and I found out later he hadn't been turned out for about 4 months. But I also rode other horses by the same stallion and they were all spooky and wimpy, so it was obviously something inherited from the stallion as although the stallion had the talent to go very far, he just wasn't brave enough.

So I think it does depend on the stallion and mare, you could get the best of both or the worst!!

 

[JanetGeorge]

Yep - she's got a good front end - and with a slightly more elegant neck than many IDs. Of course, the ID bit might not have had a good back-end either - you can't really judge how well the cross has worked without looking at the conformation of both parents.

 

[toomanyhorses26]

no idea of what the parents looked like and as you say it could be from either parent -the proportion between the front and back did improve with work and when she came in from any time she did look like a bit of a cut and shunt bless her!!!she was an absolute horse of a lifetime for me in her own special way and if I could see both parents then I think this is a brilliant cross

 

[toomanyhorses26]

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=207784&l=d159a&id=800455152 bit better side on view - she didn't have a particular bad back end just not quite in proportion to the front - but definately didn't lack power!!!!

 

[HLB]

All anyone really has to think is that what did the Germans and Dutch do with there heavy breeds A.

Well they bred them with Arab and TB thats what

(most coming from this country i may add

) and can we judge the Olympic horses today?? well can we?? - do home work people and you will find that over 70% of warmblood breeding goes back to Arabs, TB and Natives with a little of the heavier breeds for some substance

- i have paper amount papers to prove it

I say go for it, i have Arabs, Arab X oldenburg and they are truely fab.

 

[firm]

I have a part bred Arab mare by Colman RID but I think her mother was Anglo Arab though. The mare I have was Grade A jumping in & winning 1m30 classes. Piccy attached of her aged 21 with her Lauriston filly. I love her to bits, would love another just like her & am so pleased I have her filly to keep. She is a little spooky

but a complete sweetheart

Lauriston filly now aged 2 Not sure her % Arab

but proud of it.

 

[claire156]

This is my Arab x TB/ID filly who will be 3 next August.

And one from when she was still on her mother!

 

[LynneB]

Firm, that first photo of yours is absolutely beautiful, really touching

 

[htobago]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Have to say I can see this going wrong, imo, as you could get such a weird combination and they are such different breeds I don't see the point?

[/ QUOTE ]

What a strange thing to say

I see no reason why an Arab could not be crossed with an ID, or indeed, any of the slightly heavier breeds. I think it would be a lovely cross - I have had an IDxTB, but having my part bred Arab (x SF) now would certainly make me look for another with some element of Arabian blood. With an ID cross, you'd get the daintiness, endurance and elegance combined with the substance, good temperament and versatility. I can think of far worse crosses!

Oh....just to add, I saw on another forum the other day that someone had put a Highland mare to an Arab stallion. My first instinct was, 'why?' - but there again, why not? The foal turned out to be lovely - I think it is now a three year old - and had combined all the good elements from both sides. I think as long as you're not doing something obviously stupid (not horsey, but I've known someone who bred their Jack Russell bitch to a German Shepherd dog!) then there is nothing wrong. Arab x ID sounds lovely

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree! Thanks everyone for your comments and photos - very helpful!

Speaking of Arab x Highland, here is a Tobago baby out of a very good Highland Pony mare - this colt is even more gorgeous in real life, has super movement, and even the most purist Highland people, who were against the match initially, love him and say the cross has worked very well:

So this is what he can do crossed with a 'heavy' type of mare. (This foal was bred by mother_hen on here.)

Tobago hasn't had any pure ID mares yet, but this is a filly out of a lovely TB x ID mare (1/4 ID):

Do these help at all to give an idea of what we might get from an ID mare?

 

[JanetGeorge]

[ QUOTE ]

Do these help at all to give an idea of what we might get from an ID mare?

[/ QUOTE ]

I DO like the filly out of the ISH mare - although there's not a LOT of ID to be seen (TB and Arabian breeding tends to dominate.)

From a pure-bred mare (if she's a good 'type') the result should be quite similar but with a little more bone and perhaps a bit chunkier. But again I'd guess you'd see more Arab than ID.

 

[magic104]

Tobago has done a good job, like the filly. The added advantage is there are lots of PBA/AA classes as most shows hold one. Gives you something to do when they are babies. Repeating myself, I am a fan of the PBA & AA, I have known far more good ones then bad. I think if I had a good ID type mare then would consider an Arab or AA. I often think the Arab could be the collie of the horse world. They have similar agility, intelligence, can be destructive if allowed to get bored but once on your side are so loyal to almost be one person animals. Love em or hate em Arabs have a lot to offer & I would be interested to see the outcome of this cross if it happens.

 

[sallyf]

I dont think that Emae gives you a fair idea of an ID X arab as from what i remember Emae's mother is a very quality mare to start with and shows very little ID.
I think you need to show pictures of the mare and then there respective foals .
Also foals change so dramatically that it is difficult to know how they will end up.
We had a beautiful dainty elegant foal that should have made 15.2 but this year at 2 she is over 16 hands with going on for 9 inches of bone.
Sure she still has a pretty face but they do change and there are not many foals that arnt beautiful when they are born.

 

[htobago]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont think that Emae gives you a fair idea of an ID X arab as from what i remember Emae's mother is a very quality mare to start with and shows very little ID.
I think you need to show pictures of the mare and then there respective foals .
Also foals change so dramatically that it is difficult to know how they will end up.
We had a beautiful dainty elegant foal that should have made 15.2 but this year at 2 she is over 16 hands with going on for 9 inches of bone.
Sure she still has a pretty face but they do change and there are not many foals that arnt beautiful when they are born.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry - I should have explained better - I did point out that Emae's mum is only 1/4 ID, so I was really just trying to show generally what he produces from non-Arab mares. Emae's mum is indeed a very high-quality show hunter. I think Emae was about 5 months old in these photos - but not sure. She is still very beautiful now, I think, and won her class at the NFOYS.

But I agree - the photos probably don't help much with the ID question - they were really just meant to give a rough idea of his PBA foals.