Are bits evil?!

Shantara

Shantara

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I hope this doesn't spark any dramas, but I just watched a video about natural horsemanship and it was wonderful to see! However, at the bottom of the description it said "Ban the bit!"

I wish I could ride Ned around with just a rope around his neck, but I'm afraid that just won't happen unless I got to spend every day, all day with him and even then I'm doubtful, because of his attitude and my skills.

I would love to try a bitless bridle, but I don't want to hurt his nose, as it was swollen and horrid when he first arrived at the stables and although it's gone down, it might still be a bit painful. (I now ride him without a noseband)

So basically what I'm asking is...are these people wanting a perfect world? Or should everyone strive to ride like them?

Personally: They are wanting a perfect world and it's a bit unrealistic in most cases, but I so wish I could do it!
 
Bits aren't evil, but what I find surprising is that people go to great lengths to ensure their saddle fits correctly, but don't give any consideration to whether the bit suits their horses mouth conformation. I am also amazed at how often evasive horses have their backs, teeth and saddle checked, but no one thinks to check ft the bit is the issue.

I get a lot of horses sent to me for reschooling and this year I have had to change the bit in every single one of them, to something better suited to the shape of their mouths. The results have been instant with the horses going better immediately.

I have also been using a Dr Cook bitless bridle more and more these last couple of years. I find it is is very useful in about 80% of the horses I try it on and 20% of horses hate it!

Yes, they can rub the nose a bit, but only in a handful of those I have used it on and I have been able to pad them slightly to prevent rubbing.
 
Ooh, thanks Monkers :D I will check them out! Ned doesn't seem to mind the bit, but he can be such a handful when jumping and I hate seeing him pulling so hard against the bit, I don't like to think I'm hurting him, but I also wouldn't want to hurt him or myself by trying anything too "natural" if you understand me XD Still, I might try bitless one small step at a time and see how we get on :)

EDIT: Same here PonyFeet10!
 
The noseband on a Dr Cook is fitted quite low down and fairly tight although I have been able to use it looser with some horses. If your horse has a history of pain in this area, a Dr Cook may well be a non starter for you. Try and see if you can borrow one or buy a second hand one from ebay that you can sell again if you don't like it. That said, I think on the Dr Cook website they offer a money back guarantee if you don't get on with it.

http://www.bitlessbridle.co.uk/

If you do go down this route, I would recommend the synthetic rather than the leather one. Synthetic is cheaper and much better quality that the rather cheap looking leather version.
 
Riding without a bit is not difficult, if you feel that your horse is too difficult to be ridden without one, its a problem you have, not your horse. You should be riding the horse, not its head anyway.
Bits are not evil, though some of the hands that hold them are.
 
Sorry I don't agree with that.
Some horses are simply too strong to go bitless and as previously said it's the hands that hold them that can be evil, not the bit.
The video reminded me of Parelli 'methods'...I would not want to ride around flapping ropes everywhere it looks ridiculous.
 
Pale Rider said:
Riding without a bit is not difficult, if you feel that your horse is too difficult to be ridden without one, its a problem you have, not your horse. You should be riding the horse, not its head anyway.
Bits are not evil, though some of the hands that hold them are.
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Absolutely!
 
Pale Rider said:
Riding without a bit is not difficult, if you feel that your horse is too difficult to be ridden without one, its a problem you have, not your horse.
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I don't believe it all comes down to the rider there are many factors which can affect this.
Also would not be able to compete without a bit.
 
oh yes in a perfect world we would all have the time, the seat, the hands, the ability to teach the horse how to do everything with a cotton lead or better still nothing at all. The horse would listen to us rather than its natural instinct when something terrified or excited them.

But then at the same time no one would ever be evil to another man or beast and we would all live to be 1000 because there would be no illness or disease

Back to reality we all do the best we can with the ability and knowledge we have and strive to improve both for the love of our horses


I do however agree that not enough people look at the horses mouth to decide what bit is best suited to the individual horse. Maybe it is because there are so many its confusing or because there isn't a bit fitter, like there is a saddle fitter??
 
My boy was in a bitless bridle (Dr Cook style) when I got him, and after a month I swapped him to a bit as knew eventually I wanted to compete DR so needed to find out what he was like with a bit.

Different horse. He is WAY happier in a bit. As soon as the bitless bridle goes on his head is up before you're even on. In a bit he immediately holds his head naturally - even on a hack on the buckle he's stretching down and relaxed (as opposed to the bitless which was ears up my nose even I dropped the reins). Also tried him in a halter with reins - lot of head-throwing/unhappiness as soon as I (and the experienced bitless rider who then tried after me) tried to take any form of a contact. He just doesn't like being ridden bitless, he's happier with a bit - he has a very soft snaffle mouth so is a pleasure to ride with a bit anyway, fortunately. :)

I'm sure people will say I must have been riding differently but I had lesons in the bitless, I tried every form of a 'contact' I could take (loose, firm, barely there) and no contact at all, and he never once even lowered his head in the bitless (which was, incidentally, made especially for him and fitted by the maker) or halter-bridle. As I said, a friend has ridden him and she said she thinks the same thing, he just doesn't like it - and it's definitely not a problem with her riding as she has all four of her horses transfered to halter/reins from bits, has done so brilliantly and rides them fantastically. Only have to watch her doing Adv-Med DR schooling in just a halter to see that. One of her older horses works nicely in halter/reins but was very unhappy in the bitless bridle.

I don't feel evil for putting a bit back in his mouth, especially not as it's only a snaffle and he's so soft and light in it - I don't have to 'use' the bit to get him to work nicely, he does that naturally. I think it's much nicer for him to have a bit in his mouth which is barely touched than to fight with him in a bitless or halter/reins. In the bit he'll take aids from my seat, legs - even barely have to think some things and he follows (will now do most things on the buckle with no contact). In a bitless he ignores those other aids and is just grumpy and, quite frankly since I know what he's like in a bit now, unpleasant.

Bitless is just not for every horse - it's definitely for my boy.
 
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Pale Rider said:
Riding without a bit is not difficult, if you feel that your horse is too difficult to be ridden without one, its a problem you have, not your horse. You should be riding the horse, not its head anyway.
Bits are not evil, though some of the hands that hold them are.
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I agree with this - you control the horse by training it to respond to cues. You can't force it to stop or turn, whatever bit you put in its mouth. It takes time to train a horse to be ridden in a neck rope - you certainly can't just get on and do it but I know plenty of people who had horses previously labelled 'difficult' or 'dangerous' who can ride in just a neck rope once they learnt how and taught the horse what the cues meant.

That said, I don't think bits are evil. They can be misused. There are some I would never put in my horse's mouth (e.g. single jointed or twisted bit as they are painful) but we have a myler which is shaped to her mouth and we are learning to use it to enhance our communication.

Also you need something on your horse's head whether a bit or hackamore to ride on the roads - I think you would probably get stopped if you did it in just a neck string!
 
Monkers said:
Bits aren't evil, but what I find surprising is that people go to great lengths to ensure their saddle fits correctly, but don't give any consideration to whether the bit suits their horses mouth conformation. I am also amazed at how often evasive horses have their backs, teeth and saddle checked, but no one thinks to check ft the bit is the issue.
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This! As owners we owe it to our horses' to research the actions of each bit before we use them and to check the fit and shape with the confirmation of the mouth. It amazes me that people still think that a snaffle is a mild bit! In the wrong hands any bit can be so painful to the horse and it would be lovely if they could all go bitless, but that is unrealistic.
 
Bits are not really evil what I don't like about them is the nut Craker effect which if you put the bit in-between the crease of you elbow you will fill the effect
If used by novice people then I would simply just use a snaffle as many other bit are a potentially nasty in non experienced hands
If you are a experience rider who over bits , puts a smaller bit in or causes any discomfort in the mouth while riding then I Surgest that person goes back and learns and educates about bits and the uses again
Many horses can use the rope effect a girl who backed my horse uses it on all her horses
But I think that is by time and effort on her part
, what I would what to know is , would your insurance cover you if you decided to ride out and horse decided to bolt or shy into a on coming vehicle
And you was under no control because of rope around neck sounds good to achieve something like that but nothing I would what to risk !!
 
What utter rubbish. It's the hands at the end of the reins that are the problem. I've seen some pretty horrific handing with those pressure halters too come to think of it.
 
A bald slogan like 'Ban the Bit' is the lazy way out - so much easier to chant it than to really study bits and their actions, let alone learn how to use them.

No, bits are not evil. As long as riders understand the action of what they are using, and the horse is happy with it (they are very quick to let you know if you listen to them). Read up on the different types, and the different types of bitless bridles as the actions of those are potentially just as harsh if not harsher - have a good look at many different sorts of bits and work out the mechanics for yourself, for example, where does the port move when that curb is used, where do the links lie in a horses mouth on that french link etc etc.

As for riding bridleless or with just a string round the neck, I like to see it too. It doesn't mean renouncing all use of bits at all times though - in fact I had a lesson last week on a hot young Welshie where my RI had me leave the reins on the buckle end and just use seat and legs to turn, change pace etc. It was fab, and does wonders for your riding - it is far from easy though!
 
would rather ride in a stronger bit and use it softly (I've got a french link snaffle but swap to a dutch gag for hacking or jumping) than use a bitless and haul on her nose, or indeed a 'weak' bit and constantly haul on her mouth. half halt in a stronger bit, job done.
 
With the huge variety of bits available there is really no excuse for not paying the same attention to bitting as fitting your saddle (or colour coding your equine's accessories!)

Bitless is not the be all and end all, but can help some horses and works well in some disciplines.

However it would be worth noting that Dr Cooks has gained a huge following in happy hackers and is not often seen in competition.

Having got one myself I'm not a fan of the Dr cooks as I think the aids are unsubtle and crude - I prefer a bosal if given a choice as a light aid can be used. That said I haven't put a huge amount of training into the dr cooks, but can seamlessly change to an English hackamore with most of my horses,
 
Whether you use a bit or a bitless bridle you owe it to your horse and yourself to understand what you are using and what effect it has on your horse.

Bits are placed in the mouth which is a very sensitive area and which part of the mouth it acts on depends on the style of bit, which noseband is used with it, the position of the horse's head and the rider's hand. bits are made of various materials and although the materials used are mostly supposedly stable I am sure over time certain materials can leach into the horse's bloodstream.

Bitless bridles act on the external areas of the horse's head, which areas depends on the style of bridle. Problems arise when they are fitted incorrectly, the noseband on a cross-under bridle should never ever be fitted tightly and never too low, it fits on the premaxillary notch, if you do not know where this is then find out.

Instructions and information on all of these items is readily available and two individuals can read the same instructions and follow them differently.

The actions of bits and bitless bridles are not the same and you cannot teach your horse to work in an outline in the same way.

Your horse will always tell you what he can cope with.

I would say the human is the evil one - horses were never designed by nature to be ridden. It is a privilege they permit us to do so we must always respect them for this reason.
 
How can a piece of metal be evil? :confused: Surely it's what you do with them that can hurt horses very much imo and make horses resist them and deaden their mouths. In my numpty opinion a horse has to be taught to respond to aids and that includes pressure of the bit if you use one. A bit is NOT imo for control it's for communication, if you need to rely on pull/force or use a severe (more painful) bit to control your horse you are putting both of you at risk. Horses are much stronger than us and will always be able to out pull us so I believe in training rather than try and 'control' them with pain and brute force.
I am of course a domineering numpty to many, so work this post out. :eek: Even a numpty like me can work out that horses are stronger than us and a piece of metal (or other resistive (sp) material) pulling or poking very hard in the mouth is going to bloomin hurt.
Put one in your mouth and get someone to pull as hard as some do on it and see. Just stop and think how hard you are pulling when you're bracing in the stirrups and leaning back. Don't forget the spurs and stick to make sure you also keep moving forward. :rolleyes:
Oh yes and the crank nose band to make sure the horse can't 'resist' the bit!

Mta. Of course there are going to be odd occasions where for safety a pull has to be taken. I believe there are techniques that can be learned for an emergency stop.
 
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Interesting thread! I was playing a game with my horse yesterday, with the goal being for me to keep my horse's mouth closed! I took his noseband off so I could see exactly what was happening and tried so hard to stay out of his mouth. I have soft hands and he has a soft mouth but he is still prone to opening it at what I consider to be a light touch.

Boy was that a wake up call for me! I kept making my hands the very last option and had to keep thinking round the problem. Very difficult and a real wake up call, however I'll be sticking at it :)
 
honey-bees said:
I don't believe it all comes down to the rider there are many factors which can affect this.
Also would not be able to compete without a bit.
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I agree it does all come down to the hands however I think I am right in saying you can compete in BSJA without a bit and also in the SJ and XC sections of BE just not affiliated dressage?

I like the sentiment of the OP post though as I think it is a goal I would like to strive for one day, if the equine partner is happy with that :p. I think its admirable to compete in what your horse is happy in rather than what everyone else is wearing (that horse SJing with just a bit and reins springs to mind and the teamchasers in pink headcollars) but horses for courses and all.
 
I don't know where this bull***** idea came from that bitless bridles or even riding in a headcoller is kinder.
I was once helping at a fun ride, and part of the ride involved going down a bit of the beach. Obviously people cantered along here and one women got bolted with. Her horse was wearing a hackamore and she pulled so hard she fractured her horse's nasal bone.

There are horrific injuries with all sorts of bit and bridles and most bitless bridles can be VERY severe if used incorrectly. You can damage your horses nasal passages etc with a bitless bridle...
so as some of you said, find what suits your horse, fit it correctly and never yank or have overly harsh hands.
Im my opinion bits and bitless bridles are just as cruel or kind as each other, but some horses prefer one or the other.
I have also seen someone yank a horse so hard in a headcoller at Wigton horse sales that they drew blood. :(
 
I do believe there are some pretty hideous bits of kit available out there, but again, it comes down to the riders hands but more importantly the conformation of the mouth.

IMO Time and patience needs to be taken to assess the horse's mouth thoroughly and use a bit that best suits it, not you!

When you do get it right your horse will thank you for it.
 
It's very interesting to see all the opinions here!

I don't think the bit I have on Ned is ill-fitting or painful really, he just gets so funny sometimes. He'll canter sideways to try and get back to the herd, but I'm gradually managing to get a bit softer with him.
I have been told to "LET GO OF HIS FACE!!" on youtube, but honestly, I'd loved to have seen them ride him without a tight rein.
I mean look at him!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCU5lHPkbMM
He's strong and unbelievably bouncy! He's also got a fear of being alone.
Sadly I only get one ride a week with him, but once work quiets down a bit, I hope to do more work to get him around the jumps quietly.

I don't think I would EVER ride him anywhere near the roads in a rope, or in the fields, just in the school, perhaps :P
 
Bits aren't evil, but what I find surprising is that people go to great lengths to ensure their saddle fits correctly, but don't give any consideration to whether the bit suits their horses mouth conformation. I am also amazed at how often evasive horses have their backs, teeth and saddle checked, but no one thinks to check ft the bit is the issue.
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Quite right. Anyone riding in a bit needs to look at the tongue, the hard palate, the bars and lips - look for sore tender spots, and petechiae (tiny broken blood vessels) that indicate the bit is wrong - and do this every few days after riding.

Bits are not evil, but riders do like to balance on them

I ditched the bit years ago - and we use only soft rope hackamores. Most times the reins are not held, they are on the neck just under our hands if needed to ask for something. if we do ask, it is simply the rein weight.

The exception is when we are driving and we have not the seat connection.

Stopping a horse is about relationship and balance and asking in the right way - not about pulling on the mouth.

Took me 30 years of riding to learn that - I hope it takes all of you much less! :D
 
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