Are hackamore's harsh?

katie_and_toto

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I know it's a bit of a 'a snaffle can be just as harsh as a pelham in the wrong hands' sort of thing :rolleyes: But my mum used to ride her pony in an English hackamore and says it was fab!

Toto is very fussy in his mouth, he's only really comfortable in a Myler. He's in a hanging cheek low barrel snaffle for everything at the moment, and a drop noseband. For fast work or xc he has a D ring correctional port with a grackle. I'd like to try him bitless for jumping, he would probably stay in the Myler for flatwork though, as he does dressage with my sister and you cannot compete bitless. Toto isn't strong at home but can be sharp and spooky out and about, and with hacking. He tries to get his mouth open when he's in a silly mood, and crosses his jaw when xc'ing, hence the drop/grackle.
I've been riding for 6 years now and have quite light hands. Toto is pretty sensitive and I ride him mostly with voice aids, I don't really use my reins that much at home! I thought about the Dr.Cooks cross under bridles, but I can't imagine him liking the 'head hugging' action of it. Would you say I should English Hackamore or an Dr.Cook/Scawbrig etc?

Thanks :)
 

ofcourseyoucan

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hackamores can be very harsh, depending on how tight they are and the length of the shank! wouldnt be a choice i would make, with so many bits around to choose from! i would get his teeth done (yes again!!) and try some different bits and noseband combinations. most horses go softer without a drop or grackle, and go back to basic transitions and circles. if you want to try a hackamore i would borrow one before you buy one! to see if you and the horse find it beneficial. as you point out not suitable for dressage!
 

TarrSteps

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They're like bits - leverage increases force so if you go with a "straight pull" one it depends on material, fit and how it's used. If you go for a "mechanical" one, all of the above plus length of the shanks.

I'm assuming, btw, when you say an English hackamore you mean one with shanks, yes? I ask because in North America that's a German hackamore, or maybe a jumping hackamore, were as the "English" hackamore is just a leather covered straight pull. But it seems to be different here, which strikes me as odd but hey ho. :)

People sometimes drastically underrate how much force a leverage "bit" applies. Simplified somewhat, the further away from the bit/fulcrum the rein is attached, vs how far above that point the bridle is attached, the more the force of the hand is multiplied. So, for example, most pelhams multiply force by somewhere around 2-2.5:1 which means what feels like 5lbs of pressure in your hand - pull - feels like 10-15lbs on the horse's mouth. So the rider can apply what feels to him/her like mild pressure but by the time it gets to the horse it's anything but. By the same token the horse can be pulling hard but it doesn't feel so to the rider, which is obviously why riders like them! ;) Given the length of some hackamore shanks, there must be considerable pressure. Granted, it's on the nose not the delicate structures of the mouth but still . . .

That said, some horses genuinely do prefer them because of mouth problems or other issues, which is why so many improve in "straight pulls", Dr Cook's bridles and similar. Personally, I'd start without the leverage for the same reason I wouldn't go straight to a pelham.

And yes, not an option for dressage, showing etc. But people have used them successfully to retrain horses to eventually accept the bit more correctly, so never say never. Be aware, too, that with a shanked hackamore you will loose a lot of lateral action/steering - there's a reason cow horses wear those curbs and neck rein. :D
 
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Sol

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I used a hackamore on my 1st pony. We went through many different bits, and eventually tried the english hackamore (although finding a welsh sec. A sized one was a pain!) - brilliant! He was so much easier, so much happier :)
He's now in a peewee bit though, which he also seems happy and comfortable in - in fact, every horse I've tried it on has liked it. Might be an option for xc??
I also rate kineton nosebands. If he responds well to nose pressure, this with a snaffle he's comfortable in offers both a bit extra braking power, and a bit of relief for the horse, by lifting the bit off the tongue & supporting it, so that the full pressure of the reins is actually spread across the nose as well as the mouth. Great noseband! :D
 

BronsonNutter

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Depends how you use it ;) I sometimes hack out in a hackamore (ie. after Wilby's fun day out hound exercising when he was a little bit sore round his mouth) and if he doesn't pull then I don't touch it. Never had a problem with it for hacking but steering was more difficult in it for jumping - and I'm pretty sure it's not allowed under PC rules for XC for safety reasons?
Mine has pretty short shanks and lots of dead sheep so is reasonably kind in comparison to some that I've seen (I think :))
 
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