Are horse's naughty or is it pain related?

[Ali27]

I have the most genuine, Ginger mare who can be quirky but tries her hardest at all times! I took her to a jumping clinic at the weekend and she had several stops! Instantly, I knew it was pain related! My instructor agreed as he has never seen her stop! Got the Osteopathic vet - Tom Beech out today and so glad that I did! She was so sore all over 😪 I wonder how many people would have said that the horse was being naughty and give them a walloping for not jumping?

 

[Kezzabell2]

my horse is always in pain when he acts up! don't get me wrong, he's a young boy and will try it on but when he's really in pain he will plant and damn right refuse to move and if I push him he will rear up! I've spent a long time and lots of money fixing him and I now know when its pain! a few months ago, I had a right battle getting him to hack alone, one day, it was out of the blue as he been good for a few months, once I eventually got him going I asked for trot and it was clear he was lame, turns out it was an abscess, but explained the random bout of refusing to go

 

[Goldenstar]

Why is she in pain that's the important question

 

[Ali27]

Why is she in pain that's the important question

Vet is trying to get to the bottom of that but she is ulcer prone so that could be causing it!
But how many people blame behaviour such as napping, refusing jumps, rearing, bucking on naughtiness rather than pain?

 

[Sukistokes2]

I think it's a rare rider who would not rule out pain before deciding the horse was being bad.

 

[SpringArising]

I don't think it's always pain but I also don't think that horses are ever just naughty for the sake of it or to "have a strop". That's way too anthropomorphic.

It's either pain, not understanding something, fear/anxiety/adrenaline or excitement.

 

[jaffa2311]

Agree with above.

I have a rising 2 year old, and there is no way her leaping/bucking/rearing whilst being led in hand is pain related.

I personally think mine does it because of anxiety and adrenalin induced excitement. I guess the same could be applied to a ridden horse too.

 

[Dubsie]

I don't think it's always pain but I also don't think that horses are ever just naughty for the sake of it or to "have a strop". That's way too anthropomorphic.

It's either pain, not understanding something, fear/anxiety/adrenaline or excitement.

Dunno, but maybe ponies are another matter? Or mares? Daughter's first loan pony liked to drop a shoulder and run out, or stop dead to ditch her. Or jump the wing rather than the jump. She preferred no rider =opportunity to eat grass (we had no school), so I think it was naughty - she'd had back, teeth saddle etc everything checked. Took her to first show (in an arena so no grass) and she was so interested in everything else going on around her she just followed instructions & to jump as she arrived at the jumps she didn't have time to think about avoidance tactics, jumped the lot perfectly at a steady canter = daughter won her first ever class!

 

[Auslander]

I don't think it's always pain but I also don't think that horses are ever just naughty for the sake of it or to "have a strop". That's way too anthropomorphic.

It's either pain, not understanding something, fear/anxiety/adrenaline or excitement.

I think we need to not think of behaviour we don't want as "naughty", because, as you say, horses don't behave in the same way as humans. What we think of as naughty is how a horse expresses how he's feeling. Whilst pain/fear/etc can be what they're expressing, I think its wrong to assume that every demonstration of "naughty" behaviour is related to physical or mental discomfort. Horses like to cut loose and have a happy buck/leap/bounce in the field, so stands to reason that they will sometimes do the same under saddle if they feel the urge. We think it's naughty - they just think that life is fun.

 

[baran]

Agree with above.

I have a rising 2 year old, and there is no way her leaping/bucking/rearing whilst being led in hand is pain related.

I personally think mine does it because of anxiety and adrenalin induced excitement. I guess the same could be applied to a ridden horse too.

Agree with the above. Any animal can be "naughty" and if it is a one-off I would not assume it was pain-related. I drove my pony out on a windy day when we hadn't been out for a while. We pulled in at a farm gate to let a van pass, as we have done many times before. One of the cows came rushing up to look at us and my pony tried to take off. He isn't the slightest bit bothered by cows under normal circumstances but the combination of enjoying being out and the wind made him decide that this was incredibly scarey and he should make a run for it. He wasn't successful and decided not to bother trying it when we had to pull in later on!

 

[Goldenstar]

Of course some horses are more willing braver cautious than others they have a character .
But when a bold reliable horse starts stopping there will be a reason .

 

[Lammy]

I can tell when mine is just having fun - he squeals before broncing around like a lunatic, that's just him kicking his heels up and letting loose. He had a day in yesterday so his lunging session that evening was full of excitable bouncing and was definitely just expressing his excitement and releasing some energy.

Pain and discomfort obviously does come into it with some horses but it's not always the issue, it could be learned behaviour, anxiety, etc.

 

[tallyho!]

I think it's a rare rider who would not rule out pain before deciding the horse was being bad.

You only have to nip down to the local arena to see this in action... I agree with you, there's always something the matter.

 

[Goldenstar]

J is seriously quirky about jumping but when he was not right It was easy to spot as he felt different .

 

[ljohnsonsj]

Stopping/napping/rearing we always investigate pain. Ours skip/buck/hop/bronc about when being ridden, but they are fit,fresh showjumping horses and it is just their love for life!

 

[huskydamage]

Mine has only bucked with me once in 15years and I found out after she had a nasty foot absess. I would always think naughty behaviour ridden was pain related with her. On the ground she is always miserable to everyone though and there is nothing wrong with her at all. In fact when she's been ill she tends to go all calm and sweet.

 

[millikins]

I dislike using the word "naughty" to describe any animal. Being naughty requires the mental capacity to know right from wrong and I don't believe animals have that. So it is up to us to understand whether undesirable behaviour is high spirits, pain, attention seeking, evasion etc.

 

[Goldenstar]

Fatty is defiantly a naughty horse .

 

[Leo Walker]

I think it's a rare rider who would not rule out pain before deciding the horse was being bad.

Sadly I find its the opposite. Its a rare rider who looks for a cause rather than just trying to ride on through it.

 

[milliepops]

I dislike using the word "naughty" to describe any animal. Being naughty requires the mental capacity to know right from wrong and I don't believe animals have that. So it is up to us to understand whether undesirable behaviour is high spirits, pain, attention seeking, evasion etc.

I also don't like the use of 'naughty' for most horses - it is often used when people believe their horses are deliberately winding them up etc.
But I do think they know right from wrong, in the sense of taught/learnt behaviour

e.g. ever seen a horse nip someone and then pull a face that says they knew it was the wrong thing to do?
Or even very simply - mine know not to leave the stable if the door is open, without being asked... if they take a step towards the door and I say 'noooooo' then they look sheepish and step back.

 

[mle22]

I have definitely had 'naughty' ponies! One in particular used to jump then about two strides later stop and put his head down so that the six year old riding him would slide off down his neck. He would then stuff his face with grass. He also gave me my one and only experience of clear animal communication when we arrived at a small show and I clearly 'heard' him plan to dump his child in the sj ring and take himself out of the field and down the road - which is precisely what he did. I swear I heard him plan it in advance!

 

[asterope]

I think what most people class as 'naughty' behaviour is simply avoidance behaviour/the horse finding a way to get out of working and do something much easier. Pony puts head down, child falls off, pony can now eat (and not have to work for a moment!) Equally, some horses will "have a strop" if they are asked to do something that's taxing or that they find difficult (not necessarily to the point of discomfort). If a horse learns that by bucking they get to stop working (because, say, their rider gets scared and chooses to get off or to do something easier) and therefore bucks every time they don't want to do something, then that - in my book - is naughty behaviour.

 

[tallyho!]

Sadly I find its the opposite. Its a rare rider who looks for a cause rather than just trying to ride on through it.

Thats what suzistokes basically said...?

 

[Leo Walker]

Thats what suzistokes basically said...?

No she didnt. "She said I think it's a rare rider who would not rule out pain before deciding the horse was being bad"

Whereas my experience is that its a rare rider who would rule out pain before deciding the horse was being bad.

 

[twiggy2]

Whereas my experience is that its a rare rider who would rule out pain before deciding the horse was being bad.

Sadly I agree

 

[Mister Ted]

Agree with the above. Any animal can be "naughty" and if it is a one-off I would not assume it was pain-related. I drove my pony out on a windy day when we hadn't been out for a while. We pulled in at a farm gate to let a van pass, as we have done many times before. One of the cows came rushing up to look at us and my pony tried to take off. He isn't the slightest bit bothered by cows under normal circumstances but the combination of enjoying being out and the wind made him decide that this was incredibly scarey and he should make a run for it. He wasn't successful and decided not to bother trying it when we had to pull in later on!

Maybe it was scary for him.The wind distorts their hearing and weve heard of horses having the wind in their tails when its wild weather.They can spook at the slightest thing.

 

[ycbm]

Read it wrong.

 

[my bfg]

Every unusual example of unwanted behaviour should be treated as something that needs investigating.
For example:
Emily once had a proper broncing fit and got me off, it was found to be pain related.
She was also quite addicted to the menage and during mounting would head in there as fast as possible, often with a buck, no reason for this found except excitement.
Tilly has got me off twice, once as she caught sight of me adjusting my stirrup leather, shot off, bucked me off then stood physically shaking, this was fear
She also shot off and bucked me off after a feed change aggravated her ulcers, as scoping proved, this was pain
Every horse is different, they all have their quirks, but anything unusual should be investigated

 

[ycbm]

I think it's a rare rider who would not rule out pain before deciding the horse was being bad.

Sadly I don't. Not rare at all in my experience.

I have one friend riding a horse with a sore back, another that looks a shoe-in for ulcers, and every time I go to a public event I see lame horses all over the place. When my own horse was in pain I was advised to 'get a man on him' by an affiliated dressage judge and told I didn't have the balls to ride him by an experience forum member (they no longer post).

I see and know a lot of people whose attitude is to smack the horse and only if that doesn't work, consider whether something else is going on. I'm not perfect, I've done it myself and I'm probably still a bit quick to blame the horse, but I get better as I get older.

 

[fairyclare]

I see and know a lot of people whose attitude is to smack the horse and only if that doesn't work, consider whether something else is going on. I'm not perfect, I've done it myself and I'm probably still a bit quick to blame the horse, but I get better as I get older.

This!!

I have had a good number of issues with my chestnut mare this year (2016) and for a very short time I allowed myself to wonder if others were right and she was just being naughty - WRONG! Horses do not just 'be naughty' they just don't do it - excited, anxious, misunderstanding etc etc, but not naughty.
As ycbm says, I too am probably still too quick to blame the horse, but we are all learning all the time and luckily, horses are very forgiving creatures.