Are males naturally better riders because.....

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seadog

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As I dont have a horse to see to atm I have found myself thinking.:rolleyes:
From what I've seen men are naturally better riders than women. Whether you agree or not the percentage of top riders that are male speak for themselves.
It could be because they are more competitive and stronger.

BUT, could it could also be because.....they cannot get away with a bad seat!
How oftern do you see a man riding of any level that tips fowards?! (obv not talking about sj or xc 2 point seat)
They have their man parts stopping them from being able to tip toward as most novices do, they literally HAVE to sit down on their seat bones from the minute they sit on a horse otherwise they'd be seriously swashing their unmentionables! :eek: They are never able to let this bad habit develop but instead are forced to ride with a nice deap seat from the begining, and just make it stronger through practise and muscle development.

Just some ponderings from me, please discus :D
 
I teach a few men/boys that tip forward! God knows how they manage it! :eek:

The opposite is true though, in an attempt not to squish their bits I've seen loads of men riding right at the back of the cantle with their lower leg shoved ridiculously far forward.

One of the other instructors and I were discussing the fact that out of those that come to riding later in life, in general the menfolk seem to progress quicker. No idea why mind you, maybe they are naturally more confident.
 
I've always wondered that :D

I think men have a stronger leg position because of the way they must have to sit - although I think male and female riders can get tunes out of different horses.

That said, I'm not about to stereotype male and female riders, some men are very feminine, and some women are decidedly masculine :eek:
 
I'm sure I read somewhere that anatomically men are better designed to ride.. Something to do with the pelvis...
 
kirstyhen said:
I teach a few men/boys that tip forward! God knows how they manage it! :eek:

The opposite is true though, in an attempt not to squish their bits I've seen loads of men riding right at the back of the cantle with their lower leg shoved ridiculously far forward.

One of the other instructors and I were discussing the fact that out of those that come to riding later in life, in general the menfolk seem to progress quicker. No idea why mind you, maybe they are naturally more confident.
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I am loving the "later in life " bit, made me feel sooooo much better :D


Kev
 
One of the best male rider/trainers in the world said that girls are the better riders as a group because they are less reliant on strength and have to use better technique and feel.
 
Keep in mind that all the modern schools of equitation, including saddlery etc. are male-oriented because they're martial in origin. So what we think of as "ideal" is actually a position and way of riding that is conformationally easier for more men than for women, but we're so far from the origins of it no one really sees it that way anymore. For a large chunk of history many people believed that riding astride was dangerous for WOMEN . . . :rolleyes:

Also, as in every other important aspect of life (keeping mind that horses have only recently stopped being a huge part of general society) men have dominated politically, socially etc. We're not too many generations on from a point when really only men could receive a thorough education in equitation, ride at the highest levels etc. So the masters favoured men, their students favoured men in their turn etc - it was "natural" for men to dominate teaching, training and competition. The first woman rode in the Olympics in 1952!

So part of the reason men have dominated the competitive aspects of the sport is, despite the smaller numbers at the grassroots level, historical. The numbers have been getting more even within my lifetime.

Also, I think men who stay with the sport tend to be very dedicated and, certainly in North America, they often have an advantage in the highest levels Equitation, which is often the gateway to a jumper career. There also can be strength involved in riding (I'm tall and naturally fairly strong and there are things that are just easier for me, especially with large, strong competition horses), although women can more than make up for the discrepancy with good fitness etc and there is a diminishing return with weight, balance etc. so the advantage is not necessarily in being bigger.

What I do think is interesting is, per capita, the number of gay men who excel in the sport. I think there are social reasons for that, too, especially in North America, but I've heard more than one person put forward the theory that they more often combine strength (which isn't the be and end all of riding, obviously, but can make SOME aspects easier) with a more subtle psychological approach, plus they have less to prove. Maybe, maybe not.
 
i think the fact that it's about 50/50 men/women when it comes to the best riders in the world, shows that anatomy makes absolutely no difference at all. It's also worth taking into account that some of those women are fairly small and not as strong as the average man. If you have to use guile to control 1/2 tonne of excited horse, you're going to develop some good techniques!
BIG generalisation alert, apologies in advance! imho more men are 'driven' imho, few have the luxury of thinking of it as a nice pastime, they're the breadwinner (or going to be) and have to treat it as a career, whereas imho a higher proportion of women are able to be less 'driven' about it... apologies if that gets taken the wrong way though, i know there are lots of very driven women riders too. anyway, those 'driven' men tend to push harder for the results, just mho though.
 
To further TarrSteps point, I remember the British SJ chef d'equipe (his name escapes me) in the 90s saying he didn't want women on the team because he "couldn't give them a good boll*cking"!! That was only 15 years ago or thereabouts. I think that's about the time I started to prefer eventing with the likes of Mary King, Ginny Leng, Karen Dixon...and so on.

Women do seem to excel in UK eventing, which you would expect to be the most male-oriented based on OP's theory plus the assumption that men would be stronger and braver. It's also worth bearing in mind that, in many countries, horse riding is still a male-dominated sport.
 
j1ffy said:
To further TarrSteps point, I remember the British SJ chef d'equipe (his name escapes me) in the 90s saying he didn't want women on the team because he "couldn't give them a good boll*cking"!!
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Was that Ronnie Masarella?

Now I come to think about it, I never really thought about the number of women on the teams in showjumping as opposed to eventing at that time.

Isabelle
 
I think that was a pretty common feeling. I certainly know women who rode at the upper levels not all that long ago who were heavily pressured to offer their top rides to men for international competition, on the feeling they wouldn't be "up to it".

And, as mentioned, there are still countries (some of the "emerging powers" judging by the WEGs and last Olympics) who don't - and likely won't - have women riding for them any time soon. . .
 
TarrSteps said:
What I do think is interesting is, per capita, the number of gay men who excel in the sport. I think there are social reasons for that, too, especially in North America, but I've heard more than one person put forward the theory that they more often combine strength (which isn't the be and end all of riding, obviously, but can make SOME aspects easier) with a more subtle psychological approach, plus they have less to prove. Maybe, maybe not.
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I have often wondered this too! (What would the social reasons be, though?)

As for the OP, I remember that Hubertus Schmidt once said at a clinic that men have naturally better seats because of the difference of a man's and a woman's pelvis.

I also remember seeing ads on Dressage Today advertising dressage saddles specifically designed for female riders (I think Heike Kemmer was the celebrity starring in their ads).
 
kezimac said:
they are also usually stronger through their core.
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This is a big thing. a lot of women aren't including me

Also women do go off and have children etc, I know some are now carrying on after children. however often because of time and money a choice has to be made, yes there are still those that can do both but it does cut down the number of women that get that far.

as for men not leaning forward, I have seen just as many at low level competition who ride as badly as some women including tipping forward and bouncing all over the place :eek:
 
seadog said:
Whether you agree or not the percentage of top riders that are male speak for themselves.
It could be because they are more competitive and stronger.
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My theory is that its because they aren't as emotionally involved with their horses, so if the horse isn't good enough a man will just sell it and get another one, where-as a women is more likely to have become emotionally attached and will put her emotions above her competition aspirations.
 
Leg_end said:
I'm sure I read somewhere that anatomically men are better designed to ride.. Something to do with the pelvis...
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Ive read the same thing, i think it was about sitting trot and how their pelvis is alot different to ours to allow them to sit better then us..
 
A good instructor once said to me to try and think of a rider that I really admired and try to emulate their style. In the same breath she said not to even think about a male, because no female could ever physically ride like a male because of the differences in our bodies.

I don't think that means that men are better than us, just that they are different physically and perhaps mentally. I think that women more than hold their own against men in the competitive field.

Women can be more empathetic and cannot rely on pure strength to ride, if anything that makes us better!! (Please ignore the sweeping generalisation!)
 
There could be a variety of reasons why there are more men at top levels. It may just be that men are more interested in competing, whereas women are more interested in bonding with and looking after the horses or it may be that socially men have more opportunities for funding and support than women, or culturally that boys are taught they should be the best. Whatever it is, the trend does seem to be changing with more and more women demonstrating that they can compete at the top of the sport on an equal footing to men. This seems to be the case in many areas which were previously male dominated, e.g. when I taught in the medical school in some cohorts 9 out of 10 students were women, so while consultants were primarily men, med students were primarily women and a new female dominated generation was coming up through the ranks (not surprising really as girls tend to mature sooner than boys, so tend to have better school results, a more focused approach to their careers early on and do better at Uni interviews).
 
I watched most of the novice/open JAS at both Vale View and Manor Farm a couple of weeks ago and it was very apparent that the men were in general much better at keeping a balanced forward rhythm. A lot of the girls got very hooky when not meeting a fence on a perfect stride - which almost invariably made a little problem turn into a much bigger one.

As a woman with a son and a daughter, I would have to say that personal experience would back this up!

However I think many women are better at 'asking' rather than 'telling'.
 
Interesting question and not one I can answer personally as there are a lot more experienced people than me who have posted on here. However, whilst fence judging at a PC Area Tet last year, at a rather meaty corner fence, my friend and I made some very interesting observations. Taking out of the equation the minis and the junors, the intermediates and open riders were very interesting. The boys were very gung ho in their riding, really riding forward, with some very, very untidy, but obviously effective xc positions in evidence. In contrast with the girls, they were much neater riders, some were gung ho and all rode forward. However, the girls' riding was much more sympathetic and stylish when compared to the boys. To be honest, I didnt know who won, it wasnt our PC, so I stayed for a quick beer afterwards and shot home, so didnt know if the winner was male or female.

From personal experience, the males of my daughters age who are out eventing are much less involved with their horses as well. While my daughter loves the white socks off her mare and its obvious, her male counterparts dont seem to be as involved. I witnessed this very well at the PC National Champs - we had a couple of males on our eventing and dressage teams. While the girls were very up for cuddling and fussing their horse, the boys couldnt be fussed themselves - they ended up with their parents doing it all. My daughter and her female friends did it all, and I quite often saw them cuddling their beloved horses, which I didnt see any of the boys doing.
 
My son (who is now 6ft 2 @15 years old) was always at a terrible disadvantage as a child because whenever he established balance, he would grow a foot & his shoulders would broaden. He was always wobbly & constantly falling off. He also constantly outgrew his ponies as soon as he started getting to grips with them.

He loves riding - as much as a boy can, & loves his horse. ie I do the horse - he enjoys it. He is extremely competitive & due to his general enthusiasm for sport, has a great attitude to competing - no nerves, very cool headed.

I have heard that men benefit from having slimmer thighs, allowing them to sit deeper. Certainly my son has really strong effective legs. He may have problems later when he gets too muscular though.

he wants to event, but I think finding horses will be a challenge.
 
I read an article the other day that overall women have the better technique and tidiness, but males are very much more confident, which the horse picks up on and reacts upon. My instructor believes a lot of women are very good riders, but their nerves and their more emotional side hold them back - e.g, they are more likely to look for 'spooky' fences than males are. Also, mens pride is quite dominant, and so they're more likely to practice until perfect before they go and perform.
 
siennamum said:
My son (who is now 6ft 2 @15 years old) was always at a terrible disadvantage as a child because whenever he established balance, he would grow a foot & his shoulders would broaden. He was always wobbly & constantly falling off. He also constantly outgrew his ponies as soon as he started getting to grips with them.

He loves riding - as much as a boy can, & loves his horse. ie I do the horse - he enjoys it. He is extremely competitive & due to his general enthusiasm for sport, has a great attitude to competing - no nerves, very cool headed.

I have heard that men benefit from having slimmer thighs, allowing them to sit deeper. Certainly my son has really strong effective legs. He may have problems later when he gets too muscular though.

he wants to event, but I think finding horses will be a challenge.
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I've got just the horse for him! I will finish off what I want to do, then loan him to you for W ;)
 
A la French and Saunders, yes! I know you have been practicing, and I now have the fat hairy pony, so basically we are all set. Marvellous.
 
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