Are some people just never any good?

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Neptune

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To be able to complete a novice test with a reasonable 60%+ score. To be able to jump a metre show jump course and to compete in say a BE 90 ODE. I think is pretty do able for majority of horses, none of it is over demanding, obviously need to be fit and well etc etc. but none of the above is really out of the realms of any horse.

So why can I never get there? I have been riding for over 20 years now. Never had the advantage of having a pony of my own as a child riding only once a week in a riding school so only really came into horse ownership as an adult and started to realise the true meaning of riding. Always having regular lessons with various different trainers over the years yet still not getting anywhere.

We can not seem to get above prelim dressage and a 75 cm course is interesting! As above none of anything higher would be out of my horses reach. So it must be me, after all the years and still not improving are some people destined to just remain at lower levels as in a word, they are just RUBBISH riders?

Can we ever be taught to improve? Or do you just naturally have to be a good rider to achieve anything more?
 
It took me many years to learn how to learn once I sussed it I was flying .
I thought there was some magical ability good riders had ( and some people at the top level do have unreal talents ) then a trainer showed me how to learn the world changed for me that day .
I recommend a book That winning feeling by Jane Savoie I read that book and took a unschooled horse ( albeit a very special one ) from having never evented to Bramham in three years .
 
I have taught many people and would expect most to be capable of competing at the levels you want to, assuming they want to and have a halfway decent horse, I do think some people have problems competing usually through lack of preparation combined with nerves on the day but I would still expect with good training and the right approach there should be no reason you could not do at least one discipline more successfully.

I think it may be an idea to decide what your aims are then start a sensible plan towards achieving it, possibly aim for doing a novice dr test as the first step, getting your prelim scores up a couple of % so you can go out and do 1 prelim and 1 novice, just aim for a "clear round" the first time with a fluent accurate test and don't worry about the score think of it as a schooling session, there is nothing in the early novice tests that are not in a prelim other than some lengthening which is only 2 marks, the movements come a little closer but I find that actually helps the horse and rider stay more focused, once you have done the first one it will be easier to continue to do a novice each time until you feel comfortable to think about leaving prelims behind you.

I would also suggest you volunteer to help at some local dr comps, see if you can write for the judge, it will give you a new perspective on competing when you see others struggling, you don't see it when you are riding as you only tend to notice the smart horses and riders looking confident, many change once they enter the arena, it may give you a boost to see another side.

Get yourself a trainer who will offer support, ideally one who will go to a few comps with you, possibly even ride your horse to get it onto the next level and not let you accept that you are rubbish, they need to give you a push in the right direction.
 
I'm not really sure whether some riders are beyond help (I certainly hope not!), but it is certainly true that most horses have all the ability to do the things you want to do, but a rather smaller subset of them have the kind temperament and good and forgiving nature necessary to do them with any rider.

It struck me from your post that you have been struggling on with the one horse (sorry if wrong!) because of your belief that he is capable while you are not. But maybe he is capable but just not generous enough to help you get there too?

Just my musings! I'm horse hunting atm, and it's really really hard to find a nice horse who will continue to try hard when the rider messes up, and won't take advantage of mistakes.

Sorry, went rather off-topic there! :o
 
I know where you are coming from, in my case it was nerves that prevented me from being successful and I know the horse is capable as she is successful with my daughter. Then I discovered trec, this is fun, with the obstacles and if you don't like the look of one can miss it out and with a full trec riding across unknown countryside with a map is exciting although I have only done this bit as a pair, and we have even won!
 
Broodle said:
I'm not really sure whether some riders are beyond help (I certainly hope not!), but it is certainly true that most horses have all the ability to do the things you want to do, but a rather smaller subset of them have the kind temperament and good and forgiving nature necessary to do them with any rider.

It struck me from your post that you have been struggling on with the one horse (sorry if wrong!) because of your belief that he is capable while you are not. But maybe he is capable but just not generous enough to help you get there too?

Just my musings! I'm horse hunting atm, and it's really really hard to find a nice horse who will continue to try hard when the rider messes up, and won't take advantage of mistakes.

Sorry, went rather off-topic there! :o
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I agree. Some people just don't click with some horses, like some people just dont get on with other people. This isn't the horses fault and it definitely isnt yours, its just the way it is.

Please don't give up. Mary King says in her book that she was 'hopeless' when she first started riding. It took her a year to learn to do rising trot. The first eventer she worked for banned her from riding because she said she wasn't good enough, and couldn't see a stride. And look where she is now!
 
I think that people don't really learn how to ride at riding schools. It's only when you are out on your own that you really learn how to ride with feel! Are you struggling with the same instructor or horse? Maybe you need to change and do things differently to get different results. I think you should find a schoolmaster on loan or to ride, an older horse who has done it all before and can teach you. If you are riding a horse that hasn't done it then it can be a case of the blind leading the blind! You may also need a change of instructor and some self belief! Anyone can do it with the right horse, some knowledge and belief in themselves. You have to be committed not just to learning but mentally committed to achieving it. Horses can pick up on your mindest more than your technical abilities as a rider.
 
There are certainly some people who are more naturally able (same goes for horses too), I really think the right instructor is the key. I have no natural rhythm and no natural 'feel', I can't tell which leg is where and I have struggled to tell what is right in terms of way of going (I'll think it's fine, pony will be behind the leg and curled up, I think we're going too fast, actually pony is developing swing!). I use mirrors a lot and have lots of lessons and really have to learn to identify signs to look for to show pony is going well! However we are progressing in the right direction and that's what matters. I try and go to the gym and find that has helped and I feel that we train really hard to hit the heady heights of novice dressage when it seems to come so easily to others but that's just the way it is! My instructor has the patience of a saint and has taken us from not bring able to turn right to currently aiming for novice music at winter regional (even with my lack of rhythm), it's taken a while but slow progress is better than no progress!
 
Walrus said:
There are certainly some people who are more naturally able (same goes for horses too), I really think the right instructor is the key. I have no natural rhythm and no natural 'feel', I can't tell which leg is where and I have struggled to tell what is right in terms of way of going (I'll think it's fine, pony will be behind the leg and curled up, I think we're going too fast, actually pony is developing swing!). I use mirrors a lot and have lots of lessons and really have to learn to identify signs to look for to show pony is going well! However we are progressing in the right direction and that's what matters. I try and go to the gym and find that has helped and I feel that we train really hard to hit the heady heights of novice dressage when it seems to come so easily to others but that's just the way it is! My instructor has the patience of a saint and has taken us from not bring able to turn right to currently aiming for novice music at winter regional (even with my lack of rhythm), it's taken a while but slow progress is better than no progress!
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Good lord, that could have been written by me, only I'm further behind in terms of competing haha. I also think I'm terrible for holding myself back, and try to achieve more than I need to for the level I'm at.
 
I think riding is 70% confidence and 30% natural ability/feel.

I will never be a great rider I am not particularly confident and don't have a lot of natural balance and feel. In my case I would need to have a good confidence giving forgiving schoolmaster to achieve what you are wanting to do.

There is a big difference between doing those activities on a horse that is experienced and confident and bringing on and training a horse to get to that level.
 
I think everyone is good at something you just have to find what it is!

I seem to have a knack with breaking, no matter how bad they start out I just seem to be able to crack them & never ever have an issue once I'm on. Don't know how I do it I just can!

However training for eventing I have to work at. Last season I consistently had my instructor telling me I was more talented than my horse & I didn't believe him but I know he wouldn't lie to me. I do need that consistent reassurance though, whereas with breaking I just know I can do it.

I think the right instructor can work wonders. Mine has know me since I was a child. Knows I'm gutsy & will ride at any fence especially if told I wouldn't dare, but also knows I question myself showjumping which is bizzare as I was "raised" on a showjumping yard & its all I did as a child. He knows that sometimes I need shouting at & being told to get on with it.

I think anyone is capable of anything with the right training for them and the right horse with the right scope (in whatever area) & the right training for the horse. You are as good as you want to make yourself so if you want to event at 90, go for it :D
 
I do think some people are beyond help - my dad, for instance :D but as mentioned before, he got by on his confidence.

What I found improved my jumping no end, both confidence and ability was lots of hunting and fun rides. The right horse also helps, maybe time for a change?
 
Bernster said:
Good lord, that could have been written by me, only I'm further behind in terms of competing haha. I also think I'm terrible for holding myself back, and try to achieve more than I need to for the level I'm at.
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Me too! Also know exactly where the OP is coming from. I mentally understand riding, I work really hard at improving myself all the time but just feel as though I'm a completely crap rider. My horse doesn't help me out, in fact he's often described by my instructor as a nob, but I've got friends who would be able to do the things on him that I want to, I just can't seem to deal with his quirks. The problem I have is that I absolutely love him to bits, and can't see myself parting with him. He's more than capable (he's won a BE100 in his previous life) but there are days when I struggle to get him over a 60cm cross pole, he ducks out and it wrecks what little jumping confidence I have.

Took him to horse camp last year and we had a great time, I felt we'd turned a corner, but since then I've fallen off 5 times and feel I've really taken a jump back, that I'm further behind than I was a year ago.
 
LotsOfGiftBags said:
Me too! Also know exactly where the OP is coming from. I mentally understand riding, I work really hard at improving myself all the time but just feel as though I'm a completely crap rider. My horse doesn't help me out, in fact he's often described by my instructor as a nob, but I've got friends who would be able to do the things on him that I want to, I just can't seem to deal with his quirks. The problem I have is that I absolutely love him to bits, and can't see myself parting with him. He's more than capable (he's won a BE100 in his previous life) but there are days when I struggle to get him over a 60cm cross pole, he ducks out and it wrecks what little jumping confidence I have.

Took him to horse camp last year and we had a great time, I felt we'd turned a corner, but since then I've fallen off 5 times and feel I've really taken a jump back, that I'm further behind than I was a year ago.
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This pretty much sums up where I am at present.

Thanks all for your advise and stories. I love my horse and do not see myself parting with him he is quite talented when he puts the effort in and I just have to learn to ride out his quirks. I know in my head what to do it just does not seem to translate to my body! And my confidence has recently taken a bit of a knock.

I know coming into summer when we can hack a bit more and get the fun back into the riding I will feel better about it all. My aim for this year is to just enjoy the riding and my horse, not to put to much pressure on myself and to override my confidence issues. Beyond that hopefully we will start to achieve a bit more the less I think about it!

Thanks all :)
 
hello, apologies I haven't read all replies. this may have already been mentioned.

I am a confident rider, having ridden all my life, and have had the opportunity to produce many horses over the years.

Just a few things to consider.

Do you suffer from nerves? if so, this is quite often the stalling point for most people to advance - at any level from grassroots up to the top - as crippling nerves can be so difficult to overcome. Nerves can prevent a rider having the ability to ride well out at competitions etc, it doesn't matter how many lessons you have unless you can address this.

Do you have the right instructor? I'm a firm believer in sticking with one instructor (usually you can tell after one lesson if you are likely to gel) for a decent period of time. avoid flitting around between one and a few others as they can be so contradictory - plus i've always found that the first lesson is always a bit rubbish as you are all getting to know each other and how far you can push them. Tell them your aims. I have one jump instructor and one flat, and I don't often have other lessons with other folks.

How capable is the horse? I have a horse at the moment who has been there and done it, so to go out and jump a 1.10m track is fine, no real issues as its well within his comfort zone. My other horse is just learning to jump 1.10 and above so it takes more planning to make sure I pick courses that suit him and I vary it by going above and back down into his comfort zone as its harder to rebuild confidence once its lost. I have also ridden a few horses and jumped them round courses. One in particular I jumped round a 1m track, he was good to ride as he was really well schooled but he never felt that he had the ooomph to jump a fence that high. I would not be keen to jump him any higher and I would say that a BE90 is probably his maximum height that I would have jumped round with him.
That said you also need to consider scope, but how wiling they are too. A brave horse will give you a much better experience than a spooky horse with endless scope.

so basically what I'm saying is that you can do it, but you shoudl consider all options and look realistically at your ability and the horses. the sport is too expensive to not enjoy it. :D
 
ArcticFox, your post makes complete sense, however to answer your points (OP sorry to hijack your post):

I do get nervous jumping, but not in dressage, I don't even get particularly bad competition nerves anymore. Even at dressage, we're almost always last or thereabouts, and I managed to fall off in the middle of a test a couple of months ago. At Hickstead :o :rolleyes3:

I do believe I have the right instructor, yes. He's a fantastic instructor and my riding has improved no end with him. I've tried a few others since I've had this horse, but none of them compare. He's been my instructor for about 5 years, we know each other well (actually that's why I tried some others, in case it was that we were too familiar with each other but that's not the case).

My horse is (physically) more than capable of doing an 80-85cm SJ or XC round, and more than capable of doing a good novice test. The problem is his brain, he gets incredibly tense at dressage; and with the jumping, well frankly sometimes he is just a git. We can even do it together - sunshine tour day 3 combined training, we got c62% in the dressage (novice) and a lovely clear SJ (80cm), giving us 7th place. At the weekend, he ducked out at a 50-60cm cross-pole and I went flying. He's super-sharp, and when he goes, there's not a second of warning.

I really see where you're coming from OP, but I'm still not planning on giving up trying quite yet. It's so disheartening some days, but I think I'd have a lot less self-respect if I gave it up just because it's hard. Maybe one day I'll get there!
 
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When you hear of people starting to ride very late - Paul Tapner, and the lady who was on the Olympic teams for Sweden, and even Victoria Pendleton - then it must be possible to be taught. Admittedly, they proably had good horses too.

A big part of it is the WANTING. Why be nervous about a dressage test? What is there to be nervous about? Think positive, not negative.
 
Lots of Gift bags - I think you can get there, but when you ride a horse that is a nob, then it takes so much longer and can feel never ending.
I had a showjumper with endless scope who stopped without warning when I tried to take him BS. he was awesome as a jumper until he realised we were BS. I spent 3 years trying to make it work before I had to admit that despite his talent, he just did not want to event. I ended up selling him and it turned out to be the right thing. he went on to do the job he enjoyed - pure SJ - and won lots. I don't think you should lose self-respect if you give up - that's really only a call you can make yourself, but giving up is not wrong. Not that I'm trying to convince you! I'm just trying to show that its not always the wrong option.

The horse I jumped - he stopped and dumped me at the first fence of a BE90. this was only a couple of weeks after we'd won a 1m20 BS class (after he won the 1.10m Newcomers!). its so frustrating but I never managed to get above a 90 within him. since I have another horse I have won at BE100, and last year (on a superstar) I even completed my first Intermediate.

I hope I'm making sense! Everyone is capable, but there are many reasons why we don't make it.
 
This is a tough one. I used to be a 'get on anything and get on with it' type of rider - no idea about striding etc but got on just fine! I bought a fab ISH ex novice BE horse who took me from 90cm to Fox in 4 months and I thought Id cracked it! I jumped 1.15s every weekend no problem. And then he died. So off I went full of confidence and bought a scopey, but spooky and sharp 7 yr old WB with the intention of going back out at Newcomers. Five and a half years later we are still fumbling around at BN and I can't see a stride for toffee. He is strong and I developed a hideous habit of holding him so he ended up in the bottom of the fence. His old owner had him back for 4 months this summer after I had a fall and he got 4 BN DCs for 2016 second rounds in a few outings.

My point being therefore (as others have said) that we are both capable, but maybe not together?

I only recently got my own transport so I am going to give it a crack this year with more consistency I hope we'll improve but I think mostly it comes down to nerves nad confidence in what you are sat on. I have lost my bottle. There I said it! I dont know at what point it went but finding it is a damn sight harder than losing it hence the importance of a good partnership.

Sorry that was a bit rambling and off track! Long and the short of it OP, is you are not alone!!
 
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Yes, some people are the "unteachables", and some (well, very few actually) have an innate talent. MOST people are somewhere in between, and those are the teachable ones.
 
Fascinating thread but actually I think the key is what you do off the horse as much as what you do on it. I am fortunate and I have been riding all my life so find xc very easy but I have had to work really hard at the other aspects.

Things I do:
Read, read, read
Watch hours of videos
Talk to people for hours
Take schoolmaster lessons
Watch other people have lessons
Watch the best compete and spend hours watching live if possible at events.
Volunteer to fence judge etc
Ask lots of questions
Ride as many horses as I can by offering up my time
Watch horsey people in action like vets, farriers etc and ask questions
Attend as many lectures and demos as possible.
Keep as fit as possible.

Frankly it's about working hard, giving up your time to learn and trying to improve.
 
LEC said:
Fascinating thread but actually I think the key is what you do off the horse as much as what you do on it. I am fortunate and I have been riding all my life so find xc very easy but I have had to work really hard at the other aspects.

Things I do:
Read, read, read
Watch hours of videos
Talk to people for hours
Take schoolmaster lessons
Watch other people have lessons
Watch the best compete and spend hours watching live if possible at events.
Volunteer to fence judge etc
Ask lots of questions
Ride as many horses as I can by offering up my time
Watch horsey people in action like vets, farriers etc and ask questions
Attend as many lectures and demos as possible.
Keep as fit as possible.

Frankly it's about working hard, giving up your time to learn and trying to improve.
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This. Time, time and time. Money helps fast track.
 
My issue like others is confidence. People say I have the ability, I can tell you what to do for jumping, can see if a horse is about to refuse or knock a fence usually or what someone did wrong. Can I jump anything bigger than 50 cm? No.

The coach I use for jumping gets really irritated with me for this. It's a mental block. I see a fence and every bit of knowledge leaves my head and I am left with this idiot in there running round in circles screaming "this is the end you are gonna die!".

If you believe you are capable of it I think that helps. I can do dressage no problem because I believe I can do it. I have no belief in myself for jumping although my coach does help. For some reason he can talk/trick me into doing things I never would normally do. Sounds stupid but belief helps.
 
Goldenstar said:
Gill Watson once told me that three things make a great rider dedication talent and money two of three will do but all three is best .

It's very true if you think about it .
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Missed one, LUCK . You need a hell of a lot of this too ,even if you have the other 3.
 
I wonder about this. I've all but given up jumping and, whilst I do love dressage, I do feel like sometimes we're just going round in circles... And not just literally.

My competition record is worse than awful and no matter how much we seem to improve in training (at times) there's never any change in our scores. In fact, there's very little difference in scores between the things that feel good and the things that feel awful. It's why my affiliation lapsed and I've been out twice unaff last year. I could sell my pony and buy something which would improve my scores, but I'm actually rather attached to him and he's never done anything to deserve selling. And I probably couldn't do anything with a new horse anyway.

I took him to a CRC event and he was scoring almost entirely 7s with some 8s (rather than the 5s and 6s we get at BD), but due to a bizarre quirk of calculation (and some very bad maths) still came out with scores in the mid 60s. I'm not sure now if I'm rubbish or just cursed!
 
Jumping scares me silly - so I don't.

When I was much younger (away back last century) and was at Pony Club, eventing was everything - NZ in the 1980's you understand, so it was always all about the jumping. I was hopeless at it, but felt I just had to keep on working at it, no matter how much it frightened me and how much I hated it.

Then I got older and wiser, and found other stuff that I was good at, and actually enjoyed - Arabians first which by natural progression led me to endurance riding and I never looked back. All those years of thinking I was a crap rider faded into oblivion as I found something that I was not only good at, but loved doing.

From that came confidence and I think that riding is all about that. If you don't think you can do it, you are probably right. These days there is such a wide range of equestrian sports (horseback archery is on my wish list!), that you can do whatever your heart desires. I don't endurance ride anymore, but am loving learning about dressage from the ground up. I have given jumping another go, but it's the same old - anything over about 12" and I feel sick to my stomach and that's no fun. And horses are an expensive way to be miserable.
 
NZJenny makes an excellent point, OP.

There is far more to riding than jumping, dressage and cross country. Have you thought about pursuing a different style of riding or a different horse sport?

I'm thinking about trying some different disciplines when I get back in the saddle.
 
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