Are terrible feet resolveable?

[JackDaniels1]

... Said horse has currently got front shoes on only, one shoe keeps falling off every couple of weeks or so (costs a fortune!) Feet are terribly cracked, farrier is struggling to find anywhere to put the nails through the foot as it is so cracked with lumps missing! Horse is foot-sore (ie, lame!)when shoes are taken off (wimpy TB!) or if one falls off. Horse is seen to regularly by farrier.

Had a friend's farrier have a quick look today whilst he was waiting on yard he said if horse was his he would take shoes off, leave horse barefoot until foot grows back then have horse re-shod again next year.

Any suggestions/opinions/help welcome!

 

[Zuzan]

Diet springs to mind.. and mineral balancing.. what is he fed .. inc forage?

incorrect mineral balance will affect the quality of the the horn and general health of the hoof.

Another thing to rule out is Ulcers and or hind gut acidosis..

Is there white line disease / thrush present.. ??

My personal preference is barefoot full stop.. but allowing your horse some time out of shoes to grow good horn and improve the health of the hoof is a good idea.. this may not mean that during this process he is completely unrideable..

After all it wasn't so long ago that no horse (or very very few) were shod year round.. most had few months out of shoes at some point during a year.

 

[zinzin]

Defo take shoes off. I know a horse who was being shod who had such a horrendous open crack up the whole length of the wall and either side of the crack moved independantly. Owner was at wits end, and as a last resort took shoes off. Feet now look the best they have ever been. However, it will take time and it is vital to have a good farrier/trimmer who can balance the feet well and attend at least every 8 weeks.

 

[JackDaniels1]

Lives out 24/7 with hay AM and PM. Will get hard feed once winter sets in.

No thrush (not smelly!?) What is white line disease?

If i take the shoes off, will be lame permanently or do they get use to it? (silly Q i know!)

 

[PorkChop]

I feel your pain

Have you thought about the glue on shoes - I have had them fitted before on a youngster that had really terrible feet, they were so bad I thought I should sell him because I didn't think his feet would stand up to work.

They were on for ten weeks and the difference was amazing, it was before he was broken so then went back to barefoot. He was broken this year and has had normal shoes on, you would never have known he had bad feet.

I not sure if they have a special name, but they were metal shoes that had mesh that were glued to the hoof, in effect cold shod and then glued to fit. Don't think I would recommend for long term use, but maybe would help in the short term x

 

[brown tack]

I had the same thing happen to my tb, although much worse as all 4 feet affected, my farrier used a filler on the hoof wall on two of feet, I never lost a shoe after that. It just helped to support the foot and stop any more cracks starting.

I also used corniseing (sp) around the top of the hoof every two days and naf rock hard on the bottom part every two days as well with effol used in between. Till the foot grew down, then used the rock hard once a week

I fed naf pro feet and put him on top spec.

In the summer I also his feet stand in a bucket of water for a few mins, it's hard work getting them right but when you do it's easy to maintain them.

 

[JackDaniels1]

The walk way down to the stables from fields is a little bit cobbly for a short distance of it so i don't know how she would cope with no shoes on with that. Having said that, the back feet (which dont have shoes on) are pretty OKish, just a couple of cracks at the sides.

I am hosing them everyday to moisurise them all, is this right? Any ointment would you recommend?

 

[Merry Crisis]

I have a TB, came to me in a dreadful condition, feet long and flat. He also couldnt keep shoes on. I feed him Blue Chip Balancer amongst other things. His feet have improved that shoes stay on but still need the farrier every 4 weeks. As for going barefoot, my farrier said yes his feet would improve, BUT it could take 2 years before his feet were in the position to be BF. In the meantime he would suffer incredible lameness before his feet became acustomed to barefoot. At 16 yrs old I dont think that I shall put him through it.

 

[Zuzan]

Lives out 24/7 with hay AM and PM. Will get hard feed once winter sets in.

No thrush (not smelly!?) What is white line disease?

If i take the shoes off, will be lame permanently or do they get use to it? (silly Q i know!)

I would suspect that nutrition might be worth investigating.. Many have had success with Equimins Hoofmender..

If the digestive system is compromised the hooves will show this..

White line Disease (WLD) is where infection invades the tissue of the white line.. this can in part be a result of the hoof wall having a weak attachment (nutrition is a key factor in both the stronger attachment and also the hooves natural resistance to infections). A supportive hoof trim will also help this resolve.. your farrier should be able to help here.

I would really very strongly risist the urge to use glue ons.. give the hooves time to heal / grow.

If you want to keep up the riden work hoof boots are getting much much better.. Easyboot Gloves are my preference.. the benefit is that you can address any infection that a permananent shoe might cover up / mask and you can use them as much or as little as you need.

The other thing to avoid at all costs is sticking anything on the hoof wall to protect it.. the best protection comes from nutrition. A high oil diet can help proof the wall (like the coat main and tail) micronised linseed works well as an addition and will help keep the horses condition thro winter.

 

[Paddy Irish]

I'm no expert but i wouldn't be hosing the feet to moisturize tham at all , you are just adding to the problem as the hoof is being forced to expand and contract too often , my boys feet aren't great he has a full crack up one front foot , but it's getting better and he's producing good quality horn , he's on equimins biotin plus suppliment and my farrier is really pleased , just use a good quality oil like effol and look at a good quality suppliment like biotin plus..

 

[china]

Been in your possition and now on the other side of it. Horse (tb) has navicular and i have no intention of putting shoes back on. His feet are the best they have ever been in the 5 years iv had him! Its not a short term thing by any means. Feet take a long time to repair and the initial transition to them becoming comfortable can take upto 4 weeks. My tb took a fortnight before he was comfortable on the yard walking up and down. He is 13 and has been shod all his life since a 2 year old (ex racer) so having shoes off was abit of a shock!
The photos i will post are a year apart! sorry if they are big, photo bucket will not let me resize! :-@

sorry this will be small, but you get the idea!

 

[Oberon]

... Said horse has currently got front shoes on only, one shoe keeps falling off every couple of weeks or so (costs a fortune!) Feet are terribly cracked, farrier is struggling to find anywhere to put the nails through the foot as it is so cracked with lumps missing! Horse is foot-sore (ie, lame!)when shoes are taken off (wimpy TB!) or if one falls off. Horse is seen to regularly by farrier.

Had a friend's farrier have a quick look today whilst he was waiting on yard he said if horse was his he would take shoes off, leave horse barefoot until foot grows back then have horse re-shod again next year.

Any suggestions/opinions/help welcome!

Being TB does not mean he HAS to have bad feet or than he won't be able to cope without shoes.

It means that he is more susceptible to 'things being off'.
http://barefoothorseblog.blogspot.com/search/label/barefoot thoroughbred

The horse needs minerals - poor quality wall is caused by poor mineral balance and diet.

Remove alfalfa, molasses and cereals from the diet and replace with

a fibre base (Fast Fibre or something similar)
an appropriate mineral balancer designed for UK forage such as Pro Hoof
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PRO-HOOF-...r_Equipment&hash=item415c6b4240#ht_1466wt_905

and micronised linseed.

Don't slap any chemicals or lotions on the hooves. Simply being turned out will be enough moisture.

The farrier is correct - a period without shoes will bring the feet back - as long as it's done properly.

The horse needs an appropriate diet, a sympathetic trim (leave sole and frog alone) and some hoof boots to keep working as movement and work stimulates growth and toughens the sole.

http://barefoothorseblog.blogspot.com/2011/02/hoof-cracks-update.html

 

[superted1989]

For 'dry' feet, Kevin Bacon hoof dressing is marvellous! My cob has very good feet, thankfully, but for about a week before being shod he sounded 'clunky'. Shoes didn't seem loose at all, so, I mentioned it to my farrier (hadn't had cob very long at that point, first farrier visit). He explained about his hooves expanding and contracting etc in response to weather and ground conditions, and, logically, the nail 'holes' can get dry, and bigger, whilst this is happening.
A 1 litre tub on Kevin Bacon cost me £15, direct from the farrier, 7 weeks down the line and his feet look lovely! Nail holes nice and tight and no clunking sounding, I'm a definite convert!

 

[china]

This should be clearer, the gap on the right is an old corinary injury that has grown down and recently broken off.

 

[Oberon]

I have a TB, came to me in a dreadful condition, feet long and flat. He also couldnt keep shoes on. I feed him Blue Chip Balancer amongst other things. His feet have improved that shoes stay on but still need the farrier every 4 weeks. As for going barefoot, my farrier said yes his feet would improve, BUT it could take 2 years before his feet were in the position to be BF. In the meantime he would suffer incredible lameness before his feet became acustomed to barefoot. At 16 yrs old I dont think that I shall put him through it.

It is unacceptable for a horse to be lame as a result of going barefoot. There is no reason for him to be uncomfortable during the transitional phase.

Boots, different surfaces and sympathetic trimming as well as appropriate diet all serve to keep a transitioning horse comfortable.

I've no idea where your farrier got the two year figure from? It only takes a few months for a barefoot horse to grow a whole new foot.

Please don't feel I am jumping on you, but it really frustrates me when farriers scaremonger like this. It's outdated information.

I'm not surprised you opted to keep your horse in shoes!

I took my old horse out of shoes at 17. He's 25 now and his feet are works of art.

So the option is there if you need it - but I'd find someone a little more supportive to help you first

 

[Holly Hocks]

My 21 year old TB has had a terrible time recently with his front feet. We took his back shoes off years ago and they are fantastic, but the front shoes kept coming off and breaking up the hoof wall, so about 8 weeks ago when the farrier came out, I told him not to bother even trying to put shoes on him. Unfortunately, due to the hoof wall being so broken up, he has just lived out in that time while the hoof tries to repair and grow. There is no point in me starting to walk him on different surfaces yet as he will only wear down what little there is. But hopefully in another few weeks, I'll start leading him hand onto different surfaces to see how he gets on. If he's too sore, I'll measure him for hoof boots after his next trim.
I've started giving him seaweed in his feed as I've had good results in the past with it.

 

[Oberon]

My 21 year old TB has had a terrible time recently with his front feet. We took his back shoes off years ago and they are fantastic, but the front shoes kept coming off and breaking up the hoof wall, so about 8 weeks ago when the farrier came out, I told him not to bother even trying to put shoes on him. Unfortunately, due to the hoof wall being so broken up, he has just lived out in that time while the hoof tries to repair and grow. There is no point in me starting to walk him on different surfaces yet as he will only wear down what little there is. But hopefully in another few weeks, I'll start leading him hand onto different surfaces to see how he gets on. If he's too sore, I'll measure him for hoof boots after his next trim.
I've started giving him seaweed in his feed as I've had good results in the past with it.

Sounds like a sensible plan

China - those feet look lush! So glad your boy is doing so well.

 

[JessandCharlie]

I have a TB who had a similar problem, kept yanking fronts off Talked to my farrier, and cptrayes on here (who was V helpful) and opted to going barefoot.

Plenty of fibre, brewer's yeast and magnesium in his diet and he hasn't been lame at all He's a little bit footy on very uneven, hard surfaces (such as loose lumps of stone on the road) but not bad at all. Where his fronts had so many holes in they have crumbled and broken away around the edges a bit, but it's growing out well and he's not sore at all.

He's also a lot freer moving when barefoot

He won't be shod again for as long as possible, perhaps never, but I do like to have to option of using studs, so if he's doing a lot on grass he might be. I hope not though

J&C

 

[deicinmerlyn]

China - amazing foot!

My advise would be to change farrier (as I have just done - radical change) and feed Top Spec comprehensive balancer. It is cost effective and really makes a difference, supplying all the nutrients necessary.

 

[Holly Hocks]

Sounds like a sensible plan

China - those feet look lush! So glad your boy is doing so well.

Oberon, which is the best chaff to put in the old boy's feed? I've been feeding Alfa-A original, but further up this thread, I've noticed that someone has said to remove all alfa from the diet. But that conflicts with the Dengie website as I've just had a look at hi-fi original which says that it is half alfalfa and that it's good for feet!!!! Very confused!! Don't know which one I should try now! Help!

 

[china]

Sounds like a sensible plan

China - those feet look lush! So glad your boy is doing so well.

Im sooo pleased with them! and...... i dont use a trimmer. In all honesty, i was abit to scared to as i didnt know any and was worried that i would find a duff! My farrier does alot of research into barefoot and was going to do some work with nic/rockley but it didnt happen, but he was happy enough to give it a go, and hes done a bloody good job! :-D
And even better, he came back into work last tuesday :-D after a year off! in his funky easyboot gloves! And hes sound ..... ish! i think a fat knee might have something to do with that though ;-)

 

[china]

Oberon, which is the best chaff to put in the old boy's feed? I've been feeding Alfa-A original, but further up this thread, I've noticed that someone has said to remove all alfa from the diet. But that conflicts with the Dengie website as I've just had a look at hi-fi original which says that it is half alfalfa and that it's good for feet!!!! Very confused!! Don't know which one I should try now! Help!

Il let you into a little secret ;-)
Allen and page fast fibre is amazing :-D Chuck a scoop of it in a bucket, add two scoops of water, leave it a minute and poof! like magic it doubles in size and you have half a bucket of feed! then chuck your bucket at your horse. They love it!! We have a fussy eater, and i mean super fussy! but he loves the stuff! No chaff needed so good for oldies because less chewing effort but its just a bucket full of fibre! I feed it to my tb and he loves it! just chuck my supplements in with it and he chomps away. I think it fills him up abit more to!

 

[Holly Hocks]

Il let you into a little secret ;-)
Allen and page fast fibre is amazing :-D Chuck a scoop of it in a bucket, add two scoops of water, leave it a minute and poof! like magic it doubles in size and you have half a bucket of feed! then chuck your bucket at your horse. They love it!! We have a fussy eater, and i mean super fussy! but he loves the stuff! No chaff needed so good for oldies because less chewing effort but its just a bucket full of fibre! I feed it to my tb and he loves it! just chuck my supplements in with it and he chomps away. I think it fills him up abit more to!

Thanks China - he's currently getting 16+ mix and alfa a, but the 16+ mix is nearly at the end of the sack, so I'll get some of this fast fibre and try that. My mare might like it as well as she's a fussy eater! Thanks

 

[Escada2004]

I had exactly the same with one of mine. Her feet wern't great but what she was doing was standing on the inside and pulling her shoes off which was making her feet weaker and breaking up and cracked. Now i just use effol hoof ointment when they look a bit dry and feet her dengie healthy hooves and we havent pulled a shoe off for about 8 months and both feet are practically perfect, only a tiny bit of filler needed in one now. Last summer she was being shod every 4 weeks, this summer she is going 6 weeks and feet still look good hen she is due i also did a test i took her off the healthy hooves and her feet started to crumble again, so put her back on it. They were so bad at one point we were going to have to use glue on shoes as she cant go bare foot as she is hoping lame with no shoes on. I feel you paid but try this food

 

[amandap]

My farrier does alot of research into barefoot and was going to do some work with nic/rockley but it didnt happen, but he was happy enough to give it a go, and hes done a bloody good job! :-D

What a fab bloke! Great job all round too, well done.

 

[Oberon]

Oberon, which is the best chaff to put in the old boy's feed? I've been feeding Alfa-A original, but further up this thread, I've noticed that someone has said to remove all alfa from the diet. But that conflicts with the Dengie website as I've just had a look at hi-fi original which says that it is half alfalfa and that it's good for feet!!!! Very confused!! Don't know which one I should try now! Help!

Lesson one - feed companies and the Laminitis Trust LIE

I used to feed alfalfa pellets in bulk to my old boy (his teeth are poor) until I had a forage analysis done and had a mineral balanced diet created from it following the NRC.

My forage's calcium is 200% NRC - alfalfa is a legume (pea family) and it's really high in calcium. Too much calcium blocks magnesium (= spooky horses).
My forage is low in copper and zinc (both essential for metabolism and healthy feet).

I was also feeding limestone flour too (calcium carbonate - in all the horse feeds

) so I was making things worse.

So his diet with alfalfa was drowning in calcium and blocking everything else.

I took the alfalfa away and fed the minerals and PING - instant health and feet went on to be the best they've been in the last 20 years.

And it's so cheap

Those of us who have gone to the expense of an analysis are seeing the same sorts of trends in the UK.

In response to this and designed for people who don't have an analysis, Pro Hoof has been brought out to try and provide those lacking minerals without crap getting in the way (too much iron/manganese/calcium)
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PRO-HOOF-...r_Equipment&hash=item415c6b4240#ht_1466wt_905

I also advocate feeding Yea-sacc for digestion and micronised linseed as IMO it's a horsey superfood

Trying to find a chaff without alfalfa is really difficult as the market is saturated with the stuff. The idea that it isn't good is only just coming about, so until more demand is seen for alternatives, the feed companies won't look elsewhere.

Good, old fashioned chaffed hay and oat straw is what's needed.

Fast Fibre is what I use (along with Speedibeet for weight gain) and a scoop of old fashioned bran.

A farmer down the road has done me a bag of proper hay chaff this week, but when that runs out, I'll use Readigrass for my old boy during the winter.