Are the supposed benefits of chondroitin, glucosamine and MSM proven?

PolarSkye

PolarSkye

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I'm asking because when Kal was in horsepital to have his right hock joint flushed following a nasty kick in the field, the vet noticed some bony spavin changes. Nothing that is causing lameness now . . . he's come back from injury sound as a pound . . . but I'm wondering how I can support his hocks going forward to mitigate arthritic degernation.

To give you an idea of his type/workload, he's a 16.2hh 14-ish Polish sport horse - although his conformation is a tad upright he has quite a pop on him . . . routinely jumps well over a metre at home and could go higher. We event him. We don't affiliate him b/c he also has navicular in his fronts and we have to be soooo careful of the ground he goes on, but we do compete him unaffiliated. He's built very like a TB and weighs about 550kgs.

P
 
I cannot help on whether or not they are proven but they do seem to have helped several horses I know, especially one with spavin that has the cortoflex HR, I think it is, the 14 year old in my yard started on a supplement last summer as a precaution he moves well but no real proof of the effectiveness.

I only came on to say pleased he is doing so well:D
 
be positive said:
I cannot help on whether or not they are proven but they do seem to have helped several horses I know, especially one with spavin that has the cortoflex HR, I think it is, the 14 year old in my yard started on a supplement last summer as a precaution he moves well but no real proof of the effectiveness.

I only came on to say pleased he is doing so well:D
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Thanks BP . . . I guess if the supplement is started early enough (as in before there's a real problem) it'd be hard to point to the benefits?

And thank you so much . . . I am absolutely thrilled with how he is recovering. He starts walking in hand today and goes out in a pen at the weekend. Once YO has harrowed the school (some naughty liveries turned out in it during all the ice/snow and the surface is now horrendous) he can start ridden work next weekend (walk only to start with and no lateral work either - he'll be soooo bored).

P
 
That it an amazing recovery, mainly due to you getting help quickly so he had the correct treatment but still impressive to be back riding so soon:)
 
be positive said:
That it an amazing recovery, mainly due to you getting help quickly so he had the correct treatment but still impressive to be back riding so soon:)
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He's a tough lad . . . bless him. Still feel very lucky that the injury wasn't much worse . . . even though the agonizing wait for the vet to ring to say he was up after surgery/GA was hell . . . he must have a guardian angel ;).

P
 
Sadly it has been proven glucoasamine and chondrotin does not help in humans - there was an article on it in the British Medical Journal a couple of years ago and was all over the news at the time.

Therefore you would have to question its uses for animals too, although I know of many people that still swear by it.

However I do believe MSM has a place and used it for a horse with a severe tendon injury with much sucess.
 
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Sidney said:
Sadly it has been proven glucoasamine and chondrotin does not help in humans - there was an article on it in the British Medical Journal a couple of years ago and was all over the news at the time.

Therefore you would have to question its uses for animals too, although I know of many people that still swear by it.

However I do believe MSM has a place and used it for a horse with a severe tendon injury with much sucess.
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Thank you Sidney . . . I did see those reports, which is why I asked the question here. So any good/recommended sources of MSM?

P
 
Sidney said:
Sadly it has been proven glucoasamine and chondrotin does not help in humans - there was an article on it in the British Medical Journal a couple of years ago and was all over the news at the time.
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I read this one at the time and was surprised. OH and I both take it, and both experience a cessation, not lessening, complete stop, of pain in an arthritic wrist and an arthritic knuckle, both caused by sports injuries from years ago. It doesn't work for about 12 weeks, but then you suddenly realise it's gone.

OH had to stop the glucosamine for a while and the pain was back with a vengeance. He started it again after a year's break and again it kicked in after a couple of months.

It could be placebo effect of course, but the time delay seems a little odd for that.

However I do believe MSM has a place and used it for a horse with a severe tendon injury with much sucess.
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A friend of mine has a mare with a persistently filled fetlock on a hind leg. I suggested that she put the mare on MSM and I could see she had done it when I saw her again. I can tell when she's run out too, it's very obvious.
 
PolarSkye said:
Thank you Sidney . . . I did see those reports, which is why I asked the question here. So any good/recommended sources of MSM?

P
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cyteessentials is consistently the cheapest. It's genuine stuff. They sell on eBay and from a website you can google up.
 
cptrayes said:
cyteessentials is consistently the cheapest. It's genuine stuff. They sell on eBay and from a website you can google up.
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Thank you :). Actually, a friend of mine (who is a nurse) recommends that people try glucosamine to see if it works for them . . . if it does, go with it - if it doesn't, stop . . . no harm no foul. Seems like it really works for you and your OH.

Beetles off to look up cyteessentials.

P
 
cptrayes said:
I read this one at the time and was surprised. OH and I both take it, and both experience a cessation, not lessening, complete stop, of pain in an arthritic wrist and an arthritic knuckle, both caused by sports injuries from years ago. It doesn't work for about 12 weeks, but then you suddenly realise it's gone.

OH had to stop the glucosamine for a while and the pain was back with a vengeance. He started it again after a year's break and again it kicked in after a couple of months.

It could be placebo effect of course, but the time delay seems a little odd for that.



A friend of mine has a mare with a persistently filled fetlock on a hind leg. I suggested that she put the mare on MSM and I could see she had done it when I saw her again. I can tell when she's run out too, it's very obvious.
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So . . . how much to give? Horse is approx 550kgs . . . is there a loading dose and then maintenance dose? Will ask my vet when he next comes out to check Kal but if anyone else has any advice/feedback that'd be grand.

P
 
It's worked for my horses. I notice the difference if I reduce the dose or take them off it. One horse with navicular has not been lame since he has been on it. Also finds it helps with athritis.
 
Whereas cortaflex made no difference to one of ours with bone spavin....

I used the Naf MSM which in hindsight wasn't the cheapest!

I think for the OP it is a matter of trial and error, but if the horse is not lame, would be hard to quantify.
 
i had a tb that had a stiff hock and stifle and if he wasnt on a supplement he would circle his leg instead of bending it and this completely stopped ONLY when he was on cortaflex, there was such a difference he could do an advanced test . (i did lots of trials on other makes and none worked so well for him)
my current horse has a clicky front knee and i put him on equine america glucosamine (as i cant really justify £ for cortaflex and thought it was worth a try) and after a 1 month loading period he no longer clicks. i also tried green lipped mussel and it had no effect at all.
 
cptrayes said:
cyteessentials is consistently the cheapest. It's genuine stuff. They sell on eBay and from a website you can google up.
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How much would I need to give as a daily maintenance ration? Currently got my 10yr old hw coloured cob and 13yr old mw (had a hard life in RC before I bought her last). Neither showing signs of stiffness. I am currently using a joint supplement but it does include chondroitin and glucosamine so I'm possibly wasting money.
 
Sidney said:
but if the horse is not lame, would be hard to quantify.
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I know . . . and this is the dilemma . . . I would rather not wait until he is lame or has a problem and want to prolong his "soundness" but how do I know whether whatever I give him actually works?

Vet said he wouldn't be looking at medicating the joints (both hocks) yet b/c he is sound . . . but if I can give him a supp that KEEPS the joints sound (and improves his navicular to boot) then that's good right?

Horses . . . who'd have 'em?

P
 
Turmeric has been tested and proven to reduce inflammation in arthritic joints.
I've read the study, will look for the link so you can have a read :)
 
Passtheshampoo said:
How much would I need to give as a daily maintenance ration? Currently got my 10yr old hw coloured cob and 13yr old mw (had a hard life in RC before I bought her last). Neither showing signs of stiffness. I am currently using a joint supplement but it does include chondroitin and glucosamine so I'm possibly wasting money.
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I give a big horse 10 grammes a day of pure MSM.

I hope you've seen the post saying Aviform are cheaper than Cyte?
 
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