Are there any anti hunting people who

Sanversera

Sanversera

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Are ok with bloodhound hunts or drag hunts. I have an acquaintance who is now opposed to hunting in any form as she feels it's unfair on the horses. Wondering if this is general or if it's just aimed at people who have more money to spend than she has? I hasten to add that she owns two large detached Victorian houses one of which is let but doesn't have a lot of spare cash most of it going on the mortgages, she seems opposed to those with disposable income especially regarding horses she used to be a horse owner btw.eta she's always 🐝 very much opposed to fox hunting or animal killing in any form and is a member of animal liberation group who go around liberating peoples hens from coops.
 
Houses that you don't live in are disposable income lol but I don't know what that has to do with anything

You can be just opposed to the part of "hunting" where it's about actually killing something. That's easy. I'd probably fall into that camp.

I'd be interested to hear her rationale for being against simulated hunts too though. Could be a reasonable position. Lots of horses sent out to hunt without being fit, or properly prepared. Plenty of opportunity for injury. You hear lots of anecdotes about young horses having their brains blown by being chucked in the deep end. The adrenaline of running as a herd can overpower a lot of "no thank you" and self preservation. Plenty of valid reasons not to like it.
 
smolmaus said:
I'd be interested to hear her rationale for being against simulated hunts too though. Could be a reasonable position. Lots of horses sent out to hunt without being fit, or properly prepared. Plenty of opportunity for injury. You hear lots of anecdotes about young horses having their brains blown by being chucked in the deep end. The adrenaline of running as a herd can overpower a lot of "no thank you" and self preservation. Plenty of valid reasons not to like it.
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It would be hard to watch some of the videos that come out of hunting and are shared on social media and think that horse welfare is their priority. I'm specifically thinking of those of horses slithering down into deep drains with riders flopping off every other minute. Often they're from Irish hunts, but not always. I've seen plenty of concerning stuff from UK hunts too, though.
 
I think there are worse jobs for a horse to do than galloping across the countryside with other horses and having the summer off in the field, and for those who get on well with the job generally they do genuinely love it.

I also think it can be an incredibly hard life on the horse and some hunt horses are very much machines to do a job and their long-term soundness is not really considered, usually medicated until they can't do the job anymore then broken down by their teens.

And there is some very poor riding and practice that goes on.

Like most things in the equestrian world, I think it is multi-faceted. I know people who hunt full-time who's horses get 5* treatment, only do a certain number of meets a month with the same horse and ride beautifully and sympathetically. I also know/see people who couldn't care less for the horses welfare and just want to jump big hedges, ride awfully and hammer the horses into the ground.

But it's no different to any other discipline really in that respect. Just as you get showjumpers and dressage riders who drill their horses, ride poorly, ride lame horses and use questionable training methods, you get good and bad hunt riders.
 
I used to freelance for a lot of people who hunted as their primary horse activity and they ranged from extremely conscientious and willing to improve (in terms of letting go of a few old wives' tales, taking up more modern practices) to those for whom it was what you did because (yes) they were of that social class and it was what (some of) your peers did, where care and welfare were sometimes hair-raising. One woman told me never to add fresh shavings or take out wet because shaving were expensive (50p a bag for joinery floor sweepings, husband was chair of national brewery/pub chain) and their vet (also the hunt chairman) had allegedly told them it was good for the feet to stand in damp conditions. Or a horse would do a tendon at the end of the season, be chucked out for the summer, I would be asked to walk it for a couple of weeks and then it would go off cubbing and blow the tendon again. Being kicked by other horses, having brains blown, being hauled in the mouth, ill-fitting tack are all extras.
 
I am very anti fox hunting, I have some concerns re the welfare of horses and hounds with other forms of hunting but that could be said for most horse sports these days. I do ride, mostly hacking and very low level dressage. My horses are mostly pets. The older I get the more I question the ethics of riding and horse sports. Hypocritical? Yes maybe. All I ever wanted as a child was a pony and too ride. Most of my life I have had a horse or pony and they have been the main focus of my life.
Is riding and horse sport ethical? I am not sure to be honest.
 
I'm not sure who the above posters have been out hunting with but as someone who has hunted with bloodhounds for over 30 years I can assure you I have never seen unfit horses hammered, hauled around wearing I'll fitting tack, horses slithering into drains and riders flopping off every 5 minutes. I don't think a few hours group riding in the countryside with stops at the end of each hunt is such a terrible life for a horse. I know all the horses I've hunted over the years would find it preferable to going in endless circles all week.
 
Facebook algorithms used to bombard me with videos of hunts in Ireland that were exactly that - a cameraman stood at a big drain / ditch and filmed dozens of horses sliding down the banks into water, riders hanging on or falling off. They weren't filmed or edited by sabateurs - they seemed proud of them.

I say they were Irish hunts because they were - you could hear them talking - but that isn't to say that all Irish hunts behave that way, or that UK hunts don't. I've been out with a couple of UK packs who had scant regard for the law, and I saw some dodgy horsemanship. I also know decent people who do care for their horses who hunt, or hunted in the past. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
 
JFTDWS said:
Facebook algorithms used to bombard me with videos of hunts in Ireland that were exactly that - a cameraman stood at a big drain / ditch and filmed dozens of horses sliding down the banks into water, riders hanging on or falling off. They weren't filmed or edited by sabateurs - they seemed proud of them.

I say they were Irish hunts because they were - you could hear them talking - but that isn't to say that all Irish hunts behave that way, or that UK hunts don't. I've been out with a couple of UK packs who had scant regard for the law, and I saw some dodgy horsemanship. I also know decent people who do care for their horses who hunt, or hunted in the past. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
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A fair few of those aren’t actually hunting, just a ‘jolly’ round the countryside
 
Hunters, dressage riders, showjumpers, eventers, endurance riders, happy hackers...all can be abusive, ignorant and cruel. I have seen dire horsemanship in all of the disciplines. Hunting is at least not competitive and a sound, proven hunter is a very valuable horse. At the very least that is an asset that is generally well looked after. Most hunters I know are very very careful with their horses; physically and psychologically and very much understand their horse's individual needs and quirks. But I choose my friends and company carefully I guess. I very rarely see hunting horses that are lacking confidence hacking, loading, with clipping, children, dogs and all manner of things. I think that is a positive. Some horses will find that galloping across country with other horses very exciting - some never settle to it but I've not had that issue (I have one horse for whom drag hunting provokes a great enjoyment of racing - he's maybe not everyone's idea of easy, but he is safe and appears very relaxed at his chosen pace and place at the front of the field...)

I don't see worse horsemanship or riding out hunting than I do at fun rides, RC events or other places tbh.

My horses trot up the ramp into the box if I am wearing my hunting outfit but are generally happy loaders in any case.

Hunting can be demanding physically but most people want to be safe, comfortable and not censured by others wrt their horsemanship and care so there is a degree of pressure on participants, especially now, to make sure horses are treated with respect and care at the very least. Many hunting people will say the best days of their lives have been hunting with a very much loved equine partner and will work incredibly hard to keep horses happy for the job, sound and well conditioned physically and mentally.

It seems a typical anti hunt narrative, not based on logic or facts to pick hunting out as especially horse unfriendly tbh.
 
I am not anti legal hunting on horseback, I wish I had the nerves and horse to do it, so am probably not that qualified to answer. In my youth I have ridden horses who were speed demons and loved going fast and crazy. (And the opposite too).

I think the issue with hunting is nowadays just people parroting sm and the single message out there. A lot of the phrasing and wording is identical and just constantly repeating so people kind of just soak it up rather than bother to find out the nuances between different types of hunting.

Hopefully it will calm down once they clamp down on trail hunting and the focus will move onto a different subject of animal welfare. I think the world has so many bigger problems but society seems to want to target those with perceived wealth so hunting is an easy target so maybe not?
 
palo1 said:
Hunters, dressage riders, showjumpers, eventers, endurance riders, happy hackers...all can be abusive, ignorant and cruel. I have seen dire horsemanship in all of the disciplines. Hunting is at least not competitive and a sound, proven hunter is a very valuable horse. At the very least that is an asset that is generally well looked after. Most hunters I know are very very careful with their horses; physically and psychologically and very much understand their horse's individual needs and quirks. But I choose my friends and company carefully I guess. I very rarely see hunting horses that are lacking confidence hacking, loading, with clipping, children, dogs and all manner of things. I think that is a positive. Some horses will find that galloping across country with other horses very exciting - some never settle to it but I've not had that issue (I have one horse for whom drag hunting provokes a great enjoyment of racing - he's maybe not everyone's idea of easy, but he is safe and appears very relaxed at his chosen pace and place at the front of the field...)

I don't see worse horsemanship or riding out hunting than I do at fun rides, RC events or other places tbh.

My horses trot up the ramp into the box if I am wearing my hunting outfit but are generally happy loaders in any case.

Hunting can be demanding physically but most people want to be safe, comfortable and not censured by others wrt their horsemanship and care so there is a degree of pressure on participants, especially now, to make sure horses are treated with respect and care at the very least. Many hunting people will say the best days of their lives have been hunting with a very much loved equine partner and will work incredibly hard to keep horses happy for the job, sound and well conditioned physically and mentally.

It seems a typical anti hunt narrative, not based on logic or facts to pick hunting out as especially horse unfriendly tbh.
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You have not been out with my local hunt then where galloping on roads is common. I agree other horse sports can also leave a lot to be desired. Hate to see the amount of tack some use.
 
This thread is specifically about hunting, but fully agree that there is bad horsemanship in all spheres

There’s a thriving trade in these parts for skilled nagsmen (mostly younger ones) to school and hone a really good forgiving hunter to be sold (many ££££s) to a deep pocketed lump. This info comes direct from someone who hunts.

These genuine types of horses put up with the poor riding and repeated misses for a season or two then start to stop at the big hedges. The deep pocketed lump then ditches that horse and buys another ready made diamond. Rinse and repeat.
 
There are valid reasons to dislike basically every horse sport I think. I am not the biggest fan of pony club tbh. A lot of kicking, pulling, smacking, and kids who care more about rosettes than their pony. Kids who grow up with ponies feel entitled to them, they don't appreciate what they have. Gives me the ick. Some of that is based on what I've seen with my own eyeballs, some of it from what other people tell me. Maybe it's not a fair opinion to every pony club but its still an opinion based on experience.

None of us have the same experience of any part of horse sport or even just horse keeping 🤷‍♀️
 
palo1 said:
Hunters, dressage riders, showjumpers, eventers, endurance riders, happy hackers...all can be abusive, ignorant and cruel. I have seen dire horsemanship in all of the disciplines. Hunting is at least not competitive and a sound, proven hunter is a very valuable horse. At the very least that is an asset that is generally well looked after. Most hunters I know are very very careful with their horses; physically and psychologically and very much understand their horse's individual needs and quirks. But I choose my friends and company carefully I guess. I very rarely see hunting horses that are lacking confidence hacking, loading, with clipping, children, dogs and all manner of things. I think that is a positive. Some horses will find that galloping across country with other horses very exciting - some never settle to it but I've not had that issue (I have one horse for whom drag hunting provokes a great enjoyment of racing - he's maybe not everyone's idea of easy, but he is safe and appears very relaxed at his chosen pace and place at the front of the field...)

I don't see worse horsemanship or riding out hunting than I do at fun rides, RC events or other places tbh.

My horses trot up the ramp into the box if I am wearing my hunting outfit but are generally happy loaders in any case.

Hunting can be demanding physically but most people want to be safe, comfortable and not censured by others wrt their horsemanship and care so there is a degree of pressure on participants, especially now, to make sure horses are treated with respect and care at the very least. Many hunting people will say the best days of their lives have been hunting with a very much loved equine partner and will work incredibly hard to keep horses happy for the job, sound and well conditioned physically and mentally.

It seems a typical anti hunt narrative, not based on logic or facts to pick hunting out as especially horse unfriendly tbh.
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I agree 100% My mare absolutely loves her hunting. Our hunt puts on lots of pre fitness rides and a hunter school ie a condensed course over 3 evenings to prepare for the season, anything like poor horsemanship and bad riding would be picked up there.
 
irishdraft said:
I'm not sure who the above posters have been out hunting with but as someone who has hunted with bloodhounds for over 30 years I can assure you I have never seen unfit horses hammered, hauled around wearing I'll fitting tack, horses slithering into drains and riders flopping off every 5 minutes. I don't think a few hours group riding in the countryside with stops at the end of each hunt is such a terrible life for a horse. I know all the horses I've hunted over the years would find it preferable to going in endless circles all week.
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agree 100%
 
ester said:
A fair few of those aren’t actually hunting, just a ‘jolly’ round the countryside
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That seems quite likely - but when they're what a lot of people see (especially non-horsey people) shared by pages that call themselves hunts, it's not surprising that they are linked to a lot of people's opinions of hunting.
 
I am against and would never go fox hunting but I did go out with a few different bloodhound packs with the orange Welshie.

I’d say one pack tended to have better standards of riding and horsemanship than the other (& they were who I mainly chose to go with but they tended to be less local) and indeed I don’t think the other pack still exists/ think they were quite short lived. (I could be wrong on that as after I lost the Welshie I’ve not had the opportunity to go out with anyone)

I will admit neither were known for any serious jumping so mostly what we went over were fairly moderate sized hunt jumps probably max 80-90cm rather than any big hedges or ditches (I did jump the odd smaller ditch but certainly thought too much of my horse to ask him to be slithering in and out of anything… also no way I was or am talented enough for such shenanigans!)

I had some absolutely fabulous days out, especially the non jumping meets with a smaller field.

The hounds always looked to be happy and well treated as well.

Would love to go out again one day so long as hunting with bloodhounds remains legal and if current horse would enjoy it & be able to keep up! (Given that he’s only 31/2 and not backed going to be a good few years before I get an answer to that)
 
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