Are unaff drssage scores getting unrealistic?

JFTDWS

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Not everyone is though unfortunately..which is where I find it wrong that they are sent away with marks such as 70%, thinking they have done a great test and have a well schooled horse, when it couldn't be further from the truth.

I agree that over-inflated scores are ridiculous and unhelpful. The comment above was in relation to a couple of posts saying that it doesn't matter what the test "felt" like because riders aren't capable of assessing their own horse properly :rolleyes3:

I didn't get to where I am today by not knowing the difference... (ooh channelling my inner CJ!)
 

PaddyMonty

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I do think it's a little offensive for some to assume that riders cannot possibly judge their horse's way of going in a test.
With you all the way on that one.
If I couldn't tell from the saddle how my horse is going and therefore what he probably looks like from the ground then how the hell would I know what to do when schooling or riding a test? If I genuinely cant tell then I've wasted a lot of money on training with a list 1 judge. :eek:
 

Moomin1

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With you all the way on that one.
If I couldn't tell from the saddle how my horse is going and therefore what he probably looks like from the ground then how the hell would I know what to do when schooling or riding a test? If I genuinely cant tell then I've wasted a lot of money on training with a list 1 judge. :eek:

I agree to a certain extent, but then there are a lot of riders out there who really do not realise how bad their test looks from the ground.
 

PaddyMonty

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I agree to a certain extent, but then there are a lot of riders out there who really do not realise how bad their test looks from the ground.
Agree completely. Just very much disagree with a BLANKET statement that riders cant asses the quality of a test from the saddle. Some can, some cant. The ones that can generally improve their horse, the ones that cant keep making the same basic mistakes.
 

PolarSkye

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Agree completely. Just very much disagree with a BLANKET statement that riders cant asses the quality of a test from the saddle. Some can, some cant. The ones that can generally improve their horse, the ones that cant keep making the same basic mistakes.

Precisely - which is why being honest (as a judge) in marking and constructive in commentary is so flipping important :).

P
 

_GG_

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Agree completely. Just very much disagree with a BLANKET statement that riders cant asses the quality of a test from the saddle. Some can, some cant. The ones that can generally improve their horse, the ones that cant keep making the same basic mistakes.

I think you are doing yourself a disservice there PM. From reading comments of yours on other threads and your own competition reports, you are one of the group of people who go even further than being able assess from the saddle and work to improve your horse. You also seem to be one of the few who understands and indeed does also, improve yourself for the good of your horse.

I will be going through judge training next Spring, so this is all very interesting :)
 

khalswitz

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I think you are doing yourself a disservice there PM. From reading comments of yours on other threads and your own competition reports, you are one of the group of people who go even further than being able assess from the saddle and work to improve your horse. You also seem to be one of the few who understands and indeed does also, improve yourself for the good of your horse.

I will be going through judge training next Spring, so this is all very interesting :)

Out of interest, what is required to become a trainee judge? I know you have to have competed above novice, but is there any other criteria??
 

_GG_

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Out of interest, what is required to become a trainee judge? I know you have to have competed above novice, but is there any other criteria??

You have to have scored over 62% a minimum of six times at novice or above or have coached others to do that and have six examples. Can be the same pupil or different people, but they have to fill in a form, be BD registered as it has to be for affiliated competition and they have to state how long you have been coaching them and a few details about any other trainers and what you've done for them.

You can also qualify if you are BHSAI or above.

Hope that helps.

They can go right back as well, so if you have very old BD points/results, they can still find them. :)
 

monkeybum13

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You have to have scored over 62% a minimum of six times at novice or above or have coached others to do that and have six examples. Can be the same pupil or different people, but they have to fill in a form, be BD registered as it has to be for affiliated competition and they have to state how long you have been coaching them and a few details about any other trainers and what you've done for them.

You can also qualify if you are BHSAI or above.

Hope that helps.

They can go right back as well, so if you have very old BD points/results, they can still find them. :)

What level is that the judge at? Seems fairly low criteria!
 

FellOutOfFavour

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What level is that the judge at? Seems fairly low criteria!

It seems very low to me too. With those criteria I only need one more 62% score at novice to become a trainee, and there is no way I consider myself to be remotely competant. Fear not though, lack of a horse who is capable of competing means I won't be getting that sixth score any time this century.
 

ihatework

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What level is that the judge at? Seems fairly low criteria!

That is to be a list 6.

It does seem scarily low I agree! I quite fancy being a trainer judge, I'm borderline becoming group 5 rider (so 14 points at medium) and to be honest I wouldn't feel comfortable to do more than intro / prelim to start with.
 

daffy44

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I think it is quite a low criteria, but i also think it highlights the difference between judging and riding, and the idea that judges have to have ridden to the level is a flawed one. I agree that the ideal situation is a judge that has ridden to the level they judge at, but its no guarantee as they are two different skills. I have more than six scores of over 62% at Inter1 on a horse i have trained myself from the very start, but i dont feel confident judging at all! I have judged once at a Riding club unaff, and i found it difficult, I teach most days and i really enjoy that, but i certainly dont feel very qualified to judge, but according to my results i would be fast tracked as a judge! Some people are fantastic eyes on the ground without necessarily being able to be amazing riders, as i said, two very different skill sets, some people an do both brilliantly, but some cant.
 

_GG_

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That is to be a list 6.

It does seem scarily low I agree! I quite fancy being a trainer judge, I'm borderline becoming group 5 rider (so 14 points at medium) and to be honest I wouldn't feel comfortable to do more than intro / prelim to start with.

It is to start training as a list 6 judge. A very active trainee judge that is doing a lot of training can expect to be ready to judge prelim in about 6 months. The training is extremely structured and you just don't get to be a higher listing judge without really knowing what you are looking at. There are also exams.
 

_GG_

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I think it is quite a low criteria, but i also think it highlights the difference between judging and riding, and the idea that judges have to have ridden to the level is a flawed one. I agree that the ideal situation is a judge that has ridden to the level they judge at, but its no guarantee as they are two different skills. I have more than six scores of over 62% at Inter1 on a horse i have trained myself from the very start, but i dont feel confident judging at all! I have judged once at a Riding club unaff, and i found it difficult, I teach most days and i really enjoy that, but i certainly dont feel very qualified to judge, but according to my results i would be fast tracked as a judge! Some people are fantastic eyes on the ground without necessarily being able to be amazing riders, as i said, two very different skill sets, some people an do both brilliantly, but some cant.

In theory, a judge doesn't ever have had to even sat on a horse as the criteria includes coaching others.
 

_GG_

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But GG, the new BD theory is that a judge has to have ridden, not just coached to, the level they judge at.

Fair enough....those are the criteria I was given just a few weeks ago, supported by the documentation but there may be more to it when the training starts I suppose.
 

daffy44

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GG, i really hope your right, i think coaching to the judging level as opposed to riding is a massively better criteria for potential judges. Its just that judges i know have complained an awful lot about the riding thing, but i'd be delighted if your right.
 

_GG_

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GG, i really hope your right, i think coaching to the judging level as opposed to riding is a massively better criteria for potential judges. Its just that judges i know have complained an awful lot about the riding thing, but i'd be delighted if your right.

Hmmm, I will find out soon enough and let you know!!!

It's like the whole qualified vs non qualified instructor thing in a way. There are many qualified instructors I wouldn't touch with a bargepole and many non qualified instructors I would trust to teach me anything.
 

_GG_

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Nothing in there about riding or needing to ride to upgrade listing.

It is rigorous though. Even an FBHS can only enter as a List 3 judge.
 

_GG_

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Well, i'm delighted and i think thats so much fairer, but now i'm wondering what all the grumpy judges have been going on about?!!

No Idea. Maybe it's the way they applied. So...for example, you can apply for Fast track and go in as a list 4 judge if you are BHSI...which you need to have ridden to reach. Or, an FBHS that also has 6 results above 60% at Grand Prix can go in at list 2.

I've just seen another attachment, hang on....

No...nothing else in there
 
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Tiddlypom

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I do think it's a little offensive for some to assume that riders cannot possibly judge their horse's way of going in a test - I can certainly tell if the test was a good one, relative to my own low standards (and I always have a massive photoset and/or a video to double check anyway), and I'm definitely capable of distinguishing desirable from undesirable in my own horse...
Oops, I wasn't always the best judge of how my test had gone, back in my BD days :eek:. I could too easily get fooled into thinking that a soft and accurate, but idle, test was better than it was. Likewise, sometimes I came out dripping with effort and exertion thinking we had completely b@llsed it up, only to find that it had looked really good. But then I was (still am) only an 'ordinary' rider who made up for lack of natural ability with loads of graft.

Also agree about the fact that cobs and hairys probably do better at affiliated. My lovely HW ex RS cob was a listed judge snob, his best results all came from List 1 and 2 judges. Think he pulled it out of the bag when he knew the experts were on the case!
 
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