Are we a dying breed

[windand rain]

I have just checked the entry numbers at our local county show, when we went every year class number entries were in the 50's with 30's forward this year number of entries are in their low twenties at best and fewer will present. Is it just the showing world that is dying or are the general horse owners older with fewer young people involved. Is it the IT age thats having that affect so more youngster prefer virtual to reality

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I think it's the unpredictability of the weather at least in part. We noticed spectator numbers seemed to be down at Bramham on the Thursday, when we went this year. The weather that day was very pleasant but rain was forecast (and happened) for the weekend. It must have been a dreadful experience for any-one who was camping!

Our local agricultural show was cancelled at the last minute on the Saturday, many people who had done all their show prep, will think twice next year, I bet, especially as this is the 2nd time in the last 10 years that show has had to be cancelled at short notice, for the weather.

 

[milliepops]

My local county show has changed beyond all recognition, they've moved it out of the town, brought forward from its original August summer hols date, the new site is on the side of a hill with the horse rings hidden out of site away from the shopping and entertainment rings so few people go to watch.
It was like a little local show tacked on to a weird mix of food stands/tat shops/tractor dealers 😅 I took a horse a couple of years ago but wouldn't be in a rush to go back tbh.
The main classes seem well enough supported tho and I think it's still a hoys qualifier.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

The cosr of everything has also gone up. What used to be £5 a class to enter is now £10-15 a class.

I have only been to 1 show this year because the judges at the others didn't suit and I am not paying upwards of £15 + first aid, before fuel, food etc and the day off of work to stand last in a class because I know the judge doesnt like the colour of my pony. I have done more stewarding and judging than I have shown myself so far this year and to be honest with every show schedule that is out I cant see that changing any time soon!

P.s. if anyone is going to the Aintree National Show next weekend give me a shout! I will be there Sat and Sun!

 

[NinjaPony]

I used to show inhand a fair bit, but honestly, since switching to dressage I don't think I'll ever properly switch back. It's such a lot of money and hassle, for very little reward. The judging is so subjective, like EKW said there are some judges who won't even look at a black welsh, for example, and all the top tickets tend to go to the same names. You get virtually no feedback if you don't place, and it can take a really long time for the class to start, and end. The hanging around is wearing, and the whole thing costs so much money! You see really bad handling rewarded, and bad riding too. It's a shame because I used to enjoy taking my pony out and about to the county shows. Even the veteran classes are a pain; I took my little welsh to his first veteran class and ended up standing in line for 45 minutes which is no fun for him or me, only to be told he didn't place because there were older ponies there, and I had to really push her for any kind of feedback.

Entering an unaffiliated dressage class is cheaper, quicker and less likely to result in raised blood pressure!

 

[catkin]

Much of it is cost - not so much the class entry fees for showing but the rest - transport, overnight stabling, paying someone to do animals left at home.........
We are also pretty busy earning a living to keep our ponies so a long and exhausting day has to be worth it! (if you've 'been there,done that' then you do start to think whether you'd actually rather spend time mucking about with the ponies at home.)

There also appears to be many more competitive options than there were years ago catering for all types/skills.

 

[minesadouble]

I think that the decline goes as far back as foot and mouth. That year seemed to start a real downward turn in numbers.
Shows local to me have been poorly supported and the riding pony situation is dire.
My mum breeds RP lead rein and first riddens and this is the first year I can remember that she has no foals expected and I don't think she'll cover anything this year either.
Shes not alone in this and it's definitely starting to filter down as she's had producers on the phone from all across the country saying they can't find any decent ponies.
The only classes popular in my locality
are CHAPS.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Thats the thing everone is turning to natives because there is no age restriction on the rider - they dont have to move up a height because they are out of the class. Natives are easier and cheaper to look after, easier to turn out for showing etc. So it's not wonder the plaited ranks are giving way to hair!

 

[Greylegs]

I’m involved with a local riding club which puts on a number of showing shows each year. Each one is generally combined with either jumping classes or Dressage and these aspects of the events are always fully subscribed and popular, whereas the showing classes are getting more and more sparsely supported. Another local club has stopped doing showing classes at all at its events due to fall off of numbers.

I think the reasons for this are many, including costs, general levels of interest in showing as an end in itself, and a preference for events with a more objective measure of success. Winning a fairly judged Dressage test or a jumping event where clear rounds count, is somehow more satisfying than being judged by judges who (as has been said) can discount a good animal because it happens to be black, or whatever.

If people feel that there is no point entering an event because they don’t have a chance of succeeding then they’ll stay at home, or switch disciplines to one where they are judged fairly on ability at any given level when competing against horses/riders with similar abilities. In showing classes, you can have the best horse/pony in the group but not succeed because your face doesn’t fit.

 

[awelshandawarmblood]

I think the reasons for this are many, including costs, general levels of interest in showing as an end in itself, and a preference for events with a more objective measure of success. Winning a fairly judged Dressage test or a jumping event where clear rounds count, is somehow more satisfying than being judged by judges who (as has been said) can discount a good animal because it happens to be black, or whatever.

If people feel that there is no point entering an event because they don’t have a chance of succeeding then they’ll stay at home, or switch disciplines to one where they are judged fairly on ability at any given level when competing against horses/riders with similar abilities. In showing classes, you can have the best horse/pony in the group but not succeed because your face doesn’t fit.

Spot on! I totally agree with this!

Showing is not back & white & subject to being judged on personal opinion. With rising costs, why would you make the time & effort to enter for example a coloured class with your TB type, when the judge may not even entertain it based on personal preference despite immaculate manners & turnout, preferring a gypsy cob instead that may not been so well turned out or ridden. We've all seen it happen!

I won't enter my D in showing classes since being told he wasn't in show condition many years ago! He's not lean by any stretch but healthy, if they think I'm risking laminitis for a frilly they can think again.

I know so many people who won't enter classes based on the above. Plus then you get the ones who place people based on stud status, friend of a friend etc. If you jump or do dressage, you either get it right or wrong regardless of your horses weight, horse type or colour of your show jacket.

 

[minesadouble]

From a local showing rather than affilated perspective I can comment from personal experience as for 10 years my friend and. I ran 3 local shows per year.
Over those 10 years the decline in the standard of riding was dramatic.
The in hand classes became hugely more popular than the ridden classes.

The first time we ran a walk and trot class it had 30+ entries!

The first year we ran a show the "open" jumping class was 1.10m. At our final show the 30/40 cm class was packed and we 2 entries in the 70cm!

Over a period of just 10 years I think that is quite a dramatic decline. Though I have to say it's also reflected in our clients too, I would say we'll over half of our current 50 + DIY livery clients would be classed as novice owners.

 

[tatty_v]

I’ve never been tempted to show despite having a pony who would do well in certain classes (according to an experienced showing judge on our yard - I wouldn’t have a clue!) predominantly because of the timing. When I go to dressage I get a start time, same for combined training, clear round etc. I’m not sure I’d be very good at waiting around or persuading my OH (trailer driver!) to do so either. That said, OH did loads of showing when he was a child and now we have a little person things might change in the future.

 

[oldie48]

Umm, just read this and wondering it I do want to show after all!

 

[honetpot]

Everyone has so little time now. If you have children they haves masses of homework, to ride well you have to ride often and have a commited parent, and most parents are hanging on at work to a to pay the mortgage, so come home cook, take the child to the yard to ride and do show prep is the last thing on their mind. The cost of venues is now about £500 a day, the little local show where you turn up with the pony just for fun is just about gone, they need £12 an entry.
I have two ponies that I sold as youngsters, both 'show'quality, nice ponies when backed, but they have come home sour, one has obvoiusly been stuffed with food to the detrimemnt of his health. I think in the opinion of my oldies a nice dressage test where you only have to make it look like you are doing as you are told for four minutes, its far nicer than trotting and cantering round for 20, while someone in a hat and unsuitable shoes makes their mind up that they are just,' not their type'.

 

[minesadouble]

I think showing is very difficult to understand when you are a newcomer.
Yes, an element of it is personal preference and just as well otherwise the same animals would win week in week out.
That said the judge is essentially looking for a well conformed equine, who is true to type an has a good way of going for its type.
Some judges might not abide an animal that is thick through the jaw, others may have a real think about a weak hindleg and so on so "personal preference" does not necessarily mean a judge is judging on the basis of trivialities just what is their least objectionable conformation fault and this wlll continue until the horse with perfect confirmation is born, none of us will hold our breath for that 😉

Sometimes part of the issue is people not understanding the class which suits their horse, or being unable understand how whilst their horse may be a lovely animal it does not fit into any particular showing "category".
At a local show that we organosed I had to deal with an outraged mother who told me how furious she was that her daughter had spent hours getting her grey pony immaculately clean and plaited for it to be beaten by a 'much dirtier pony' in the young handlers class.
I explained repeatedly, at length the criteria on which a young handlers class was judged and that it was not the same as a best turned out class but I literally could not get through to her and she still went away disgruntled.

There is 'facey" judging in showing, without a doubt, but I have witnessed this in dressage too.
There is also judging that I can't follow, the hunter judging at Bramham last week had me scratching my head a bit but just because I couldn't grasp what the judge was looking for doesn't mean it was "bent' judging.

A lot of people see their own horses through rose tinted spectacles, especially at local level, and seem to take it as a personal insult when they don't come out with a red rosette. Showing is one person's opinion on the day and is a bit of a specialist art. But it's not a closed shop at all, a girl local to me used to come to our shows with her kids and a little Welsh pony, not brilliantly turned out, bit rough around the edges, kids not in the 'right' gear just bouncing around an unaffiliated show having fun.
They decided to take it a bit more seriously, got some help from knowledgable showing locals and last year they qualified for HOYS. Same pony, same jockey who couldn't even make it into the top 6 at a local County Show just two years before.
I was brought up in a showing home and still love the art and tension of it to this day.

 

[PapaverFollis]

My personal experience of taking my horse to my first show was not very good and if we'd stayed in the area I would basically have written off showing altogether. I was treated a bit like I had crawled out from under a rock covered in shit simply because it was obvious I was a newbie (I forgot to put a hairnet on and didn't have expensive, well fitted gear). It was an in hand class and my horse bit my number and broke the string. The steward was chatting to another competitor watching me struggle to hold my horse and re-tie my number when she could have easily come and helped but she just kind of sneered at my stupidity instead. I got zero feedback or encouragement from the judge. Not even a smile or a nod. It was both horrible and hilarious.

I will however probably give showing another go up here and see if it's any more welcoming (Just been stewarding today and there was a nice friendly atmosphere). But seriously there was no incentive to come back at all at the last one.

 

[PapaverFollis]

To add. I don't mind coming at the bottom of the line at all. It's being treated as lower class or an annoyance/inconvenience because I'm not going to trouble the top of the line up that irritates me. When I've paid the same entry and done the work to turn up and support the event so that other people get to stand at the top of a line not be the only one in the ring I would hope to be treated with kindness and respect. And encouraged to keep turning up! Not sneered at.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

PV if you were ever in a class I was stewarding I would probably have chatted away to you as I tend to with people that are obvious newbies! It makes them feel welcome and wanted and keen to give it another go!

 

[windand rain]

I understand the answers re local showing but these are prestigious HOYS qualifiers direct access to the top show of the year it used to have so many ponies, over 50, (natives are my speciality) they didnt all fit in the ring but had to be brought in in groups now there are about 20 in each class entered and probably a lot fewer will turn up and as to the childrens classes they seem to be even fewer do kids not want to ride anymore. Locally showjumping is mostly adults doing even the 30cm classes fewer and fewer children seem to want to ride unless they are thrashing a poor pony round a set of jumps. I do not know how pony club is fairing but the last one I was at certainly wasnt over subscribed
Newark had the sum total of 3 lead reins and 4 first riddens this year again they used to be 50 or more in these classes

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I understand the answers re local showing but these are prestigious HOYS qualifiers direct access to the top show of the year it used to have so many ponies, over 50, (natives are my speciality) they didnt all fit in the ring but had to be brought in in groups now there are about 20 in each class entered and probably a lot fewer will turn up and as to the childrens classes they seem to be even fewer do kids not want to ride anymore. Locally showjumping is mostly adults doing even the 30cm classes fewer and fewer children seem to want to ride unless they are thrashing a poor pony round a set of jumps. I do not know how pony club is fairing but the last one I was at certainly wasnt over subscribed
Newark had the sum total of 3 lead reins and 4 first riddens this year again they used to be 50 or more in these classes

HOYS is too expensive. Its a producers game and you know who is going to win as soon as the judges are released. Yes people will do their local one because they can but not as many travel now. You have to be a member of something (breed society, tsr, nps, bsps etc) along with the £11.50 (last time I looked) HOYS levy on top of a huge entry feed making it £30+ a class. If I qualified for HOYS at my local show in Scotland and didnt enter any more qualifiers. Then went to HOYS I would be looking at the best part of £1000 for one class.

What really annoys me is that the showing subsidises the jumping! Entry fees and stabling at hoys is extortionate for showing competitors! Show jumpers? Bugger all! Same for Olympia!

Then you get the problem of kids. For the last decade kids have been put on ponies, sat up, told to smile and hold onto their "monkey strap" whilst the reins have knots in attached to a wilkie which all in effect forces the ponies head down. Ponies arent schooled these days and kids arent taught to ride. That child then gets too old for lead rein and move onto first ridden. But they have never ridden off the lead rein. They have never had to hold their reins. They have never had to steer, start or stop the pony. The leader has always done that. So they either become scared or disillusioned and give up very quickly. People need to teach kids to ride! Not to just look pretty!

Every producers yard should have a fun pony or two to get the kids playing about on. Falling off, getting back on, playing cowboys and indians! Playing tag, racing each other etc! But they dont. They are put on their show pony and thats that.

 

[rabatsa]

A few years ago I went as transport for a friends 12yr old daughter to a small village show. Her first pony and only owned it for a year. The girl shampooed and polished both herself and the pony. She spent two weeks plaiting it up every day learning how to do it. Her outfit was clean but not posh show stuff.

Her first class was condition and turnout. There was no expectation of getting placed but she wanted to do everything. After twice round the ring she was ordered out of the ring by the steward. She spent the rest of the day in tears wanting to know what she had done wrong. She did not go in any other class that she had entered and has never been to another show.

This was a small show where encouragement should have been given instead the poor girl felt humiliated.

 

[catkin]

I understand the answers re local showing but these are prestigious HOYS qualifiers direct access to the top show of the year it used to have so many ponies, over 50, (natives are my speciality) they didnt all fit in the ring but had to be brought in in groups now there are about 20 in each class entered and probably a lot fewer will turn up and as to the childrens classes they seem to be even fewer do kids not want to ride anymore. Locally showjumping is mostly adults doing even the 30cm classes fewer and fewer children seem to want to ride unless they are thrashing a poor pony round a set of jumps. I do not know how pony club is fairing but the last one I was at certainly wasnt over subscribed
Newark had the sum total of 3 lead reins and 4 first riddens this year again they used to be 50 or more in these classes

I suspect the answer is a combination of factors -

Have the kids got the opportunities to 'muck about with ponies' in the same way as older generations did? which instilled a love for the animals as themselves rather than a vehicle for competitive success only. Without that deep love and affection are families going to stick with what is hard work and expensive hobby?

There are very different pressures of modern life to even a decade or two ago - on time, schooling (can kids still get exeunts for the County Show?) reduction in places where people can ride as roads get busier and riding schools close. And that's before the sheer costs are taken into account.

I wonder if we are also now seeing the full effects of the financial crash when lots of experienced breeders either stopped or reduced their studs - those (non-existent) foals would now be the 9/10/11 year old potential Open ponies.

 

[Nudibranch]

I think it's a combination of all the above, and a big chunk of modernisation being needed too. Our nearest county show had only 11 in the adult large breed m&m class this year. Mine was far and away the youngest, being not technically 4 at the time so we had no expectations whatsoever but it was still irritating to see the same two very overweight horses placed 1st and 2nd, as they are every single year. They wobbled round the ring. Same judge, same horses, every year.

Even the chaps were down this year from what I could tell, and it normally pains me to see class after class of coloured cobs while the natives are squeezed into just 4.

Added to that, the tannoy wasn't working for the first 30 minutes and classes were so small they were racing through so a number of people missed theirs altogether. Not good.

As for the idiot who ignored the large open spaces and collecting rings, and cantered up and down between rows of boxes and trailers....

 

[OrangeAndLemon]

I had my first ever day out at a show a few weeks ago. We were going for fun, not to win. Low numbers (3 including us) in both classes and we were lucky enough to get rosettes. I know the judge doesn't have to place us, we weren't turned out correctly and he was a bit overwhelmed so went round with his head in the air.

I loved it. I'll be back next year. It was just a really nice relaxed day out. In a mixed heavy horse class, Suffolks never do well, and with a shire breeder as judge, we wont expect to do well but that wasnt why we were there. I wanted to show off my gorgeous big ridden heavy horse and give him a new and exciting experience.

Everyone was so lovely and welcoming. All the people who came to support had a great day too, it was a great big stable-family day out. Low numbers of competitors meant I got rosettes and prize money I would never have dreamt of...so thanks for staying away, it made my day even better

 

[Pearlsasinger]

To add. I don't mind coming at the bottom of the line at all. It's being treated as lower class or an annoyance/inconvenience because I'm not going to trouble the top of the line up that irritates me. When I've paid the same entry and done the work to turn up and support the event so that other people get to stand at the top of a line not be the only one in the ring I would hope to be treated with kindness and respect. And encouraged to keep turning up! Not sneered at.

That's awful! In every class I have ever entered, stewarded or judged, there has been a much pleasanter atmosphere and at RC level, new people have always been encouraged to have a go. They are the life-blood of the event and the club, after all!

 

[wattamus]

Having had friends competing in showing to a high level, I have been completely put off by the idea.
One friend won't show under a certain judge because he "doesn't like her horse" even though others will place it 1st every time....
Another has her horse ridden by a other person because "he doesn't place under her"....
Another pair go to the other side of the country to compete because they are so disliked in our local region that they don't place even though they have a horse that has qualified and done well at HOYS at least twice (under previous owners)
I think when it is so subjective, you just get the idea in your head of "what's the point in trying?" You could have to horse with the best conformation and way of going or it could be the most true to type but if the judge doesn't like the horse or you, you're screwed and all that time, effort and money has gone to waste.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I loved it. I'll be back next year. It was just a really nice relaxed day out. In a mixed heavy horse class, Suffolks never do well, and with a shire breeder as judge, we wont expect to do well but that wasnt why we were there.

See I tend to find that a breed judge judging mixed classes will be harsher on their own breed than the others! I had the Wee Coloured Job at Blair the other year under a dartmoor breeder/judge. 9 Shetlands, 2 Welsh (A & B) and 2 Dartmoors. The Dartmoors were last and 2nd last and to be honest deservedly so. But she could have put them up the line a bit for being her breed but she didn't they weren't good enough in her eyes. So of the 9 shetlands 8 were black then there was my skewbald who stuck out like a sore thumb! Both Welsh were grey. The oddball won the class! So anything is possible!

 

[DanceswithCows]

Reckon towing regs knock it on the head for a fair few youngsters too....

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Reckon towing regs knock it on the head for a fair few youngsters too....

Nah they just bankrupt themselves for decades buying a 3.5t on finance that they probably don't realise is completely overweight before they even get themselves or fuel in the thing!

 

[DanceswithCows]

Sounds so fun!!