Are we making it too difficult for the sake of it?

[Shady]

You need them! I love mine. I only have 2 but thats all you really need. The schimmel is the best thing I have ever used for general filth and scurf!

I was stuck on the merry go round of complicated and stressful horses. It was worth it for me as the pay off from having him was enormous. But now I have a different pony and I feel an enormous sense of relief. My criteria when shopping for the next one were pony sized, easy to keep and no mental or physical issues. She lives out 24/7 on a huge hilly field. No shelter, no hay in the field and she gets no hard feed as shes doing nothing to warrant it. I've got no school, no electric, and its a typical working farm, mud and a bit messy, but what I do have is that amazing field, access to a stable and lots and lots of quiet lanes to drive round. My friend almost talked me into moving yards the other day but when I thought about it properly, i decided to stay put.

Yeh, I get this LW and although I have a very no nonsense approach to my horses this is in part because they are both very easy to look after with no special needs at this point apart from a little help for arthritis. I also own my own land, only hack out and don't care what anybody thinks of my poo marked horse when I ride! It's maybe a little easier to keep things simple when it's just me and them.
I do however feel that many horses are so stressed out with their living conditions that they have no chance of being healthy and happy and all the things that are shoved into them to try and help just masks the root of their problems.

Off to look at more brushes now! . xx

 

[DabDab]

Absolutely Shady/LW - likewise it would be really easy if I just owned pebbles for me to merrily say 'yep, horse management is dead easy, turn it out, don't rug it, don't feed it, don't touch it's feet and it will always be fit as a fiddle and perfectly behaved'. Sadly they are not all like that.

 

[PapaverFollis]

I've been getting side eye at the yard for not giving Granny a daily brush. She gets incredibly muddy in the field as is happy like that. She tolerates a groom but doesn't enjoy it so now she's a retired duffer I figure I just let the mud crumble off itself most of the time and just do her feet which she loves (weird horse). But I brushed her tonight because last night someone made a comment and it's bugged me. I hate livery yards.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

fwiw (my POV only) I don't think Ramey was talking about horses with chronic conditions or competition horses but was just talking about the sheer amount of stuff the average horse owner is bombarded with that is not totally necessary i.e. a lot of feed, much tack, many rugs and most supplements and 'experts'. I think also maybe some of the problems we see now are not only how many people keep them (e.g. lack of turnout) but the breeds/types of horses that average people now keep. Worrying about xyz is getting in the way of people just enjoying having a horse and puts extra pressure on them financially to have all this stuff and do things that they perhaps don't need to.

for example: local livery yard I was at recently, everything clipped-apparently most only ridden 2/3 times a week (despite indoor and outdoor). So expense of clipping, rugging, worrying about rugging (because people do) and clipping when I expect none of those horses 'needed' clipping for the amount of work done. But everyone does it so everyone feels the need to do it.

 

[Arzada]

I've been getting side eye at the yard for not giving Granny a daily brush. She gets incredibly muddy in the field as is happy like that. She tolerates a groom but doesn't enjoy it so now she's a retired duffer I figure I just let the mud crumble off itself most of the time and just do her feet which she loves (weird horse). But I brushed her tonight because last night someone made a comment and it's bugged me. I hate livery yards.

A mud cover is nature's rug. Commit to a brush-free January. I can't remember when I last used a brush - probably before brush-free January 2018!

 

[Surbie]

I've been getting side eye at the yard for not giving Granny a daily brush. She gets incredibly muddy in the field as is happy like that. She tolerates a groom but doesn't enjoy it so now she's a retired duffer I figure I just let the mud crumble off itself most of the time and just do her feet which she loves (weird horse). But I brushed her tonight because last night someone made a comment and it's bugged me. I hate livery yards.

You're not alone. I think I am getting side-eye for the same reason at my new smart yard. He's lame at the mo having twanged a shoulder hooning about (I think), there's no point to brushing him to a glossy shine every day when he needs a greasy coat to be warm. I pick out his feet, check for scabby legs and take off any bits of mud that will whop him in the eye.

I don't know nearly enough about horses, and while I am learning I rely on my YM and professionals to help me till I do. Physio out on Monday to help assess lameness. Farrier's been with the hoof testers, and loads of people have been copping a feel of his legs to help me check for heat etc (I have reynauds, which is a right bugger in this situation).

 

[KittenInTheTree]

Simplicity is nice in theory, but if I stop bringing beet pulp and carrots to mine, they'll be pretty damn pissed off at me.

 

[Gloi]

A mud cover is nature's rug. Commit to a brush-free January. I can't remember when I last used a brush - probably before brush-free January 2018!

I was once told by a successful horse trainer "If you have time to brush your horse you aren't riding it enough"

 

[paddy555]

The reason I have low maintenance horses is that I would not keep one which wasn't. While this may sound harsh, it is practical and rather feeds into the whole tenor of the article and discussion. Sometimes it would be more sensible not to continue with horses (and certainly not to breed them) which have complex problems. So yes, they would be shot. I do not view this as an entirely bad thing.

I have some high maintenance horses quite simply because I deal with their problems. You only have low maintenance ones as you shoot the problems. I think it is difficult therefore for people in your position to suggest/imply that horse keeping has become over complicated. It hasn't for people in that category, the horses get shot if they become a problem. For those like me then attention to detail, "overcare" and problem solving become vital and the article is by far an over simplification. Yes of course people get sucked in by feed companies, horse supply companies, marketing etc but that is a different aspect.

Unless it was dangerous or in pain and a welfare issue (which is a different matter) it would never occur to me to give up on an animal because it had become high maintenance. Just getting rid of it is a bit like chucking out garbage when there is no further use for it.


I agree they shouldn't be bred from.

 

[SEL]

A mud cover is nature's rug. Commit to a brush-free January. I can't remember when I last used a brush - probably before brush-free January 2018!

With M i commit to a brush-free winter!! If anyone moans they can tackle his mud encrusted polar bear coat. He's not ridden and it'll moult off in the spring. Plus I refuse to rug him just for appearances - just for heavy rain which he hates.

 

[Rowreach]

I was once told by a successful horse trainer "If you have time to brush your horse you aren't riding it enough"

I've had several liveries over the years who spent hours and hours brushing their steeds because they were sh1t scared of actually getting on them

 

[JFTDWS]

My lot might see a brush before a competition / clinic (largely for photographic purposes!), but that's about it. I refuse to groom before hacking (other than scraping off any mud under tack!), when there's plenty of mud out there waiting to flick up and stick back to them as we hoon through it!

 

[Arzada]

With M i commit to a brush-free winter!! If anyone moans they can tackle his mud encrusted polar bear coat. He's not ridden and it'll moult off in the spring. Plus I refuse to rug him just for appearances - just for heavy rain which he hates.

Yep - the rug comes out to play in prolonged heavy rain and the rain and high winds combo. Two days this winter. Have to say I do like the very clean and very shiny horse that results from the action of the rug lining without any effort on my part! I also like the squeaky clean horse after a power shower from nature! And best of all I like the fluffy, looks like a bumble bee, version in this cold weather.

 

[scats]

Actually I think she'd be fine (maybe obese) if I chucked her in a field and forgot about her!

If i think back to my youth then things were a lot simpler for the humans but I do wonder how much our horses had to put up with that these days we're just more aware are problems. I'm pretty sure I had one with kissing spine - but I didn't know it was a "thing" & nor did anyone around me. We just mounted gently and dealt with his quirks.

And I also wouldn't want to go back to jute and NZ rugs!!

I’m also glad that many aspects of horse care have moved on. When I was a child, only one or two competition horses at our yard ever saw a back man.
As a child and teen, I was often the crash test dummy for anything prone to rodeoing or being an idiot, because I had nerves of steel and a Velcro backside. I do wonder how many of the repeat offenders I used to get chucked on had physical problems. Makes me quite sad to think about it really.

Although day to day mine are relatively low maintenance, I do have the dentist every 9 months, chiro every 6 and they all wear boots for work. Perhaps they aren’t so low maintenance after all...!

 

[MotherOfChickens]

I've had several liveries over the years who spent hours and hours brushing their steeds because they were sh1t scared of actually getting on them

see also: spend 2 hours mucking out and producing spotless shavings bed. and actually, as long as the horse's needs are being met and the owner is happy with that then it doesn't matter.

I'm also sure Ramey wasn't harking back to the old days either.

 

[Cortez]

Actually I rather think the article wasn't about managing, or over-managing, problems or conditions, it was more about problems that don't really exist, or don't need managing at all: things that have been introduced purely to create a market (and a profit).

 

[oldie48]

I was once told by a successful horse trainer "If you have time to brush your horse you aren't riding it enough"

What a load of cock! Just got in from brushing Rose (not really) and caught up with this thread. People own horses for all sorts of reasons, some to compete, some to hack, some to pet and love. As long as they are suitably fed and managed and don't kill their owners or anyone else, what the hell does it matter. some of this stuff is so judgemental. I didn't have horses in the olden days and have had to learn "on the hoof" so to speak but how many horses "in the olden days" lived to their 20's still in work and happy,not many I suspect. I think Ramey was saying enjoy more and worry less, which I endorse, but the advances in horse care and vet practice can't be ignored, most horses have better lives now than they did 20 years ago.

 

[milliepops]

fwiw (my POV only) I don't think Ramey was talking about horses with chronic conditions or competition horses but was just talking about the sheer amount of stuff the average horse owner is bombarded with that is not totally necessary i.e. a lot of feed, much tack, many rugs and most supplements and 'experts'. I think also maybe some of the problems we see now are not only how many people keep them (e.g. lack of turnout) but the breeds/types of horses that average people now keep. Worrying about xyz is getting in the way of people just enjoying having a horse and puts extra pressure on them financially to have all this stuff and do things that they perhaps don't need to.

for example: local livery yard I was at recently, everything clipped-apparently most only ridden 2/3 times a week (despite indoor and outdoor). So expense of clipping, rugging, worrying about rugging (because people do) and clipping when I expect none of those horses 'needed' clipping for the amount of work done. But everyone does it so everyone feels the need to do it.

This is very much what I took from it.

I know a lot of people who feel like they aren't doing the right thing of they don't buy the latest feed/supplement/rug/bit etc for their leisure horses.
They sometimes ask my opinion which is usually that the new bridle isn't going to be the thing that teaches them both an elastic contact or the latest supp won't fix their ridden issue. But because it's so effectively marketed they get suckered in any way. It's desperation and (I think) a sad unwillingness to accept that most things are fixed with time, routine and practice. It's a boring answer!

 

[milliepops]

I was once told by a successful horse trainer "If you have time to brush your horse you aren't riding it enough"

Whereas I thought this was a bit tongue in cheek
I don't do a lot of brushing tbh, the retirees are minging mudlarks and the ridden ones are clipped out so less mud sticks (=more time to ride )

 

[windand rain]

Each to their own I dont brush mine much they enjoy it when I do but we dont have muddy land and in winter they need their waterproofing as they live out. I do however think there are a lot of very fancy horses that are jumping out of their skins because they are over fed and underworkedl Horses bred to have a very high drive which become difficult so then are either sold on or become pets which exacerbates the situation

 

[MotherOfChickens]

most horses have better lives now than they did 20 years ago.

do you really think so? (am interested, not being confrontational). I grew up in the 70s/80s and no, things were not all rosy for horses back then. Working with horses in the 80s and early-mid 90s though I still think there was more practical horse management e.g. horses in work still didn't get lots of turn out but they did get a lot more work. horses not in a decent level of who weren't fed fancy feed or clipped etc. People were beginning to be more educated about things such as ulcers and fibre. it still cost more to keep a horse than ride regularly at a RS. what I see now is lot of people owning horses on too little grazing, horses kept fat year round and horses never in real work but expected to ride 20m circles on mainly poor footing. surely there can be a middle ground?


as for the grooming comment, I find it funny. I am i the camp that I often find other things to do than ride-keeping them at home and the way I do (no facilities at all) means that working him this time of year is not always an attractive proposition. I am trying to make a new habit of chiselling the mud of the important bits and riding, even if its only for 20mins, rather than detangle his mane

 

[catkin]

I love brushing my ponies - and they give every indication of enjoying it too.
It's a good time to check them right over.
I ride my ridden one most days too - but then I guess mine are not actually low-maintenance in terms of hours spent with them each day

 

[PapaverFollis]

I still manage to spend about 100 hours a day at the yard. It's not time constraints that mean I don't brush Granny, it's not a priority but if I wanted to I could brush her every day. She genuinely doesn't enjoy it hugely and I genuinely don't see the point.

My comment was about the way peer pressure works rather than about the grooming itself.

 

[cbmcts]

It's a bit of both really - the blissful ignorance that I certainly had as a kid in the 70s about health issues existed - I'd never heard of kissing spines or ulcers for our furry natives. Laminitis yes but tbh that was generally a death warrant. Saddle fit was checked at pony club and you rode to the forge so if you had a rubbish farrier it was unlikely that there was another option. 14 was old for a horse and it was expected to slow down and retire by 20. Not ponies though they went on forever. With hindsight though and if we'd had the vet knowledge we have now they probably would have lasted longer and many that were shot as 'unrideable' or 'dangerous' could have been sorted. Horses certainly were expected to earn their keep then rather than be pets then.

While I agree with the ethos of the article it is a completely different horsekeeping culture now. Horses are a lot cheaper to buy now but conversely a lot more expensive to keep mainly because a whole industry has risen to sell to that market. There are a lot more people owning horses now that may have ridden, even owned as children but due to H&S and the like ( my parents were blissfully unaware that I put my life in danger multiple times a day doing stupid things - they thought I was unlucky - or useless to fall off so much) so the two generations below me didn't get the breath of experience that I did. They were trained to always ask for an experts opinion before doing anything and that leaves them exposed to the clever marketing and not trusting their own knowledge.

Peer pressure on yards is a huge issue. I have been called all the names under the sun for not bucket feeding/clipping/rugging fat hairy natives that didn't need it. I have also had disapproving comments, on here too when I bib clipped a fat haflinger in February and left him out unrugged to try and get weight off when he couldn't be ridden due to lameness. Part of the 'advice culture' is that people see as their right to comment to others because they expect and seek comment themselves - that lack of confidence in their own knowledge.

 

[honetpot]

Whilst I think that feed/saddlery/vets/etc./etc. companies should be ashamed of themselves for marketing non-existent problems and the resultant insecurities to people, horse owners themselves should take a great deal of responsibility. Fitting a saddle is not rocket science, neither is feeding (although it has been turned into something that feels like quantum physics), but modern horse keeping somehow feels adrift from the old fashioned, practical world that I grew up in. The old nagsmen and stud grooms are long gone, but their wisdom and experience is still there if you can read a book...............

Can I double like??

 

[honetpot]

I was once told by a successful horse trainer "If you have time to brush your horse you aren't riding it enough"

Brush whats a brush.
Mine live under a regime of benign neglect. I will admit they are all oldies and young stock. They have their tails banged at the start of winter, so they are not in the mud. They are wormed, they see the farrier, watered and some even get hay. The last time I tidied a mane, at some time the pony had obviously pulled till he was sore, for him it was a stressful experience even though I was using a solo comb.
My biggest problem is with the weather as they are all blooming fat.

I think some of my lack of work load is due to selection. When I buy I choose animals that will adapt to a more natural regime, but I have found that even a thin skinned TB with the right company and the right amount of food will survive my ,' simple system'.

 

[windand rain]

I have owned horses for 50 years were things better for horses 50 years ago who knows. They certainly worked harder were not bred to perform and have overactive minds. I only met one small pony that had laminitis and it was a pig in all senses of the word and was PTS after yet again breaking into a feed room after which he foundered. Most horses were about modern condition score 2/5 so very slim. They were rarely clipped, lost masses of weight in winter they were fed oats, bran and molasses if you were lucky and had a chaff cutter they could have chaff as it was originally hay put through a cutter. Hay was straight off the field and bought in small bales or cut from the horses field and stored in a rick. Nagsmen and vets taught me everything I knew at that time Most home owned horses lived out 24/7 unless you were very rich when you had them in a fancy yard with a clock tower. Competitions were cheap and plentiful
Modern improvements are a great bonus breathable light weight rugs, better vaccines, better wormers, greater choice and knowledge of food although that is a bit of a two edged sword, Greater access to information by reading again not as good as the nags man as he/she would show you. Horses live longer as there are treatments for the symptons of old age. I learn everyday as that was what I was taught you should always have the will to challenge what you know and listen to everyone as in amongst the thousands of words there are a few gems that hit your mind and heart as pure gold

 

[buddylove]

This thread is very timely! Have owned my mare for 9 months, and during that time she hasn't really settled on the livery yard, and I have agonized over the various things that might be wrong with her.
Decision now made, she is coming home to be chucked out with the ponies 24/7 to see how she likes the simple life 🐴

 

[MotherOfChickens]

While I agree with the ethos of the article it is a completely different horsekeeping culture now. Horses are a lot cheaper to buy now but conversely a lot more expensive to keep mainly because a whole industry has risen to sell to that market.

Is it more expensive in real terms though? If you cut out all the 'unnecessary' stuff? I grew up on the Suffolk/Cambridge border. My first lot of ponies lived out on someone else smallholding and I'd have to ask mum what that cost but I know small bale hay was around £1-2 a bale in the early 80s. People gripe on here about having to pay more than that now. My last pony didn't do so well on that regime (TBxNF) and I had ideas above my station so pony was moved to a livery yard (no arena) with a local instructor. He was full livery except at weekends and she also exercised him (ride and lead) off of her her hunters. That was £18pw in 1984 and it was a lot of money then. Rugs, riding clothes etc were relatively much more expensive-we would part-ex my grown out of stuff at Sandon. That last pony I had was 11 when we got him, a PC and hunting pony for twin boys, cost £800-(we were able to afford him as I had an insurance pay out).
There were lots of shows from what I remember and we hacked to nearly all of them, noone had an arena-my friend and I would hack 8 miles to the local indoor and their amazing jumps and hack back again.

 

[catkin]

Is it more expensive in real terms though? If you cut out all the 'unnecessary' stuff? I grew up on the Suffolk/Cambridge border. My first lot of ponies lived out on someone else smallholding and I'd have to ask mum what that cost but I know small bale hay was around £1-2 a bale in the early 80s. People gripe on here about having to pay more than that now. My last pony didn't do so well on that regime (TBxNF) and I had ideas above my station so pony was moved to a livery yard (no arena) with a local instructor. He was full livery except at weekends and she also exercised him (ride and lead) off of her her hunters. That was £18pw in 1984 and it was a lot of money then. Rugs, riding clothes etc were relatively much more expensive-we would part-ex my grown out of stuff at Sandon. That last pony I had was 11 when we got him, a PC and hunting pony for twin boys, cost £800-(we were able to afford him as I had an insurance pay out).
There were lots of shows from what I remember and we hacked to nearly all of them, noone had an arena-my friend and I would hack 8 miles to the local indoor and their amazing jumps and hack back again.

I'd agree. I had a young horse kept on full livery in mid-1980s at a schooling yard. It was 25 pounds a week (plus shoes, jabs etc). I had just started my (non-horsey) career and it was huge chunk of my salary. For extras such as lessons I had an arrangement with the yard and helped out on weekends in exchange. It was worth the effort though, I learnt so so much.
Do you remember when every riding school and tack-shop had a rail of second-hand riding clothes for sale? Don't think I or any of my friends had new clothes, except maybe hats.