Are we making it too difficult for the sake of it?

[Pinkvboots]

I used to be very much of the mindset horses had to come in for the winter at night, but when I broke my ankle last year in November my horses had to stay out as I couldn't muck out, they were no worse off I bought them new thick rugs as it was freezing they had hay, so this year I have kept them out as much as possible, they have the odd night in if it's vile but I feel so less stressed about it, I don't have to worry about mucking out my bedding bill is very low, both horses are very chilled and happy I don't have a huge amount of grazing but it's coped.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Do you remember when every riding school and tack-shop had a rail of second-hand riding clothes for sale? Don't think I or any of my friends had new clothes, except maybe hats.

yep-I said on another thread that once or twice a year we would make the trip to Sandon Saddlery to part-ex my riding stuff for other, mostly secondhand stuff because I'd grown out of it. Hats and boots were always new (mum has a phobia of sh shoes lol). All of my tack was sh. when my last pony was (blanket) clipped I remember we found someone in Royston making m2m NZ rugs and jodhs-they were £22 and £9 respectively.

 

[cbmcts]

Is it more expensive in real terms though? If you cut out all the 'unnecessary' stuff? I grew up on the Suffolk/Cambridge border. My first lot of ponies lived out on someone else smallholding and I'd have to ask mum what that cost but I know small bale hay was around £1-2 a bale in the early 80s. People gripe on here about having to pay more than that now. My last pony didn't do so well on that regime (TBxNF) and I had ideas above my station so pony was moved to a livery yard (no arena) with a local instructor. He was full livery except at weekends and she also exercised him (ride and lead) off of her her hunters. That was £18pw in 1984 and it was a lot of money then. Rugs, riding clothes etc were relatively much more expensive-we would part-ex my grown out of stuff at Sandon. That last pony I had was 11 when we got him, a PC and hunting pony for twin boys, cost £800-(we were able to afford him as I had an insurance pay out).
There were lots of shows from what I remember and we hacked to nearly all of them, noone had an arena-my friend and I would hack 8 miles to the local indoor and their amazing jumps and hack back again.

Maybe it's just my perception and because I can't keep horses the way I prefer - out 24/7 - due to lack of land. This is comparing expensive South East England to suburban Dublin that still had lots of farms on the doorstep which of course isn't comparing apples with apples

Childhood livery on a farm was £5 pw including hay and bedding when required. Livery yards and stabling were for hunters and showjumpers not kids ponies. A bag of pony nuts or sugar beet was a couple of quid but they were annual purchases. Farrier (fronts only and I had to pay for them) was £6, a trim was £3. No insurance, worming was cattle paste annually, I think i was wormed better than the ponies I certainly ate more of it then they did. I can't remember how much the vet was but it was the same vet who did the cattle and sheep. Most of my ponies were loans but I did have one or two bought but they were pity buys from the side of the road and cheap but made ponies cost a fair chunk of cash or at least more than my parents could afford at the time!. Yes tack and clothes were all second hand or birthday and Christmas presents and it was very much one of everything rather than having spares. Hacked everywhere because we could. If I wanted to go out and about to PC or shows I had to pay for it as my parents covered keeping the pony but no more. Don't get me wrong I didn't feel deprived as I had as much as if not more than my peers.

Up until 10 years or so ago my horses were on a local grass livery yard that was fairly cheap - £25 pw - but understandably they overloaded the grazing, didn't repair fencing and I moved mine when the NH mob started taking over after a change of management. Even with cheap livery all other costs rose a lot in 20 years but it was once I moved to DIY stabling that they got high. Not that hay, bedding etc was so expensive but that I didn't have the option to buy in bulk because of limited storage and they stood in so much because of lack of turnout that I was using a lot. Because I work full time I had to pay for services when turnout was only half a day. Vet, farrier and insurance costs rose and rose. None of these costs were unreasonable - everyone needs to make a living - but because yards had to run this way to cover costs I couldn't save a penny or two by doing the work myself. Now I could stand my ground when I was getting told that my animals needed this supplement, that rug or the horse whisperer (yes, really) but there was pressure. It felt like an awful lot of money for very little with unnecessary stress tbh.

I know that the above is mainly to do with where I live but since I lost my last two horses I won't buy another until we move out of this area to somewhere less densely populated hopefully this year or next. Not just the cost but feeling that my horses weren't being kept to what I consider a reasonable standard of welfare was soul destroying.

 

[Inda]

Gasp.... so it was YOU that bought it
I REALLY want the sparkly unicorn one now
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Haas-Bru...=item1cb79ab4ce:g:9-UAAOSwBFVbhmbR:rk:42:pf:0
* sigh *

Ohh, glittery! The yard owner already despairs of me. I was left to my own devices and now have a sheep LW rug and and hedgehog MW. I can't be allowed in a tack shop unsupervised 😳

 

[MDB]

My three ( two in their teens and a 3 yr filly) live at home on a track system. They eat hay and grass. Nothing else apart from salt. I don't have a specific routine because I like my life to be flexible and I don't like early mornings. The only thing I routinely do is poo pick each day. The filly gets rugged in very cold weather or rainy plus windy weather. At the moment that is each night when it is below -5C. The rug comes off around 9am. Grooming and feet picking out are done when riding obviously, or else when i feel like it, I do it when they are loose on the track whilst they are soaking up the sun. They are barefoot. I rasp them every few weeks myself. They have never seen a chiro / osteo / saddle fitter or dentist. The vet on the other hand I see a bit too often. Lol.
I could not manage on a yard. It would be so restrictive.

 

[oldie48]

do you really think so? (am interested, not being confrontational). I grew up in the 70s/80s and no, things were not all rosy for horses back then. Working with horses in the 80s and early-mid 90s though I still think there was more practical horse management e.g. horses in work still didn't get lots of turn out but they did get a lot more work. horses not in a decent level of who weren't fed fancy feed or clipped etc. People were beginning to be more educated about things such as ulcers and fibre. it still cost more to keep a horse than ride regularly at a RS. what I see now is lot of people owning horses on too little grazing, horses kept fat year round and horses never in real work but expected to ride 20m circles on mainly poor footing. surely there can be a middle ground?


as for the grooming comment, I find it funny. I am i the camp that I often find other things to do than ride-keeping them at home and the way I do (no facilities at all) means that working him this time of year is not always an attractive proposition. I am trying to make a new habit of chiselling the mud of the important bits and riding, even if its only for 20mins, rather than detangle his mane

I was joking about the grooming but I do like my horse to look well turned out but not at the expense of being well looked after and ridden appropriately. I'm a member of a RC which is quite successful both locally and nationally, generally I'd say that member's horses are very well cared for, fit for their jobs and in suitable tack. Attendence at non mounted as well as mounted training events is good, in fact you need to be sharp off the mark to get booked in. Members are across the age range on a huge variety of horses and events like biomechanical workshops and equipilates are very popular as are talks by our local equine hospital. I first joined this club 19 years ago, with a long period in between when I wasn't a member, my own experience is that the standard of care and horsemanship has improved but that's not to say that I don't see some horses that are a bit porky or being ridden in poorly fitting tack but I genuinely feel that people's awareness is much greater. Also the level of activity on this forum demonstratesthat people recognise their need for help in managing their horses and then there's all the technical improvements in tack, rugs, bits etc.

 

[eahotson]

One of my ponies had his jags yesterday. I was catching up with that vet that (touch wood) I only see when that pony has his jags. We were comparing what it cost to feed mine and hers (lol!). She said that one of her sports horses was like a life sentence in expense, stress and poop (to top it all he's a minger in his stable).
I certainly know people for whom horse owning seems to be entirely fraught for no real reason -and then there are those who really do have rotten luck. I certainly was one of the former and then became one of the latter. I decided being the former didn't prevent becoming the latter (still with me?) so I decided I would go low tech and take the pressure off.

Anyway, this popped up this morning and I found it interesting-thoughts?

https://www.doctorramey.com/separat...jNv3VqSCv9x7864fEhSl66sDoNxPmXdqaeQpVKZirNz_s

Brilliant, loved the bit about if you are comfortable on your horse you are probably told you are doing something wrong.

 

[scruffyponies]

I came to the conclusion years ago that many of the 'needs' of our horses are caused by the way in which we have interfered in the first place. By restricting the diet and range of a free-roaming forager, we create the need for additional feed and hoof-care (and create mental issues too of course). Clip it and suddenly it needs a rug etc. etc.

Sometimes I feel guilty about the lack of 'attention' my bunch of semi-feral hairies get. But then, they're healthy, well-behaved and as far as one can tell happy... or so I judge from their willingness to be caught, worked and turned back out again at random - often without so much as a carrot for their trouble.

I have found that my horse-owning work-load is minimised by:
-Regular road hacking to effect a 'council trim' on the (barefoot) hooves.
- Rugging the poor doers and moving them onto fresh grazing in advance of the rest rather than bucket feeding.
-Using a sprung curry comb to get mud off the saddle area. The rest will wait until spring - they spend much of the winter rolling in mud anyway!

 

[tristar]

i think the article writer should concentrate on being good at their own job, and not bother writing useless articles trying to make themselves look so silly.

in defence of all neglected animals who would benefit from more not less care, and all the people out there who are doing their best to care for horses, whom i admire greatly, its really a bit insulting.

i hate that kind of non serious pixx taking for giving the impression to someone that horses are easy to keep, in fact the author shows their own lack of knowledge on the subject, keeping horses is probably one of the biggest commitments financially and emotionally, and sheer complexity of caring for and riding horses requires a dedication that should be admired.

the advances in medical care,,saddlery, feedstuffs and modern rugs is staggering, its easy to be stunned by the choices out there and its a long road to understand it all.

 

[Gloi]

i think the article writer should concentrate on being good at their own job, and not bother writing useless articles trying to make themselves look so silly.

in defence of all neglected animals who would benefit from more not less care, and all the people out there who are doing their best to care for horses, whom i admire greatly, its really a bit insulting.

i hate that kind of non serious pixx taking for giving the impression to someone that horses are easy to keep, in fact the author shows their own lack of knowledge on the subject, keeping horses is probably one of the biggest commitments financially and emotionally, and sheer complexity of caring for and riding horses requires a dedication that should be admired.

the advances in medical care,,saddlery, feedstuffs and modern rugs is staggering, its easy to be stunned by the choices out there and its a long road to understand it all.

The author certainly doesn't suffer from lack of knowledge.

 

[indie1282]

It's common sense really isn't it?
But unfortunately not everyone has that.
A lot is most likely down to a livery yard environment- peer pressure to keep up with others maybe? Everyone feeds this feed so you should too, you must clip your horse if you ride it once a month, horses must come in when its wet otherwise they will melt etc...

Mine are out 24/7 currently. They have plenty of hay and are adequately rugged. They are both sport horses and are very hairy and chilled. If it gets wet they will come in overnight but once it drys up they will be back out. They get no bucket feed at the moment. Some people would be horrified and think my poor horses would rather be left in for days on end because it 'could' rain for 5 mins....

I think things like the dentist, physio etc..is fine if/when they need it. It's the whole you MUST feed this or you MUST buy these boots/rug. And as for being frowned upon for not grooming your horse?? Bizarre!! But I have seen people spend over an hour grooming their horse to ride it up the lane and back for 10mins. Is it detrimental to the horse? I dont know. Does that horse enjoy the hours grooming? Again I dont know, it depends on the horse.

I think we should all try to keep things as simple as possible but not neglect the welfare of the horse - as long as we meet their basic needs. If buying it a nice fancy saddlepad or brush gives the owner pleasure then that's ok too 😄

 

[luckyoldme]

I've had several liveries over the years who spent hours and hours brushing their steeds because they were sh1t scared of actually getting on them

That's quite an unprofessional quote and one perfect example of why quite a lot of people find livery yards such horrible places. Not saying it's not true just that I'm assuming these are your customers you are talking about.

 

[Rowreach]

That's quite an unprofessional quote and one perfect example of why quite a lot of people find livery yards such horrible places. Not saying it's not true just that I'm assuming these are your customers you are talking about.

Oh lighten up - people have horses for lots of reasons, and so long as the horses are happy and the owners are too, it really doesn't matter if they are winning medals or hacking in the countryside or indeed enjoying a mutual grooming session. In my opinion.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

people have horses for lots of reasons, and so long as the horses are happy and the owners are too, it really doesn't matter if they are winning medals or hacking in the countryside or indeed enjoying a mutual grooming session. In my opinion.

Quite. How many times do we see a horse dor sale because 'they are wasted with me'? Either they arent being entirely honest and dont want that horse for xyz, or they really feel the horse should be out doing stuff-and competing/clinics is alot of extra time, effort and expense if you dont want to do it.

 

[scruffyponies]

It must be very easy to exploit the inherent worry which comes with horse ownership. Even the most relaxed of us (me?) spend half their life checking for changes in condition, and the other half worrying about the state of the grazing and/or fences. With novice owners in particular, it's an open goal for anyone who wants to sell a homeopathic/magnetic/magic wonder-mcguffin.

 

[Rowreach]

Quite. How many times do we see a horse dor sale because 'they are wasted with me'? Either they arent being entirely honest and dont want that horse for xyz, or they really feel the horse should be out doing stuff-and competing/clinics is alot of extra time, effort and expense if you dont want to do it.

I think my concern was and is for the owners who are spending a huge amount of money because they want to ride (or whatever) and find themselves with a horse that is wrong for them. It takes a lot of courage to actually admit that, and of course we all get attached to them so some people find it very difficult.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

I think my concern was and is for the owners who are spending a huge amount of money because they want to ride (or whatever) and find themselves with a horse that is wrong for them. It takes a lot of courage to actually admit that, and of course we all get attached to them so some people find it very difficult.

oh, trust me I know-ego can get in the way too (and am thinking of myself here).

 

[tristar]

i think rowreach has a good point, horses can be intimidating especially under circumstances which are not under your control, and the horse world does not reach out enough to help other people through the little humps that could see someone make the next step and on to the horse, no they would rather enjoy seeing someone fail.

i really do think that a lot of the more controversial articles about horses show big holes in the authors knowledge of horses, and should be dismissed out of hand, it seems to me they write such things to get themselves noticed, the only notice i give them is when i roll my eyes heavenwards and think here we go again.

its a bit like when i watch monty roberts etc and wonder how so many people get taken in by it all, and i do think the loading thing is brill but a lot of the other stuff is not

i think the main dislike i have is that giving people the impression that horses are `so easy` , there is too much neglect out there already, it might be better for someone to tackle that, but no that is not going to attract enough attention, but trying to bring other people down or look stupid is.

you just know when you read some of the stuff out there from doing things yourself they are bluffing.

 

[luckyoldme]

Oh lighten up - people have horses for lots of reasons, and so long as the horses are happy and the owners are too, it really doesn't matter if they are winning medals or hacking in the countryside or indeed enjoying a mutual grooming session. In my opinion.

Thanks for your advice ..I'm feeling quite calm relaxed and happy.I was merely making a point.

 

[JFTDWS]

I'm really struggling to see in the article where the author tries to make anyone look stupid or wants to see them fail. He's encouraging engaged owners to worry less and go out and have fun. He's encouraging people not to be sucked in by marketing gimmicks or peer pressure / yard competitiveness, to look for solid, scientific evidence before investing in products - these are absolutely good things, and not in line with encouraging neglectful owners.

His point that horses are easy... Well in the right circumstances, with the right set up and background knowledge, horses are pretty easy in some ways. If you don't have that set up, they're hard work. If you want to compete at the higher levels, they're hard work. Like most things, it depends on the circumstances - but as a general rule, I think most owners are better off simplifying things. Again, that's not neglect, but if you don't need to put stable bandages on every night, that's 5 minutes the owner can spend doing something more useful (a better muck out, or even 5 more minutes in the field). If you don't need to stable at all, that's a load of time saved to groom or ride, plus your horse will probably be fitter and healthier for it (assuming decent turnout etc). If you leave your horse looking a bit feral and muddy, provided you clean tack areas, the horse won't care, and you can spend more time out doing fun things together. If you don't have endless money, you could buy the expensive gadget, or you could save the money for a vet emergency / better quality hay / re-direct it to getting the horse a better living arrangement (or just leave it in the bank!) - if the gadget doesn't work, you're better off without it.

If the horse actually needs bandages / stabling / whatever, or the owner has the time and inclination to do it (and do it well), that's fine too. If the gadget really works and does something totally worthwhile it's probably worth the money. But if you're short of time and money, as many people are, his point, I think, is to make sure you're investing what you do have in the best possible ways, and not being suckered by marketing or peer pressure.

 

[PapaverFollis]

I think the point of the article is to encourage dedicated owners not to end up giving up horses because it all seems too difficult and expensive. Not to encourage neglect. Forage, water, shelter and an owner. That's your starting point. Over and above that is over and above "need". I think it's a valid point. I will certainly keep it in mind when I'm starting to stress!

 

[YorksG]

Horses don't know or care if their needs are unmet because of active neglect or ignorance, they simply experience the effects if their needs are no met. People can throw money at horses, but still make their lives miserable. Keeping horses simply and inexpensively can be more beneficial for the horse. I also wonder how many of the "advances" in vet care actually improve the quality of life for horses. Months of box rest may well be life extending, but is it worth it for the horse?
I am inclined t think that to many pepe have horses with too little knowledge of the animal and it's needs.

 

[JFTDWS]

Horses don't know or care if their needs are unmet because of active neglect or ignorance, they simply experience the effects if their needs are no met. People can throw money at horses, but still make their lives miserable. Keeping horses simply and inexpensively can be more beneficial for the horse. I also wonder how many of the "advances" in vet care actually improve the quality of life for horses. Months of box rest may well be life extending, but is it worth it for the horse?
I am inclined t think that to many pepe have horses with too little knowledge of the animal and it's needs.

Too much money and too little knowledge. I think that's my thoughts really.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

i think the main dislike i have is that giving people the impression that horses are `so easy` , there is too much neglect out there already, it might be better for someone to tackle that, but no that is not going to attract enough attention, but trying to bring other people down or look stupid is.

are you getting that from that article? because I am not seeing it.

 

[ElectricChampagne]

I agree with that blog. Absolutely.

He forgot to mention the livery yard which is full of other owners that you know obviously know better and look down at you for not having the latest fad, be it a saddle, a supplement, magnetic boots, or brushes infused with silver, turmeric, ergonomic bridle, a 700 pound helmet that actually isn't as safe as the 200 pound one you wear on your head.

I actually had someone ask me last week what brand one of my cheapo brushes was and that it couldn't possibly work at all cos I didn't spend 100 quid on it.

Eh what? its a grooming brush. it brushes.

the mind boggles.

 

[Cortez]

i think rowreach has a good point, horses can be intimidating especially under circumstances which are not under your control, and the horse world does not reach out enough to help other people through the little humps that could see someone make the next step and on to the horse, no they would rather enjoy seeing someone fail.

i really do think that a lot of the more controversial articles about horses show big holes in the authors knowledge of horses, and should be dismissed out of hand, it seems to me they write such things to get themselves noticed, the only notice i give them is when i roll my eyes heavenwards and think here we go again.

its a bit like when i watch monty roberts etc and wonder how so many people get taken in by it all, and i do think the loading thing is brill but a lot of the other stuff is not

i think the main dislike i have is that giving people the impression that horses are `so easy` , there is too much neglect out there already, it might be better for someone to tackle that, but no that is not going to attract enough attention, but trying to bring other people down or look stupid is.

you just know when you read some of the stuff out there from doing things yourself they are bluffing.

I don't think he's saying horses are easy, I get from it that they are actually quite simple and it's the owners who are being led by the nose to believe that it's all terribly complicated and they have to employ a vast array of "specialist" services/gadgets/foodstuffs/equipments/treatments/etc. and spend a lot of money, of course. I don't think that is controversial in the slightest, and he's not bluffing anything.

I really, really wish that people would spend a great deal more time, effort and money on getting proper professional instruction on the basic handling, training and riding of their horses, and a lot less on being convinced (unethically IMO) that the next gadget/supplement/wonder feed/brush, etc. will make everything alright. 9 times out of 10 the answer is very, very simple...........as per the article.

 

[hollyandivy123]

i think some of the problem is some gadgets etc are sold as a quick fix and if this does not help then things are changed to the next quick fix. you just has to look at how many different human diets are being advertised at the moment..........advertising is power, and in today's society short returns is the key.

things have changed over the years and yes i feel we are complicating things a bit. i never knew about calmer's until i moved to one yard and they were seen as part of the staple diet on this yard, in reality the horses where being fed as though they were just about to go round Burghley, out for a short time and the owners where only riding about 30 min due to time commitments.

i went through a feeding phase and then came out the other side, now it is only chaff and vit with a bit of linseed if the weight drops,

if you think about a normal wild horse are moving between 10-30 miles a day depending on food source and water, the upshot of this is better conditioned legs, wind etc

 

[Ambers Echo]

I was once told by a successful horse trainer "If you have time to brush your horse you aren't riding it enough"

That's quite reassuring! I always ride before jobs as the other way around would mean I run out of time for the riding. But that also means jobs get rushed and the horses don't get brushed much. I don't suppose they are bothered at all.

I have abandoned pony club rallies for now. The task of presenting 'clean and tidy ponies' at 9am on a Sunday to a scary PC instructor is not appealing.

 

[catkin]

All the discussion seems to be coming down to one principle - do what's best for the horse.

The principle may be simple - the understanding and learning is not, and it requires some long hours of study/observation/training and (dare I say) deep-down mental adjustment on the human side of the partnership.
It's not about whether or not we brush our horse, or whether he's got a saddle that impresses the neighbours (though if that's the saddle that fits him best then nowt wrong with that). It's about What does the horse need

 

[KittenInTheTree]

Hmm. Our three* live out with minimal intervention - feet trimmed, wormed, jabbed for tetanus, vet when sick, that stuff. They're very content, but since we only have two and a half acres, my OH and I spend a lot of time doing field maintenance to enable their lifestyle. I'm currently trying to rejig things ahead of this summer in order to scrape together a few spare hours each week for riding (sans saddle, barring miracle), but it's never going to be my top priority. The weeds need weeding weekly (although there are fewer every year), the turf needs levelling and oversowing as and when it's warm enough (by hand), the fences need checking daily (and fixing all too often, thank you neighbouring horses), and the poo needs picking daily (yes, really), otherwise come winter there'll be no decent turnout available, it's that simple. Since I can't spend all of my time at the yard, something has to give, and I'd prefer that it was riding rather than care.

On the bright side, at least I don't have any time spare to worry about keeping up with trends!

*One small horse (I've stopped measuring him) and two 12hh companions, so we're within the recommended minimum amount of land, before anyone passes judgement.