Argh! PPID, marketing and can the world just do one please?

PapaverFollis

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I'm an idiot.

So have suspected Granny might be crossing the line into PPID for a bit. But she hasn't shown any obvious symptoms so have just kept her low sugar, low starch and kept an eye on her. Especially as I didn't really have any symptoms, just a hunch. I started feeding a cushings specific feed because it looked good and she needed a bit of weight on (she also needs something tasty as she gets bute for arthritis and she was eating it happily)

Last few weeks she's started drinking more and peeing loads. Ok. Time for the vet. So will call tomorrow for an appointment.

In the mean time I started to have a bit of a Google about PPID. And I find mention that one study has found that chaste tree berries can hasten/worsen the symptoms... what's in the cushings specific feed I'm feeding?? Chaste effing berries!

For the love of everything! I'm angry and sad and feel stupid and defeated now. To be fair though it's probably nothing to do with the chaste tree berries. It was only one study after all. It might not even be PPID, other delights it could be are tumours or kidney failure amount other things.

I just feel like you can't win can you?

What were we saying about keeping things simple again?

Will be cancelling that feed from my feed order and rethinking what she gets instead!

*insert many profanities*

Poor Granny horse. ☹
 

SEL

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Poor you! Granny horse will be fine if it isn't Cushings and the vet will sort her if it is.

Although I'm with you on the 'can't win right now'. We have raised liver enzymes again - no flippin idea why. Maybe I should start googling everything I feed and its effect on the liver - but I'd probably end up shooting myself :-(
 

PapaverFollis

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☹ I think living in blissful ignorance might be the way forward. Is that the big guy? Or your mare? You're having a time of it this winter too!

Cups of tea and sympathy all round.
 

Micky

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.Or it could be EMS..bloomin frustrating for you, mine is ppid, never considered all these miracle cushings feeds that have come on the market, just kept it simple chop speedibeet salt linseed n vit e in winter..plus soaked hay and prascend..blood test will tell you wether it’s ppid.. ems is a different test and different pills!
 

_HP_

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Cushcare?...
This annoys me. my vet recommended this feed for my PPID mare despite it containing Chaste tree berries which is not advisable while using pergolide. And actually, the feed company are careful not to !mention PPID in their description of the feed despite the name
 

PapaverFollis

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Yup. My thinking was that it's low sugar, low starch with oil for condition... lovely, she doesn't get a huge amount anyway and there's some herbal guff in it but generally I ignore that other than it might make it taste nicer. Should have looked up chaste tree berries. I will be replacing it with a feed from a different company! It's frustrating because she was eating it with the Bute in quite happily and she's a fussy madam. I don't think I'll get away with just speedibeet and chaff.
 

SEL

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☹ I think living in blissful ignorance might be the way forward. Is that the big guy? Or your mare? You're having a time of it this winter too!

Cups of tea and sympathy all round.
The mare....always the flippin mare!! I would assume Cushcare is good for cushings too - clue being the name really.

Chocolate digestives for those of us with the more challenging 4-leggeds
 

PapaverFollis

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I'm thinking of stealing the Welsh D at the yard whose only requirement in life seems to be a tall friend with a rug on who he can stick his head underneath when it rains! 😂 He'd probably develop some complex health issue if he came to live with me though so maybe I'll just leave him to his current owner and just admire his toughness from a distance.

Hmmmm, choccy biccies.
 

Lindylouanne

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PF sorry to hear granny is causing you some angst but don't beat yourself up about the chaste berries. If you haven't already seen it there is a good FB group called ECIR - Equine Cushing and insulin resistance. A lot of very good sensible advice.
 

blodwyn1

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I feed my Cushing's mare cushcare condition with no problems, she is on half a tablet of prascend and last blood test showed her acth levels as normal.
 
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You have not hurt your horse! No harm done.

CTB are well known for providing relief of symptoms associated with PPID but just remember that only pergolide is able to effectively control ACTH, the hormone most associated with it.

A lot of people will use CTB in addition to pergolide but the use of pergolide and CTB together has not been formally studied so it's not clear what the impact may be long term.

I believe the only way in which the use of CTB might contribute in a negative way is if using it delays starting the horse on pergolide if they really need it.

Excessive peeing is a symptom more closely associated with Insulin Resistance. If you're concerned you should ask your vet to test insulin and glucose levels. If your horse is over 15 you should also have ACTH tested.
 

Leo Walker

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this! chaste berry is agnus castus which is used by some people instead of pergoglide. I've seen lots saying that it works by suppressing symptoms, so I think I'd be inclined to ignore one study unless it was inrcedibly robust and the evidence overwhelming!
 

JillA

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My old mare was on the chasteberry (then marketed as Vitex) trial and it did nothing for her. I did a little research and found that while it suppresses the symptoms it does nothing to actually manage the condition. Nothing really does except pergolide.
That's why every time I hear about a wonder feed or supplement I always check ingredients - it's amazing what they can claim without actually claiming, just by the name they use
 

PapaverFollis

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Thanks Milliepops. x

For information: this was probably the start of her slow downward slide that ended in a colic at the end of January. Gut melanoma probably, so the drinking and peeing more was probably actually due to that (tumours mentioned above) and not cushings at all. I was also noticing a messier bed which I think was her starting to be uncomfortable at night. I knew something was wrong but couldn't put my finger on it. The benefits of hindsight. Not that I think I'd have been able to do anything about it except PTS sooner anyway. And she wasn't ill enough at this point to do anything more than keep an eye on her.

I think the information on chaste tree berries and cushings is useful but this is a very sad thread for me tbh. Could have done without the bounce but since it's here I think it's worth the update.
 
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Thanks Milliepops. x

For information: this was probably the start of her slow downward slide that ended in a colic at the end of January. Gut melanoma probably, so the drinking and peeing more was probably actually due to that (tumours mentioned above) and not cushings at all. I was also noticing a messier bed which I think was her starting to be uncomfortable at night. I knew something was wrong but couldn't put my finger on it. The benefits of hindsight. Not that I think I'd have been able to do anything about it except PTS sooner anyway. And she wasn't ill enough at this point to do anything more than keep an eye on her.

I think the information on chaste tree berries and cushings is useful but this is a very sad thread for me tbh. Could have done without the bounce but since it's here I think it's worth the update.
I am so sorry for your loss and for the bump. I did try to check for an update via your more recent posts but didn't catch that you had lost your mare. Many hugs to you and her.
 
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