Arhtritis in fetlock. bioflow boots and cortaflex... comments please

[merlinsquest]

My 8 yr old horse has just been diagnosed by x-ray with serious arthritis (the vets words) in one fetlock.

He has never been lame, just goes very slightly short in trot.. ie doesnt quite track up. Flexion test shows a very minimal change but not hoppin lame and as i have said he has not been lame in the 2 1/2 years i have owned him.

It only came to light as i had his back checked out!!!

Any comments about boots and cortaflex would be very welcome as i am devastated by the news that he could be in pain.

 

[mrussell]

I use a magnetic band that can be left on 24hrs around the fetlcok (or above the hoof as I use it). Its worked wonders. £25 so cheaper than Bioflow. www.magnetic.uk.com I think!

Im trialling Pernamax but used to use Cortaflex and NAF 5* Superflex....

 

[merlinsquest]

Thanks for that,

Have looked at the site... would it be an idea though to wear a pair of boots to help the other fetlock long term???

 

[maestro]

We had a livery diagnosed llike yours. Put him on Synaquin expensive to load the but did a very good job.

 

[mrussell]

I dont - and I dont use boots as they can be too heating (found the band very powerful and extremely good value for money). I have considered using a pair but was a sceptic til i took it off for a day and he went down hill - so only ever ordered one and just havent had the spare dosh to get another one. hes only got arthritis on one side at the moment - no signs of it in the other joint.

I had synequin on prescription but didnt find it as effective as Cortaflex.

 

[merlinsquest]

When you say heating.... do the legs get sweaty or is it internal... sorry if thats a thicky question, i have not needed to use magnetic stuff before. Do all the magnetic things do the same thing or are there different strengths?? Prob another divvy question so please no one comment if it is!!!!!!!!

Do you know what caused your horses arthritis or is it a mystery??

 

[brightmount]

[ QUOTE ]
Im trialling Pernamax but used to use Cortaflex and NAF 5* Superflex....

[/ QUOTE ]

Pernamax would be what I would have suggested. I've been using it since August on my neddy and the improvement has been very noticeable.

Superflex seems to come out better than Cortaflex whenever the topic comes up on this forum. I am also using Mobifor, which is vet strength Superflex. I don't think its effect is as great as Pernamax though.

 

[polaris]

Synequin excellent!!!!

 

[mrussell]

In my experience neoprene cant be left on for more than a couple of hours without the legs getting hot. Add to that the stimulating effect of magnets, the underlying tissue will get hot and moisture builds up under the neoprene.

The bands are made of thin webbing that do up with velcro so they can be left on 24/7.

That said, people do swear by bioflow (boots for exercise though - wouldnt suggest they are used for turnout) so its really trial and error to find the best combination for your neddy.

I had the N.E.W magentic bell boots and they were C.R.A.P.

 

[Theresa_F]

I used the same bands as you on Cairo - he has one on each leg, fronts under the fetlock as he has low ringbone and between fetlock and hock on the rears as he is stiff in his hocks in canter now.

He also had cortaflex. Finally I have started him on linseed, and yesterday he went like a rocket - far better on his back end than he has been for a while.

He does not require bute, but without the bands does.

 

[aran]

i'm sorry to hear about your horse
i'd stable bandage to keep the joint warm - maybe try the bands. i wouldnt keep boots on for too long as they do tend to sweat and some rub.

have you tried a glucosamine/chondroitin sulphate mixed supplement and also omega 3 oils?

plus try to not let him stand around too much as this can cause the joint to stiffen up.

 

[merlinsquest]

Thanks for so many responses,

I have borrowed a pair of Bioflow boots and have ordered cortaflex as it seems to come up trumps!!

Will decide if i want the boots or bands (prob bands as i can leave them on all the time).

By the way, if anyone is interested i found a picture of merlin today on the front page of a local riding club website (and i dont even belong)!! Its from last feb when we were in supposedly the best of health ..... poor merlin, cant believe he can no longer jump.. will ask the vet tomorrow if he really meant no more jumping ever or if its just the end of competing regularly... he has still to date, touch wood, showed no signs of lameness :-(

www.trrc.co.uk if anyone wants to look, he is the black one with white socks!!!

 

[Theresa_F]

Cairo wears his bands all the time and has done for over a year.

We still do small jumps - but only on very soft ground or in the school. The main thing to avoid is tight turns according to my vet. He said jumping logs and such like for us are ok.

That said Cairo is so good at the moment, I am going to take him in the 2' clear round Xmas jumping at Harolds Park and will probably get out my Father Xmas suit to really have some fun over some tiny jumps and at a slow speed and no cutting the corners.

No competitions - we may both forget ourselves and go for it.

As said, cortaflex and linseed really seem to help and the magnets should not do anything, but there is something that they do for Cairo to keep him pain free.

 

[Andy66]

I run an equine supplements business and we have a joint supplement that is designed especially for horses with arthritis. It is higher spec that both Cortaflex and Superflex but also includes Devils Claw which is a potent natural painkiller. You therefore get all of the benefits of a high spec joint supplement which helps to build cartilage and synovial fluid but also a painkiller to help the horse feel more comfortable. The product is Premier Flex Plus and you can find details of it at www.equineanswers.co.uk. Its also cheaper than the above!!

 

[Tierra]

Hiya

Sorry to hear about the diagnosis of your poor horsey. Ive had two horses in the past with arthritis... one in the fetlocks and one in the hock so here are some ideas

Firstly - Both my horses had a treatment of Adequan shortly after being diagnosed which is a drug (i believe) designed to aid the production of more synovial joint fluid rapidly. (Im sure someone can correct me if im wrong on this!).

My younger horse, who's x-rays had shown arthritis in the hock which seemed to stem from a nasty injury when he was 3 responded amazingly well to this treatment. I cant remember if we had x-rays taken again after the treatment but I do remember he came back into work 100% sound and returned to competitive show jumping. I sold him onto a friend of mine and unfortunatly, the horse was killed on the road a while later, but at that point he was still 100% sound and that was 5 years later.

My older boy who was diagnosed with arthritic fetlocks was in his 20s. The adequan made him much more comfortable although he would still have off days (particularly when it was very cold) where he'd walk out slightly lame. He was ultimately retired, but to be fair, he was an old lad and had seen a lot of action in his life.

I remember the injections being quite expensive but its a pretty short course of them. Im not a vet so don't know whether adequan can only be used in certain circumstances, but both horses I have used it on have been much, much better after treatment.

Moving on to magnotheraphy.

Im a huge advocate of magnotherapy and use it on horses regardless of whether they have any problems or not. Someone correctly pointed out that the neoprene used in magnotherapy brushing boots often makes horses' legs sweat and this means they arent great for using over night. There are numerous makes of magnetic leg wraps on the market though, ranging from some made of like a thermatex material to other, tougher stable boots with cordura outers. I use the legwraps on my boy every day (bar when i have to wash them!) They're on all night and we have zero problems with these on his legs. If you go down this route, Id recommend steering clear of the wraps made of the thermatex type material and go for some with a cordura outer. These will be much much tougher!

Personally, id go for leg wraps as opposed to bands since they kill two birds with one stone - the legs are kept warm as with bandages (important with arthritis) and you still get the advantage of the magnotherapy

Ive also turned out in the Bioflow brushing boots but Im really not keen on leaving neoprene boots next to a horses leg for a long period. (My horse had whacked his front tendons with his back hooves which is why we were turning out in them).

Stable bandages are another option and Ive always found them effective for horses with arthritis. Keeping the joints warm is excellent for preventing the initial stiffness that many sufferers feel when they first start walking after being stood for a while. They're certainly a cheaper option to some of the magnetic boots! My old old boy who was arthritic always had his legs bandaged as, despite the adequan providing good results, he was still slightly lame after being stood in over night. Bandaging would generally stop this and he'd walk out like a youngster in the morning.

Regarding Cortaflex. Ive always had good results with cortaflex although I know other people who say they have seen no difference. Personally, I have found that Cortaflex is better for horses fed on more of a preventative basis and that once there is an actual issue, it doesnt tend to be strong enough to display much effect.

There are other (stronger) supplements available though and your vet should be able to advise on these. Again, Im sure someone will correct me if Im wrong here but I believe you can buy a stronger formulation of cortaflex that is solely available through your vet? Aside from this, there is another supplement available which certainly claims to be stronger than Cortaflex, details of which can be found here:-

http://www.newmarketjointsupplement.co.uk/

Now, I know this is only available through your vet and I also think its rather expensive (Im sure a livery on our yard is paying about £100 / tub) but its also supposed to be the strongest glucosamine / chondroitin supplement available. Compared to standard cortaflex its very expensive stuff so Id ask your vet about his / her opinion first.

Lastly, regarding arthritis, its important that when they're in work, that you keep the work consistent. The worse thing for arthritis sufferers is for them to be stood around doing nothing. Keep the work consistent... avoid too many off days (they only seem to suffer for it anyway) and be aware that it might take him a few minutes to walk off any stable stiffness (ive seen numerous people jump on their arthritic horses, feel they're slightly stiff, jump off and throw them back in the stable)

Anyway, be sure to explore all your options and I hope you find something that works for you both

 

[Tierra]

p.s. Remembered that the vet strength version of Cortaflex is Cortavet! (knew there were two versions)

Also found a site where you can get both Cortavet and the Newmarket Joint Supplement without going through your vet. This can be found at:-

http://www.btowstore.com/epages/Store.sf/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Store.Shop805/Products/122415

 

[merlinsquest]

Hi,

Thanks for comments and advice, I have put a pair of bioflow boots on today and he didnt get sweaty legs, so hope they will be ok, he is having a scan on the suspesory ligament tomorrow so keep your fingers crossed for me!!

Will ask vet about which supplement he thinks best, I might get some from the insurance then....

Keep sending advice, its all great to read.

Thanks

 

[merlinsquest]

Hi again,

Fro those interested, scan showed minimal damage to ligament so good news there

Have been advised to go for the irap therapy, he had shock wave therapy today and to put him on synequin.

Does anyone know where to get this other than the vet as it will use up so much of the money that the insurance will hopefully pay up. The vet nurse says it costs £150 a tub and that this will last 1 month.......... gulp, now i love my horsey but HOW MUCH DOES THAT COST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If i have got this wrong please please correct me, tell me it lasts a year or something..... i can get cortaflex for £165 a year, would that be almost as good, considering he isnt lame at the moment anyway???

 

[Tierra]

For the synequin:-

http://www.btowstore.com/epages/Store.sf/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Store.Shop805/Products/81024

Notice that it does still require a prescription so you need to get that sorted before buying the stuff from anywhere else. I dont know how much is required per day, but it is going to work out expensive (similar to the new market stuff).

http://www.btowstore.com/epages/Store.sf/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Store.Shop805/Products/122415

I assume there is going to be a dosing period which would result in your first tub lasting for a shorter period of time than subsequent purchases. But you really need to know exactly how long it will last you after then.

A fellow livery has her horse on the Newmarket stuff and Im sure the 1.5kg tubs of that last her about 5-6 weeks (after the initial dosing period). It certainly seems to have done her horse a lot of good and she used that on advice of the vets at somerford park.

My personal advice would be that if the vets are recommending synequin, then "normal" cortaflex isnt going to be all that effective. Cortaflex tends to be better as a preventative measure in my experience but once a problem has been identified, its not necessarily strong enough. The vet strength version of Cortaflex (Cortavet) is certainly stronger and the like for like price on the same quantity is cheaper:-

http://www.btowstore.com/epages/Store.sf/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Store.Shop805/Products/119374

(Notice that the price there is for a tub about half the size of the synequin).

But again, without knowing the exact doseage its hard to say how they will actually compare in price.

There obviously IS a difference in the performance of the supplements.. otherwise at the end of the day, there wouldnt be two different forms of Cortaflex

 

[merlinsquest]

Not sure if he is recommending it because his 'friend' is a rep for it (i think thats what he said, certainly felt that it was better tested etc)

As posted earlier the horse isnt even lame!!! just had him out for a back problem (poss caused by moving badly coz of fetlock) but even on a flexion test not lame enough to try nerve blocking, which in my opinion isnt lame really.

Just that his fetlock is a slightly different shape to the other one and 'he would want to know why if it was his horse'

I dont think if it wasnt for the back i would have even been calling the vet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good job i did as if we catch it earlyish (altough the joint is quite bad) we have a better chance than once he is actually in bad pain. If that makes sense x

 

[Tierra]

At the end of the day it's your choice

Your original post says that he is short in trot which in itself says the horse is lame. If the x rays showed - as the original post says - a serious level of changes to the fetlock, then I'd imagine you're going to need a pretty strong supplement.

Did you ask your vet about the comparison between synequin and other supplements e.g. Cortaflex? It's hard to comment on the difference between the supplements since Im not actually a vet

Im *assuming* it comes down to a strength / purity / other ingredients kind of issue.

Looking at the other replies to your original post, it seems both synequin and permanax (Im not familiar with this though) are rated quite highly. Id have a good chat with your vet and explore all the options and then decide from there

If your vet thinks Cortaflex would be worth a try, then you could always buy some and see what the effects are... if its not touching the issue, then perhaps move onto some stonger stuff

If on the other hand, the vet doesnt think the more "normal" strength supplements are going to do much good, then personally, id save your money and just try the stronger ones.

I agree with you though, its expensive stuff !

 

[merlinsquest]

Yes i know what you mean about the shortened strides, but really it only came to light when he twisted his back.

The only way it shows is that he does not quite track up, which was not picked up by pippa funnell or mark phillips, both of which i have had lessons with in the last 5 months and i would assume they would have spotted it if it was that bad!!

So not what you would class as lame, but i agree it must be painful to some degree.

My problem is that i cannot afford £150 per month for the synequin plus the possibility of 1k a year plus for more of the irap treatment.

Can anyone shed any light on how much the synequin really is and how long a tub lasts as the vet nurse was a bit unsure, and i know that all supplements are available in different sizes.

Dont get me wrong i will do what it takes but not willing to buy the synequin just because his mate is a rep, and if cortavet or flex would really be enough.

BTW i can get another well known joint aid product for free because MY friend is a rep, but not sure of results so not keen to use that, so i am not a complete cheapskate really

SO HELP ON PRICE AND HOW LONG IT LASTS PLLLLEEEEASE

 

[judymoon]

Have a good look at www.kinesishealth.com who have a gel called Conquer, its 100mg of HA pain relief properties and will make a big difference to swelling its similar (with out getting scientific) to Adequan but natural (it does come in injections but obviously pricey) and this is a once a day oral gel so no need for invasive injections, definately worth getting the bumff from them

 

[cevans]

I'm a Pernamax Equine fan too - have my dogs and horses on it. They offer the loading dose free if that helps ...??

 

[merlinsquest]

Update>>>>

Merlins fetlock has reduced in size, must admit that i thought it would stay the same!!!

Not sure if its the shockwave, danilon, cortaflex, magnetic boots or what!!! But who cares as long as its improving.

Hoping to start Irap on friday, so any information about others that have had it would be great.