Arthritic horses on bute - what are yours doing?

[ChestnutConvert]

The tile says it all really, preparing for the time that mine has to go on bute for her arthritis and was wondering what people were doing with their horses that are on bute.
Seems that keeping them moving helps but are there any out there that do more than hacking after starting the bute? Or am i missing the point that when it gets bad enough for bute and steroids not working that any other career is over?

 

[Blythe Spirit]

My fathers arthritic gelding is on bute and he hacks him for 20 miles several times a week. The horse was very fit anyway. He has asked the vet if this is too much for the horse but the vet maintains it's good for him so long as the horse enjoys it. The horse can still do a little dressage for me too though it lacks the fluidity of his youth he can still do obedient lateral work. horse seems to love going out. We don't jump him anymore but he still would jump small fences. Horse has gone on like this for 4 yrs now and seems pretty stable.

 

[JFTDWS]

Buting a horse to work it is wrong, in my opinion. Bute is to make a horse comfortable, not to facilitate working it into the ground. If you give a horse painkillers, you don't repair the damage making it lame, you mask it, and you mask signs of further degeneration.

 

[Dizzydancer]

I think on low dose bute like only for after working then gentle hacks and maybe some light schooling helps. Once ours went to needing it daily he went for very occasional walk down lane or a wander in hand most weeks. Moving helps but not lots.
As for steroids that's different they are given to aid healing not as pain relief therefore if steroids injections are used i would continue working.
BS Im not sure that can be good for horse or it obviously doesn't need the bute.

 

[Copperpot]

Mine has DJD and has had injections etc. He is field sound and is starting to look better than ever now he lives out. When I try being him back into work, if I can get him fit without needing bute, I will give him some so I can still hunt him. 2 the night before and 2 after. It's a degenerative disease anyway so I know it will get worse with time and if he needs bute to stay field sound as it worsens then so be it. I don't have a problem with giving a horse a bute a day so it can still have some kind of useful life.

Although I am hoping regular injections and other ways will allow management of his condition to allow him to remain bute free as long as possible.

 

[Ditchjumper2]

If a horse can work comfortably on bute I don't see the problem. The side effects are minimal. Mine have hunted on bute. I would rather a horse have a shorter life doing something it loved than being stuck in a field "retired" and often slightly neglected. If he is happy then just do it, you will know when enough is enough.

I am on anti inflammatories and steroids...what's the difference?

 

[ihatework]

I have no problem with working a slightly older / creaky horse on bute. Obviously when you get to that stage competing days are over, but depending on the horse hacking, schooling, light hunting are all possible. Again (depending on the horse) keeping them in work on a bit of bute can be beneficial to them.

 

[ihatework]

Meant to say, just be mindful of correct warm up/ cool off and be extra careful of surfaces/ground conditions

 

[unbalanced]

My horse gets a bute from time to time when she is having a stiff day or when she has worked harder. The vet agrees with this. She enjoys working and she is always better for having been worked. JFTD, I appreciate what you are saying, and I used to feel that way until I got to this point with my horse. However, if she didn't have some bute to help her along now and then I wouldn't be able to exercise her to make her feel better. When she has enforced time off (even field rest) for something else, I start to think the end is coming. When I bring her back to work (with or without bute, whatever she says she needs) she drops years.
I will hopefully do some sponsored rides this summer - maybe we will jump, maybe we won't, whatever my horse says. We have classical lessons every week and they really help her. We do hacking and schooling, don't really jump. Last summer we went to a gymkhana and did a WHP at a local show. I think it is a case of listening to your horse and talking to your vet - there are no hard and fast rules really. What is right for one horse on one day won't be right for the same horse on another day, never mind for a different horse.

 

[AdorableAlice]

Buting a horse to work it is wrong, in my opinion. Bute is to make a horse comfortable, not to facilitate working it into the ground. If you give a horse painkillers, you don't repair the damage making it lame, you mask it, and you mask signs of further degeneration.

You cannot repair arthritic joints. You can make a horse comfortable and enable some horses to continue leading a useful life. Many people use pain relief to enable them to continue working, earn a living and be useful in society.

Your comment, if correct and adhered to, puts a bullet in many thousands of horses heads.

My old hunter did 10 seasons on one bute a day. He died at the grand age of 29 having enjoyed several years of retirement still being pampered, rugged, stabled, fed and having bute. Without the bute he would have been finished at just 12 years of age.

 

[JFTDWS]

You cannot repair arthritic joints. .

Quite. As I say, bute doesn't solve the problem, and in many cases, masking the problem to continue to work it will dramatically shorten its working life. You were clearly very fortunate with your horse. Most horses will suffer from toxicity, further joint degeneration or other serious welfare issues within that sort of time frame. Bute has a surprisingly narrow therapeutic window and really isn't the sort of drug I would consider subjecting a horse of mine too long term. Humans may choose to take NSAIDs to continue doing a sport seriously, but they have to live with the consequences of that choice.

unbalanced, I'm talking about regular dosing, not sporadic use - that's a different kettle of fish entirely.

 

[Tobiano]

very pleased to see AdorableAlice's post on here as our Harry is only 10 but had bone spavin in both hocks, and we give him a danilon a day. Vet is very pleased with him, he is comfy and will hack and do unaffiliated dressage. Harry is fortunately someone who lets you know if he feels uncomfortable and if one a day keeps him comfy I think that's the right thing to do. We dont compete or hunt him though I think he would rather enjoy a day out with hounds!

 

[Slightlyconfused]

My 22 year old is only on danilon when it is cold, wet, snowy or she has hoolied around on hard ground....she schools hacks and does a little but if jumping on a surface. She has arthritis in her hocks.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

The tile says it all really, preparing for the time that mine has to go on bute for her arthritis and was wondering what people were doing with their horses that are on bute.
Seems that keeping them moving helps but are there any out there that do more than hacking after starting the bute? Or am i missing the point that when it gets bad enough for bute and steroids not working that any other career is over?

My experience with Arthritis is , its best not to disguise the pain with bute, first address the issue by trying


Help with Equimins Flexijoint which gives lubrication or , there are other ones but Flexi is one I have tried - tested and got results:

If you have lubrication you don't have pain
No pain no need for bute

See previous members post saved here

http://horse-care-and-advice.weebly.com/a.html



.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Have a friend who's horse is on a danilon a day and she does all of the above, and she is 27, she tried retiring her but she got depressed. As long as its just a maintenance dose and you aren't asking for more than the joints can give its fine

 

[Scarlett]

My boy was on bute daily after having his hock injected, he had secondary SI issues too - probably from compensating for the hocks - and was treated with accupuncture. He has only had 2 sachets butes ever since then, and only given to him as a precaution after jumping or a long ride. He's started jumping a little again as he has got stronger and recently started offering medium trot in his schooling work - something he could never have done before. Would recommend it to anyone in a similar position..!

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Also my mare refuses to eat any type if joint supplement....

JFTD...I agree to a point with you but also there is the point if view that if the horse still wants to do it and is still up for it why is one danilon a day ( I think Bute is worse for them than Danilon) to keep them comfy bad?
I won't do any more than that, if she ever needed more than one Danilon she would be retired.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Apart from the damage to internals with high dose of bute. I see nothing wrong with taking a bute a day providing other things are done too like joint supplement. ATEOTD some humans have to take pain killers daily for arthritis , or other things so I see no difference . And if the horse is happy no problem.

 

[Blythe Spirit]

Apart from the damage to internals with high dose of bute. I see nothing wrong with taking a bute a day providing other things are done too like joint supplement. ATEOTD some humans have to take pain killers daily for arthritis , or other things so I see no difference . And if the horse is happy no problem.

I agree - I may add that the horse I was speaking about in my first post also has other treatment for his arthritic hocks other than just buteing him and is carefully overseen and managed by one of the best horse vet practices in the area with many years of experience. He has always been and continues to be one of the most cheerful horses I have known, appears to love all the work he gets and is also fit and healthy in every other respect according to the vets - his management with lots of turnout and lots of regular exercise with an eye to suitable speed and suitable surfaces appears to be doing him good. My father who is his regular rider who is 76 this year takes a lot more medication than he gives his horse to be able to ride! And when Luke tells us or the vet that he has had enough he will be retired and loved and my father will get another younger mount suitable to hack out on. At the moment I am not sure who will go on longer - my father or his horse!

 

[Laura-Maybe-IV]

Hi there,

My mare has the first signs of Arthiritis in her stifles, she does very well on Devil's claw, which helps promote blood circulation around the joint, therefore reducing swelling. I have had great success with it on a horse with ringbone, and one that had a tendon injury and it is cheaper than bute.

I swear by Devil's claw, although you can't repair the damage you can ease the pain, I use this in conjunction with MSM and glucosamine.

I exercise her lightly in the winter and the in the summer she is ridden 6 days a week, and does really well. I build up the muscles slowly and try and avoid lots of circle work. Hacking really helps as well especailly a gentle hack in the winter helps with stiff joints. Lots of turnout is essential too.

 

[Rollin]

One of my old geldings was on BUTE for two years till pts at the age of 27. He had arthritis in his hocks and worked gently till a few weeks before being pts as advised by my vet.

He loved his hacks out and I think it improved his quality of life no end.

 

[pipper]

Buting a horse to work it is wrong, in my opinion. Bute is to make a horse comfortable, not to facilitate working it into the ground. If you give a horse painkillers, you don't repair the damage making it lame, you mask it, and you mask signs of further degeneration.

What a load of cobblers!! Many of us take a paracetomol ect to enable us to work/rest/play and enjoy our life so why is it so wrong to let horses lead an active life without pain. Not everyone can afford to keep a horse as a field ornament so the alternative would be to PTS - riding/working/hacking ect with a painkiller is a much better option for a much loved horse is a much better option IMO. No one is saying that working an older stiffer horse 'into the ground' just keeping it sound/comfortable and active. BTW - i would be as lame as a dog without a painkiller or two a day - should i just stay in bed and watch tele?????

 

[oldywoldy]

We have quite a few retired racehorses and ex dressage horses the ones that need it are on herbal wise a/r in their feed and they are all fat happy and well I will not give a horse long term bute. We had one ex 4 star horse who was on 6 bute a day he was just coming off 18 months box rest when he arrived I was v cross and v horrified at all of this all under vet supervision. Anyway we got him out gradually over a period of months and he was on no bute for quite a while he has since had another problem and is back on danilon but only short term. They do a/r for dogs too which also really works and being herbal does no harm

 

[Mondy]

Buting a horse to work it is wrong, in my opinion. Bute is to make a horse comfortable, not to facilitate working it into the ground. If you give a horse painkillers, you don't repair the damage making it lame, you mask it, and you mask signs of further degeneration.

This.

 

[HashRouge]

Mine isn't on bute yet, and I want to keep it that way for as long as possible. She has been off for the best part of a year to allow ligament damage in her right fore to repair itself the best it can. I don't know if this was linked to her arthritis or not (she has arthritis in the coffin joint of that foot) but after plenty of time off she is now sound and I am hoping to bring her back into light work, as she's the sort who loves being out and about and is always jogging along with her ears pricked. I think it's quite hard bringing an older horse back into work (she is 20) after a lot of time off, so I'm doing it very slowly and am starting by long reining up and down the drive at the farm. It is almost a mile long and hilly, so is ideal for long-reining. If she stays sound, I will hopefully start riding her again in 3 or 4 weeks. She shouldn't have had as much time off as she has really, but she developed cushings over the last year and kept getting abscesses, so I found it hard to judge if she was sound, and if it was because she was stiff or if she had an abscess brewing! Touch wood and fingers crossed we have put the worst of the abscesses behind us now, but we'll see! Anyway, when she was first x-rayed and shown to have arthritis the vet gave me a big box of bute and said to use it as and when it was needed, but touch wood I haven't really needed it yet. She is turned out as much as possible - 24/7 if I can - and when she comes out of the stable in the morning she is usually a bit stiff, but she tends to walk it off after an hour or so out. I don't think bute would really help with that too much, so as long as she is sound I prefer not to use it. If I can get her fit and she stays sound, without bute, I will hopefully be able to get back to hacking her out fairly regularly. I don't plan on doing much schooling though, and I certainly won't be jumping or doing any high-impact activities like hunting. Atm I'm not sure what I'll do if she comes to need bute to be comfortable on a day to day basis, although I suspect I will retire her. She is my childhood pony and she doesn't owe me anything, so keeping her in work isn't THAT important to me.

 

[Auslander]

being herbal does no harm

I'd be very careful about stating that something can do no harm, because its herbal. In the wrong hands, or used maliciously, herbs can do an awful lot of harm. People just need to be aware that herbal doesn't necessarily mean gentle and safe.

Obv not talking about this supplement particularly, although I would be loathe to use it as I cannot see a breakdown of the formulation or whether it contains the recommended dose of glucosamine and chondroitin - those well known herbs

 

[sophiebailey]

As advised by my vet; an arthritic horse is more comfortable when it's in work. To ensure it can work comfortably an anti-inflammatory (danilon) or pain killer (bute) can be fed to ensure its fit enough to relieve the pressure on his joints.

A horse on either medicine that's left unworked in the field will quickly stiffen and decline to the point where PTS is the only option.

A working horse on danilon/bute can have many happy years hacking + competing. A retired horse in the field will probably only last until the next cold winter.

The vet said that the damage that feeding danilon/bute long term can do is VERY unlikely to effect the horse in its lifetime, and most will be PTS because of the arthritis before seeing the side effects of the drugs.

I much prefer to have my Bailster happily hacking out on one danilon a day that to see him miserable, bored and stiff in his field with nothing to look forward to

You have to see the change work + buting has to an arthritic horse before you can condemn it!

And (for most people) we're not buting to 'work the horse into the ground' that's a very outlandish statement, we're managing their creakiness/pain to such a level so as they can hack out and visit a little show every now and then!

 

[Spotsrock]

Mine's chilling in field and stable. She is 32 though.

 

[RaYandFinn]

What a load of old tosh to say buting on the longer term is wrong. It depends entirely on the horse, the circumstances, and the dose required to keep them comfy.

My boy has bi lateral bone spavins, which can't be injected as have started to fuse. He's on half a bute every other day. Some days he is stiff when first ridden, but as long as we take things gently, it soon works off.

He loves his work, and will out walk any other horse on the yard. Worst thing I could do would be to stop riding him. He does hacking and light schooling to help strengthen his back and learn to carry himself better. Crikey, if everyone retired when they start to creak a bit, I'd have been out to grass at 18!

 

[Copperpot]

Mine is only 9 and I did retire him, take his shoes off and turn him out. However seeing him gallop round his field and regularly jump the 5 bar gate between fields I'm thinking perhaps he can come back into work. I'm happy to keep him forever whether ridden or not but it seems such a young age to write him off completely. I am having shoes put back on next month and I shall see how he is without pain relief. He is on a joint supplement. If he needs bute so be it. I have bought a box of danilon actually so will try that first.