Arthritis-bute-diahorrea. Old pony at the end?

Firehorse

Firehorse

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Long one, sorry! My 22ish year old pony was diagnosed with arthritis and put on 1 sachet of bute a day in roughly March. He's been doing ok, jst gentle hacking on vets advise. Some days are better than others. She saw him for his 6 month check up and suggested to double his dose on bad days now. Or before farrier etc. Three days after she'd been we had our first frost and the next morning he refused to pick up two feet, which he's never done before. Since then I've doubled his bute roughly every other day as I can't go back to yard before dark 3 days a week due to work. (He lives out) Anyway, he's a little better lifting his feet but still struggles with one hind. But he's also doing cowpat poos. I've had to wash his back legs and tail almost on a daily basis since September. I think the bute has taken its toll on his stomach, which has always been sensitive. The vet suggested something I cud try and I txt her yesterday for advice. However I'm beginning to think perhaps it's time to let him go. His legs aren't gonna get any better and the bute isn't agreeing with him. I can see it becoming a loosing battle of try this remedy or give his this injection. I feel it is unfair. When riding on one of his good days, he struggles for the first 20 mins walking very slowly and carefully, which breaks my heart as he was an excitable, fwd, fizzy pony before. But then reverts to his usual keen self on the way home, although we generally only walk now. He's alert, happy in the field, good appetite. But I don't want him suffering in any way. I hve the farrier tomorrow and if my pony struggles I think I will be forced to make THAT decision. However, if he copes (on double dose of bute) is it worth trying stomach remedies? I'd be happy to retire him from riding but the vet said to continue as that's all he's ever known. I'd rather hoped he'd have a year or two of retirement before the end came. It will kill me to say goodbye to him as he is my first and will be my last horse. But I don't want to keep him going if he's suffering. Any thoughts pls.
 
Have you tried danilon, as that is gentler on their stomach?

Also, I'm not sure why your vet has an aversion to retirement. There are a few rare horses who really can't seem to cope with retirement, but most settle to it really well and given your horse lives out I'd be inclined to stop riding and see how he goes. My old mare is also 22 and has been fully retired for two years in part due to arthritis and in part because she is really too small for me (had her since I was 11) so although I was light enough to ride her, once she started to get stiffer I decided it was time to stop. The vet also recommended daily bute/ danilon for her but to be honest since she's been retired I haven't bothered and she just gets the odd sachet here and there if she is having a period where she is feeling stiffer. She's actually thrived on retirement and I'm hoping she will have many more years left, and she still technically has a job as companion to my sister's pony :). Also, is he still shod? Because I would at least remove the back shoes as that would hugely reduce the amount of time he has to lift his back legs for the farrier. I'd be cautious about removing the fronts if he is very stiff just in case he struggles without them (not sure that's fair) but most of them don't even notice the back shoes coming off. My mare doesn't find it as easy to lift her hind legs anymore (she can't get them as high but the farrier is very accomodating of that) but just for a little trim she is fine, although I think she'd struggle for shoeing. I do think it might be time to stop riding your horse, but that doesn't mean it has to be the end just yet. I'd at least try retirement and see how it goes. And ask your vet about danilon too.
 
Thankyou. He had his hind shoes removed 8 weeks ago and has been fine. The vets opinion on riding is that he may go downhill faster if retired as that's all he's ever know. Since January I've done less and less with him anyway. I stopped riding in summer while the ground was hard and led him out for little walks. I hadn't ridden for two weeks until Thursday and then jst walked him gently. He is 3/5 lame on 3 legs in walk. She said I may get another year out of him but I'd be happy to retire him if it's for the best. I jst don't know whether to carry on trying different medication. I feel like that's jst prolonging things.
 
I think your vet is wrong about retirement, personally. However, 3/5 lame on three legs in walk sounds very lame to me - mine is never lame in walk but you can identify a slight stiffness sometimes (when it first started to get colder she went through a stiff phase where she was scuffing her back legs for a few days) and she generally looks soundish in trot. I would certainly not be comfortable riding anymore, bute or no bute. Personally, I would talk to your vet about getting some danilon, stop riding, and see how you go. If he doesn't show any improvement, you may sadly be looking at the end, but in your shoes I would want to at least try retirement. It is so difficult with older horses, but ultimately you do need to follow your instinct. If you think it isn't fair to keep him going any longer, you are probably right as you know the horse. I can give advice based on my own experiences, but I think when you see your horse every day and have a bond with them you know, deep down, better than anyone whether they are happy or not.
 
I'd say he's happy in the field. He lives with 6 others. When I let him out he enthusiastically trots up the yard to find his breakfast. Last night in the semi dark he came cantering down when I called him. Followed by the others! And then they all went cantering back up when I put him back him. And I enjoy jst leading him out for a walk or graze on nice days. I know his time is coming. The vet said he is the lamest case she has. It's jst knowing when that time is. I'm so busy with work up till Xmas and I'll be away for 4 nights and the weather is crap so I doubt I will ride anyway. Maybe I'll give him till new year. Someone recommended Naf Gastriaid so I cud try that. The vet had something to try, I've forgotten the name, or injections.
 
Firehorse said:
I'd say he's happy in the field. He lives with 6 others. When I let him out he enthusiastically trots up the yard to find his breakfast. Last night in the semi dark he came cantering down when I called him. Followed by the others! And then they all went cantering back up when I put him back him. And I enjoy jst leading him out for a walk or graze on nice days. I know his time is coming. The vet said he is the lamest case she has. It's jst knowing when that time is. I'm so busy with work up till Xmas and I'll be away for 4 nights and the weather is crap so I doubt I will ride anyway. Maybe I'll give him till new year. Someone recommended Naf Gastriaid so I cud try that. The vet had something to try, I've forgotten the name, or injections.
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I think if he seems happy, that is the main thing. You sound like a really caring owner - just follow your instinct, I'm sure you'll know when it's the right time for him xx
 
From what you are describing this isn't a horse I'd be continuing to ride (and I'm generally pro keeping them going on bute if a bit creaky). IMO the best you can do is maybe look to switch the painkiller and give some stomach support, fully retire the horse and see how he goes. It is possibly nearing the point where you need to evaluate quality of life.
 
Thankyou guys. That's all helpful. I've decided to stop riding. I'll lead him out if and when we get some dry weather. There's a lovely park jst up the road he can mooch about grazing. After the farrier tomorrow I'll reduce his bute again and seek something for his stomach. And take it from there. Each day is different with him. I'm gonna spoil him rotten from now on. Lots of attention and grooming and his favourite parsnips.
 
Firehorse said:
Long one, sorry! My 22ish year old pony was diagnosed with arthritis and put on 1 sachet of bute a day in roughly March. He's been doing ok, jst gentle hacking on vets advise. Some days are better than others. She saw him for his 6 month check up and suggested to double his dose on bad days now. Or before farrier etc. Three days after she'd been we had our first frost and the next morning he refused to pick up two feet, which he's never done before. Since then I've doubled his bute roughly every other day as I can't go back to yard before dark 3 days a week due to work. (He lives out) Anyway, he's a little better lifting his feet but still struggles with one hind. But he's also doing cowpat poos. I've had to wash his back legs and tail almost on a daily basis since September. I think the bute has taken its toll on his stomach, which has always been sensitive. The vet suggested something I cud try and I txt her yesterday for advice. However I'm beginning to think perhaps it's time to let him go. His legs aren't gonna get any better and the bute isn't agreeing with him. I can see it becoming a loosing battle of try this remedy or give his this injection. I feel it is unfair. When riding on one of his good days, he struggles for the first 20 mins walking very slowly and carefully, which breaks my heart as he was an excitable, fwd, fizzy pony before. But then reverts to his usual keen self on the way home, although we generally only walk now. He's alert, happy in the field, good appetite. But I don't want him suffering in any way. I hve the farrier tomorrow and if my pony struggles I think I will be forced to make THAT decision. However, if he copes (on double dose of bute) is it worth trying stomach remedies? I'd be happy to retire him from riding but the vet said to continue as that's all he's ever known. I'd rather hoped he'd have a year or two of retirement before the end came. It will kill me to say goodbye to him as he is my first and will be my last horse. But I don't want to keep him going if he's suffering. Any thoughts pls.
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Horses/ponies with arthritis generally to better if they have daily turnout and are ridden daily. The work doesn't have to be strenous, a 20 minute hack will suffice. The problem with turning away a horse or pony that has worked all its life is that it will very quicky deteriorate with its ligaments and joints becoming loose and floppy. Maybe this is what the vet is referring to when he says 'this is all he has ever known'.

Bute is usually problematic when given in high doses for a long period of time and like others have said, danillon is kinder on the stomach.

You say he struggles for the first 20 minutes when you ride him. Is this stiffness which wears off after this amount of time has gone? If he has a good appetite, is cantering in the field and looks happy and alert then I would say his quality of life is good.

If he is 3/5 lame then that is a lot and maybe you need to consider trying something else other than riding. I am suprised that your vet has suggested to continue to ride your horse unless they have said this is okay so long as you double the dose of bute on a daily basis to see how you get on.

I take it he has been down the steroid injection/tildren route previously? Not sure how ethical it is given his age, (and even if it is applicable to your horse because you don't say where the arthritis is) but if its his hocks then fusion by ethanol is a good solution, its a very quick procedure, relatively cheap £300 for both hocks and will ensure that the horse instantly doesn't feel any pain anymore in his hocks, with the hocks fusing some 12 - 18 months later. It doesn't hurt the horse (other than the slight scratch of the needle) and has had very good results. This will keep your horse going for a long while and ensure that he has a pain free life. He may never be able to do anything other than hack, but if that is enough for you, and enough to keep him ticking over and stop further stiffness then that sounds like a good idea. I think a lot of older horses are having this kind of treatment, as it is normally the last item in the vets armoury of things to be tried with arthritis, and comes after steroid injections and tildren have failed, therefore by the time you get to the stage of fusion you are looking at a fairly older horse. You might like to ask your vet if he/she recommends shoeing your horse differently. If he is placing is foot under him in an effort to counteract the pain of his arthitis a different shoeing method (lateral extensions) will alter his gait and could make him a lot more comfortable.

Giving a bute to a stiff horse before being shod is a good idea, and my vet has suggested this with my horse, particuarly if he is stood in his stable for any length of time prior to shoeing as he has arthritis in his hocks and gets stiff and so it could be difficult to shoe him (although the farrier has never said he is any trouble)
 
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Think I'd struggle with a vet that encouraged the riding of a horse lame on 3 legs.

My mare is 20 and has arthritis in her knees, hocks and one hip. She is retired and has been for several years. She is thriving and is currently sounder than she's been in a long time. She is still shod in front as it helps her knees with the break over. Tried no shoes but as my vet predicted her arthritis worsened in her knees. So shoes back on, instantly happy horse.

She was on daily bute, edging up to two a day and nearing 'that' decision. I started her on turmeric and to be honest haven't looked back. She has been bute free for about a year now apart from a couple for shoeing and is so much happier and moving well.

Maybe worth a try for your boy and I would definitely retire, best thing I did for my girl and despite what you read to the contrary, her arthritis has improved retired.
 
My friend's pony, who lives with mine started getting really bad with arthritis at about 20. He had it in his knees, hips and hocks and was really quite lame all round. He was retired into the field and was still happy in himself and with his fieldmates. After a couple of years being lame and wondering if he should be PTS he started improving. He is now 27 and though his action is a bit odd as he moves in quite a stiff legged way to what he used to he seems no longer in any pain when he moves and likes to charge around more than he's done for years. I think some of the painful places must have fused over time.

I would try changing the bute for Danilon for your boy, and hope that sorts his stomach out. I've not used turmeric but it might be worth a try as lots of people swear by it. Good luck.
 
In terms of his stomach, if you do decide to persevere with the bjte or danilon I would suggest you try him with slippery elm. It's a powdery product that you add to the feed and it lines and lubricates the gut lining, reducing inflammation. My old ponies weren't on painkillers but as they got older their digestive systems really struggled and I was having to wash hind legs and tails at least weekly. The slippery elm helped enormously. I got mine from Hilton Herbs. From memory, it wasn't terribly expensive.
 
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