Arthritis, opinions? (also in veterinary)

sarelis

sarelis

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A friend of mine has a 17.2 IDXTB, 18 years old this year. He has been intermittently lame for the last few months, firstly behind, now in front as well. My friend has been using a chiropractor & has had some sort of spiritual healer to see him, but this poor boy was not improving so I finally told her to stop fannying around & get the vet. He has been to the lameness clinic today & has been found to be riddled with arthritis in every joint of his forelegs. They have not investigated his hinds as of yet as he has been through enough for one day, they want him to come back next week for further tests. She has been advised that he needs box rest for the next few days, then he can be turned out on dry, level turnout without other horses only, and has to be stabled at night. She is obviously very upset, and is busy making arrangements for him to be kept as advised. I feel terrible for her, but at the back of my mind I am wondering if it is really in the horse's best interests to keep him going? Has anyone here got any experiences that they could share? My feeling is that as a large, heavy horse, who let's face it is not getting any younger, who turns himself inside out when turned out alone & whose condition will probably worsen, it is actually fair on him to keep him alive? I have no experience of horses with chronic arthritis, an anyone tell me how effective the treatments are at halting the progression of the disease & keeping the horse comfortable? Also she still doesn't really have the full picture as his hind end has not been looked at, the vets have also said that he could have a bone disease or problems with his tendons too. My friend is perhaps not the most objective person, I am concerned that she might keep him going out of sentimentality even if this horse is not going to have a decent quality of life :(
 
i can fully sympathesise with your friend, after having my heavy cob diagnosed with chronic arthritus of the stifle and fetlock (both rear legs are effected) i was absolutely heart broken. At the time of scans i was told my options were to either pts or retire on a life time of painkiller. I spent hours at the vets contemplating what would be the right decision for my boy, we decided to bring him home and put him on pain killers and see how he goes. 4 weeks later and i cant believe the difference in him, although he can still be turned out with other horses unlike your friend, he has improved so much and i'm so glad i didn't have him pts. my vet and i are looking at injecting the stifle to see if this will help, that way he can come off bute for a period while the injection is working. Your friend will have to make one of the hardest decisions but only she knows how he is coping pain wise. I made a commitment when i bought him and i will spend every last penny keeping him pain free until the time comes when i feel we can no longer manage his pain. there is alot vets/ physios can do to manage the pain, tell your friend not to rush into a decision and seek advice to pain management, but at the end of the day she can only make the decision as to what is right for her horse, and sometimes only time, trial and error and how much money she is prepared to spend will help make her decision!! Good Luck x
 
Thank you for your reply, wow I'm so glad your cob improved, there is light at the end of the tunnel then :) Will he ever be suitable for ridden work again? The thing that was worrying me the most about my friend's horse is that every article I have read on treating arthritis has been dealing with it in specific joints, according to her vet he has it in every joint in the forelegs & it is quite advanced :( She has only had him about 6 months :( I know that she would do anything & everything to keep him as comfortable as she can, she is absolutely breaking her heart over him.
 
A friend of mine has a cob who is 30 years old and and had been diagnosed with ring bone. She was prescribed 2 Danilon daily and was also on other supplements to make her comfortable. She had not been ridden for quite a while. Following the success of cortisone injections on another friends horse she changed her vet and asked for his opinion on whether this was viable for her mare. The vet decided it was suitable and the change in her mare is incredible. She is able to ride her again albeit short gentle hacks. She is almost completely off the Danilon and with careful management of her turnout is now cantering around the field and certainly does not look anything like her age. I believe the treatment does not work for all cases but my friend thought it worth a try to make her girl comfortable and as an alternative to pts. She did not expect to ever ride her again so that is a huge bonus. Obviously at 30 she knows she wont go on forever but if she can make her last years comfortable and pain free feels it is worth it. It may not be suitable for your friends horse but it may give her hope. Fingers crossed for a happy ending.
 
It sounds like your friend wants a solution for her horse and I don't see why a few options shouldn't be investigated. Don't get me wrong I am all for quality of life and believe that tough decisions have to be made but if he could be made comfortable then surely it is worth a try.
 
My old boy has arthritis which is in his backend hinds etc. He went down on his front end last year when I was riding him and he was retired etc. He trips a lot as well. I started him on bute and he is now on 1 sachet a day and he is eating etc whinnys etc and now seems pretty happy. BUT I am keeping close eye on him as he does drag now and again and I can see the stiffness in his back end. He rarely trots around and is much slower. BUT since going onto the spring grass seems a bit happier etc. We had the odd buck but very rare!

I am under no illusion that the time is coming and am trying to think of the PTS as a relief rather than a dread. Donkeys years ago vets would have told owners "it would be kinder etc" but I dont think they seem to say this these days? Perhaps if she can make the horse comfortable and pain free etc then he can be a field ornament. However if he cant be made pain free etc then try to get her to see her horse is ILL. My vet wanted to take my horse in for more tests............ur NO.........his bank account would get bigger, my horse would not enjoy it.........being realistic he is elderly & thats his problem(simple) and I am sure some people would have had him PTS already but he is on borrowed time and is old! He cant be cured.

Wish you and your friend good luck i think gently try to get her to see is it fair for the horse to put it through stress etc etc However if pain relief works then he might have a bit longer??? But she needs to start seeing the whole picture and the different options too.
 
My boy isn't chronic. And is currently sound after the injection into the joint. And cortaflex. I'd not hesitate to bute and keep going so long as hr is enjoying life.
 
Thank you for posting all of your experiences, good to know that there can be light at the end of the tunnel :) My friend has just rung me, it's hard to tell what the vet has told her as English is not her first language & she is not very familiar with veterinary terms but from what I can tell he has holes in his bones & some bony spurs, she said something about an 'N' word so am guessing maybe navicular bone, there was a massive build up of fluid in his joints & has a thickened tendon from trying to compensate :( He is going in to have his hind legs looked at next week & the vet is pretty sure that he has arthritis there too. He also said not to give upon him as there are several treatments to try, but he would probably only last another 3 years :( She was very tearful but is determined to make his remaining time as pleasant as she can. Ugh, I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy :( As I said she has only had him 6 months, she had him vetted by a different vet & he passed with flying colours, her vet has said that if she tries to bring this original vet up on it it may effect her insurance paying out as it would be deemed a pre existing condition, so there is nothing she can do.
 
I managed my last horse on bute when he was retired with arthritis - but then the bute stopped working and I had to make the decision to PTS as he was clearly in a lot of pain and deteriorated significantly over his last few weeks. It was a horrendous time for me but such a relief to be able to end his pain. Your friend will know when the time is right.
 
Mine was diagnosed about 10 months ago and has been lame in his Honda ever since.

He's had steroid injections etc... The winter is very difficult and mine struggled coming through it.

The warmer weather is here and he's much better. He is managed on danilon, 1 per day and lives out 24/7 to keep him moving. I find stabling him causes his legs to sieze up.

He is fully retired now at the grand old age of 13 :(

He'll never come right again and we don't think he cope with another winter. So mine is spending his summer out to enjoy himself the re-assessing him around sept/oct but he'll most likely be PTS.

I'd say give it a try before PTS. There are alternatives to finding a way to get him more comfortable. Living out, removing shoes, daily painkiller and joint supplements.

As mentioned above the danilon seemed to stop working on my boy so I gave him a week off from it and now it seems to be working once again.

Your friend will know her horse, be fair but kind to him.

I gave mine a chance at recovery, probably too long in some people's eyes but he'll enjoy his time now that he's earned and I'll let him go when the colder weather arrives.

Arthritis isn't the end of the road depending on how severe it is.
 
He'll never come right again and we don't think he cope with another winter. So mine is spending his summer out to enjoy himself the re-assessing him around sept/oct but he'll most likely be PTS.

I'd say give it a try before PTS. There are alternatives to finding a way to get him more comfortable. Living out, removing shoes, daily painkiller and joint supplements.

As mentioned above the danilon seemed to stop working on my boy so I gave him a week off from it and now it seems to be working once again.

Your friend will know her horse, be fair but kind to him.

I gave mine a chance at recovery, probably too long in some people's eyes but he'll enjoy his time now that he's earned and I'll let him go when the colder weather arrives.

Arthritis isn't the end of the road depending on how severe it is.[/QUOTE]

I am doing the same at the moment(decision PTS end of summer etc) the only thing I was not expecting was the warmer weather never made it improve for my old boy.
OP when the vet has already diagnosed quite severe type joint problems I am wondering why do any more tests(my vet wanted to do the same and I said NO). Pain relief is probably the best option and hopefully she will have a more comfortable horse or companion etc. Sad for her that she has only had him a few months but as we can see on here that problems can happen anytime/any age with horses. Good luck and hope she doesnt get led along and run up a huge vet bill when already diagnosis has moreless been given.
 
Indie999 - sorry to hear that, I thought the same with mine and feared it would be sooner but he seems to have perked up and looking much better so now leaving until the end of summer. As my friend said, if he's coping and happily grazing etc then leave him until he tells you he's ready :)

Hope your ok - its a horrendous situation to be in and I know what your going through x
 
Mine is an arthritic disaster zone too. He's buted up to the eyeballs, the YM and I do weekly lameness evaluations and he's having the summer stuffing his face with grass then...we'll see. PTS at some point, obviously. He's TONS better when the ground is soft (I'm loving rain all of a sudden) as his joints don't have to do so much work when the mud does the shock absorbing for them.

Perhaps your friend could try lots of bute as a short term palliative care solution + find some turnout (with a very quiet companion) on decent soft-ish ground and see what happens?
 
milesjess said:
Indie999 - sorry to hear that, I thought the same with mine and feared it would be sooner but he seems to have perked up and looking much better so now leaving until the end of summer. As my friend said, if he's coping and happily grazing etc then leave him until he tells you he's ready :)

Hope your ok - its a horrendous situation to be in and I know what your going through x
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I think we are all in the same boat arent we? Trying to do the best mine hasnt been right for a few years now. Initially the bute which he started in new year seemed a miracle! Then suddenly he seemed to go so stiff and not happy. I thought thats it PTS but still had option of increasing bute which I did wack it to 2 sachets then he is now on 1 sachet a day. The problem was for first time ever farrier had right problems trimming(advised next time 3 sachets or even 4 for a trim)!! He seems ok most of time lately, spring grass gave him a new lease of life!!But had good chat with people on H&H forum about PTS and really helpful and supportive etc Its trying not to get sentimental..just want the best for the boy. However I have the phone numbers all ready to make the call if I go and he gets worse but hopefully I will be able to plan it and I certainly dont want to end up with a horse in agony at all, would rather he went out good!. Sorry to waffle but its a good post and hope OP has found it helpful etc. Good luck too.
 
Hi. Our 15 year old cobmare was diagnosed with arthritis in her coffin joints and pasterns in June last year. She had steroid injections into the joints and was started on bute. We carried on riding but in February she became lame again, further xrays showed that the arthritis is much worse. She is still on bute and turned out as much as possible to keep her moving. She was really lame after all the frozen hard ground and then really dry spell but as sidewaysonacob said she has been much better with all the rain and soft ground.
We know that her condition will only get worse and she can no longer be ridden. We have discussed PTS with the vet and are all aware that this will happen at some point, just a case of deciding when is the best time. I don't think she would be comfortable with another winter. We are very sad but have to do the right thing for our horse.
 
I'm in the same situation too, it really is heart breaking.

My HW cob mare who is about 18yrs old going by her teeth, is very arthritic and on 2 danilon and 2 scoops of flexijoint a day.

She lives out 24/7. We know her time is coming but at the moment she's happy and enjoys her little life, she comes out of the field everyday for her food and a fuss, and she seems quite content.
When that changes I will make the decision.

She's been retired over a year now and this time last year I thought she would have to be PTS, but we changed what she was on and she perked up a bit.

So really we could have her years or weeks I just don't know.

I'm not putting her through lots of treatments though, let's face it you can't fix athritis, only try your best to hold it off and she hates travelling and new places so I'm not gonna put her through going to horsepital.
 
I think so long as a horse lives happily in a field then a bit of arthritis is no reason to PTS so long as they are comfortable. That does not mean to say they are totally pain free, but a small amount of pain does not make life not worth living. I'm afraid I could never say give the horse the summer and then PTS. If a horse needs putting to sleep, it needs putting to sleep. If it is happy enough to enjoy itself through the summer, then it is not ready to put to sleep. I disagree that arthritis is made worse in the cold and better in the warmth. I have arthritis in my sacro illiac joint jue to an old injury. It is not different from season to season. In fact the only thing that makes it better is rest. My horse that has bone spavin is no better in the summer than in the winter either.
 
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My girl is actually worse in the summer... She doesn't like the heat at all, the flies drive her mad and she stamps her feet at them alot which doesn't help, the ground is hard and jarring.

She is much happier in the winter, the ground is soft and she doesn't feel the cold, she's not hot and grumpy.

So people who just roll out the phrase "don't put her through another winter" are just spouting something they've heard others say.
 
I would hope that in most cases, arthritis is managable these days.

However the extent of it will determine whether you are managing pain levels for "field comfort" or managing pain levels to ride etc.

There are a lot of natural supplements out there, and bute/danilon are no longer your only option for pain management.

Boswellia serrata (frankinsence) is a natural anti-inflammatory can be fed long term without any stomach issues (devils claw and white willow both have negative impacts on the stomach, like bute). the main issue is that you have to feed it every day, and it takes upto a week to become fully effective, so bute/danilon might be needed in conjunction at the beginning, depending on how bad the lameness is.

Tumeric and Ginger, are also natural anti-inflammatories (and before anyone jumps on me, yes there are no scientific clinical trial data, but plenty of anecdotal evidence ;) ), relatively cheap to buy in bulk, and will not harm the horse even if it doesn't work.

Good luck :)
 
Often horses deteriorate but then reach a point where they stabilize, or seem to be steadily going down hill and then one day be suddenly and completely imobile, so it is near impossible to put a time frame on it. I prefer to take each day as it comes. Your boy may not deteriorate any further, who knows?
 
Wagtail said:
Often horses deteriorate but then reach a point where they stabilize, or seem to be steadily going down hill and then one day be suddenly and completely imobile, so it is near impossible to put a time frame on it. I prefer to take each day as it comes. Your boy may not deteriorate any further, who knows?
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I really hope so - but I'm one of those be prepared/Planner types who needs to plan for every possibility :)
 
Wagtail - I have my horses best interests at heart, she really suffered when the ground was frozen and it made her very lame. Now the ground is softer she is much better, she is also not happy to be stabled and her quality of life would be rubbish if she were stabled in the winter. This why I mentioned winter - not because people say 'don't put her through another winter'. She will be PTS when the time is right.

Sidewaysonacob - I am in the same situation as you and it is horrible. I have always been told that when you PTS it is better a day too early than a day too late.I am also a planner/prepared type person and have had long discussions with the vet about how she will be PTS etc.
 
Of course, everyone is different and does things their own way. My comment was intended to explain what I would do and what I couldn't do, and why. For me, PTS would have to be an immediate decision on that day because I would find it far too sad to have a horse that seemed happy walking around knowing that I was planning to have it PTS at a certain time. But that does not mean that it is the right way. It's just the right way for me and for my horses. Others cope better by planning a date. And that is up to them and what is right for them and their horses. :)

I was also just making a point that winter is not always a bad time for arthritics. They are not all the same, and IME most horses look more miserable in winter than in summer, whether they have arthritis or not, as do most people.
 
My sisters horse managed a few more years from being diagnosed and it was not really until it was a struggle for her farrier to trim her feet that it had got too bad even on bute and my sister decided to pts.
I have arthritis in my feet and I could not say it is any worse during any weather...just crap all the time! I think each horse is different and it is certainly worth stabilising the situation and seeing how things go on proper management and medicines.
 
Wagtail said:
I think so long as a horse lives happily in a field then a bit of arthritis is no reason to PTS so long as they are comfortable. That does not mean to say they are totally pain free, but a small amount of pain does not make life not worth living. I'm afraid I could never say give the horse the summer and then PTS. If a horse needs putting to sleep, it needs putting to sleep. If it is happy enough to enjoy itself through the summer, then it is not ready to put to sleep. I disagree that arthritis is made worse in the cold and better in the warmth. I have arthritis in my sacro illiac joint jue to an old injury. It is not different from season to season. In fact the only thing that makes it better is rest. My horse that has bone spavin is no better in the summer than in the winter either.
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Totally agree with you... I could never say, just pts come winter.... think how people carry on with all sorts of pain and diabilities... arthritis in my opinion is not a reason to pts, I ride my gelding with arthritis, and infact exercise is good for it... Dont write a horse off, because of arthritis.
 
My previous 13 year old mare was diagnosed with arthritus earlier in the year, it wasnt very severe so a good joint suppliment saw her through. Sadly she was then diagnosed with severe navicular disease and collateral ligament damage (she was an ex-eventer) I only had 2 options, to PTS or to try remedial shoeing, she would have to be retired plus the shoes would cost a ridiculous amount every 5 weeks. I made the decision to PTS but then my farrier offered to take her on as his own (I couldnt afford the shoeing) she is now happily retired with him. The special shoes has made such a difference.

Could this be something to suggest to the vet? there are so many different types of remedial shoeing, but the whole aim is to make the horse alot more comfortable. I'm pretty sure there is a type of remedial shoeing aimed at arthritus?
 
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