Artificial Earths. What's that all about?

[Ereiam_jh]

What's so bad about artificial earths. Surely if theirs a dearth of foxes in an area then they're a good thing.

I put up bat boxes, are artificial earths so different?

 

[severnmiles]

Well you're not trying to kill off bats are you? Or control their numbers.

The antis claim artificial earths are to promote foxes breeding for more sport for us. However if a fox wants to breed it will, regardless of whether there is an AE or it has to dig its own earth out.

 

[lucecaldicott]

they just can't get their heads round why we "help" foxes

 

[Ereiam_jh]

I am trying to control the number of bats.

I'm trying to make them greater.

 

[severnmiles]

Perhaps we should give them a dictionary with two words marked off.....

Healthy
Population

 

[lucecaldicott]

but they seem to think the bigger the better where the size of the population of nice furry mammals is concerned

 

[Clodagh]

C'mon all of you - you have to admit that saying we are controlling fox numbers sits a bit wrong with artificial earths.

We don't hunt bats so thats not comparable. AEs are all about encouraging a litter for the next hunting season.

Note - We have one on the farm, has been here for donkeys years, hasn't ever been used, they prefer the badger sett next door.

 

[severnmiles]

Why does it?

If a vixen is going to breed its going to breed, the fact it doesn't have an AE in sight doesn't affect whether it lets a dog fox jump on or not!

If providing AE's, you know where the damn things are. I used to think why the heck would you provide AE's when you're culling them before a reason was explained to me.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

I suppose I'm just exploring the issues.

Endy would say you aren't controlling fox numbers.

I'd say you may be taking out psomne problem foxes and helping get a heathier population.

In some ways, if the fox numbers get low then who's to know. Well the hunt for one and they are the most likely to do something to increase numbers again.

I want to see a healthy balanced population of wild animals. Sometimes that means increasing their numbers, like with my bats.

 

[smilincow21]

"I'd say you may be taking out psomne problem foxes and helping get a heathier population"

That is what hunting does. It gets rid of older, weaker and ill foxes which wouldn't survive winter and are more damaging to livestock. A healthy fox can easily outrun/ out smart the hounds!

 

[Boudicea]

"Foxes have to be controlled so hunting with hounds is good efficient predator control which also helps weed out the weak, old or sick. We only dig out foxes if it is requested by a local farmer. Artificial earths? No, it doesn't happen that is Anti muck-spreading"

I have kept this little gem copied and pasted by a pro-hunt member on another forum from last year.

I can spot more than two mistruths in that statement and did so when it was replied to me.

 

[severnmiles]

Ever thought that their hunt doesn't provide AE's? Not all do. Therefore he/she wouldn't know about them.

What is the other mistruth?

 

[wurzel]

So what is your point exactly?

Don't gush!

A year is a long wait !!!!!!!!

 

[Ereiam_jh]

I ahev no idea if AEs are provided by hunts. I just thought that if fox numbers get too low then they should provide them, as well as importing foxes if required.

It seems to me that if this does go on then it is an example of hunts carrying out sound conservation measures.

 

[flying_change]

Trouble is, you'd have to make a cross-ref to the work 'contradiction' and another to 'control'.

 

[flying_change]

It's good to see that you're exploring this issue.

And it's also good to see all the old contradictions coming out yet again.

 

[severnmiles]

Why?

 

[Ereiam_jh]

Rubbish controlling numbers can mean increasing them as much as reducing them. I seek to control the numbers of bats around me by using bat boxes.

 

[flying_change]

I think you're discussin your specific point and I'm discussing a general one.

 

[flying_change]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your motivation for hunting foxes is that you have a lot of sheep farming in your part of the world, and you want to keep the numbers down in order to avoid losing livestock. Is that right ?

 

[Ereiam_jh]

Ah sorry I thought I was trying to make a general poinbt about control of animal populations and you were making a specific point about AEs.

I'll conduct a thorough review of our dialogue and get back to you.

 

[Hercules]

RS,

Artificial Earths are also used to encourage foxes to live/breed in a particular area - ie away from livestock that may be prone to fox predation.

The issue is far bigger than just breeding. Take your blinkers off and you might see.

 

[severnmiles]

Numbers down aswell as maintaining a healthy population. Providing artificial earths won't neccessarily encourage a vixen to breed, if she wants to breed she will.

 

[flying_change]

"Numbers down aswell as maintaining a healthy population."

I'm sure that just about everyone who does not hunt would regard this as a contradiction.

"Providing artificial earths won't neccessarily encourage a vixen to breed, if she wants to breed she will. "

True, but a) I accept the point that the position of the AE may cause the distribution of the foxes to move. b) It doesnt take a genius to realise that an AE may cause the breeding to be more successful and cause more cubs to survive than a badly-sited natural earth.

RS

 

[severnmiles]

Why? And how is that a contradiction?

 

[Ereiam_jh]

I think that it is generally accepted that over population and allowing diseased animals to linger is bad for the population as a whole.

I think it is also generally accepted that population control can mean increasing numbers when they are too low as well as reducing them when they are too high.

Where's the contradiction again?

 

[flying_change]

Try putting it to the TV interviewer test. LOL !!

 

[Ereiam_jh]

Is that similar to the Lowest Common Denominator criterion?

 

[severnmiles]

I'm not quite with you..... :-|

 

[flying_change]

Imagine you're explaining it to Jeremy Paxman.