Asking for long and low

[Bright_Spark]

Hi everyone,

I wonder if anyone has any suggestions for encouraging a horse to carry his head lower when working. I want to stress that I am NOT looking for an outline at all, just trying to encourage my lad to stop sticking his ears up my nose. Walk is better, but trot and canter are enough to make a giraffe blush

This is his normally position (ignore my numptyness on top):

He is like it loose as well (the same without side reins, but don't have any photos to show it)

And, just to clarify, I'm aiming for something like this (he's walking here) in trot and canter:

Any suggestions/ exercises etc. gratefully received. Mini toblerones on offer

 

[harrysmum]

Well, I'll be watching with interest as have similar issues. I'll try and xplain the method I was taught and hope it makes sense!
First of all you need to be riding on the buckle; the object is to get the horse ro follow the rein and you will be moving about all over the arena at first to establish this. So, decide which way to want to turn and then open the rein on that side briefly and back to neutral- quite a definate, sharp ish move, keeping your elbow at your waist so that the "quick" movement is made by just your forearm. After a few strides, change direction and so on. Once your horse has got the idea, move onto a circle and keep asking in the same way with the inside rein so that you keep the circle Nd the horse understands to follow the rein.i was also told not to use any leg, only rein so that the horse is clear what you want. Once this is established on both reins, take your horse up to trot and continue to use just the inside rein aid as before- you may get the horse drifting to the fence at first but just persevere and he will start to find his balance. Then, when you've done this on both reins as in walk, start to take a gradual contact with the outside rein by shortening it gradually, continue to ask with the inside rein to keep the connection. Eventually you can shorten the inside rein. If it goes wrong, just go back a step and try again. It's all about activating the inside hind leg. I found it helpful to go from a smaller circle to a bigger circle the first few sessions but it all depends how quickly your horse "gets it". It worked well for my horse who was quite established in the giraffe mode beforehand! Hope all that made sense! Good luck.

 

[Pigeon]

Work in a pessoa helped mine, and he was a total giraffe! You just want to get the right muscling Is he better over trotting poles?

 

[nix123]

Personally i would invest in a pessoa (around £80-100). If you google pessoa training system you should find the information you require. Combine this with the above posters advice and im sure you will see the results you are looking for. Also you will see a more relaxed horse working through from behind in all 3 paces.

 

[Abbeygale]

My Mare was exactly the same. Working in the pessoa and steady and gradual work to build up the right muscles so that muscle memory can help your horse to work into a better shape.

If your horse is anything like mine, then don't expect miracles over night - it has been a long long journey - but she has just recently got her very first BD points

 

[JillA]

Lift up your hands. Counterintuitive I know, but raise your hands and maintain a gentle contact, and he will lower his head. Just keep the forward going so that he doesn't come behind the bit. Give it a go

 

[Dusty85]

I achieved long and low stretching with my horse who also liked to put his ears up nose when I first got him, but in the reverse way.

What I mean by this was with gradual and constant work we began to improve his muscle and way of going, Nd by developing a consistent soft contact whilst working. Whilst working in an outline (his balance improved) Nd that allowed me to encourage him to take the rein and stretch down at frequent intervals whilst working, and rewarding him verbally when he took the rein. I gradually let it out, in walk first but then progressed to trot and finally canter, building up the time spent stretching.

I also used a Pessoa but only once weekly or so, so it may have helped but not especially.

 

[xgemmax]

Another one for pessoa work! I got mine on ebay for £35 (not a real on but the same thing) it really helps them built up muscle over their back so they are more comfortable and balanced to lover their head and realax to work forwards

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

lessons!

there is far far too much to explain on here.

i really dont like pessoas as think they sock the horse in the gob worse and worse the more active the trot gets.

you also need to think of long and low as an exercise not as an end in its self-you take the horse longer and lower to help warm up the muscles he needs to come up in to a competition outline in self carrige, you dont want him trundling round with his nose on the floor for ever more.

 

[be positive]

lessons!

there is far far too much to explain on here.

i really dont like pessoas as think they sock the horse in the gob worse and worse the more active the trot gets.

you also need to think of long and low as an exercise not as an end in its self-you take the horse longer and lower to help warm up the muscles he needs to come up in to a competition outline in self carrige, you dont want him trundling round with his nose on the floor for ever more.

This
Using a pessoa will not teach you how to get the horse to stretch and lift its back, learn how to do it as a rider then it is a tool to use as and when you want, very useful on fizzy types to get them relaxing.

 

[Goldenstar]

lessons!

there is far far too much to explain on here.

i really dont like pessoas as think they sock the horse in the gob worse and worse the more active the trot gets.

you also need to think of long and low as an exercise not as an end in its self-you take the horse longer and lower to help warm up the muscles he needs to come up in to a competition outline in self carrige, you dont want him trundling round with his nose on the floor for ever more.

Agree with this , you need to trained how to this.
I dislike pessoas intensely I can always tell when I try a horse if it's been " pessoaed ".

 

[nix123]

How can you tell Goldenstar??
If a pessoa is used correctly and only as part of your riding regime then you couldn't possibly tell.

 

[Polos Mum]

Totally agree with lessons but in the interim my big horse responds well to very still / stable hands with a contact he can sort of reach for then lots of leg to encourage him to take a longer stride behind, he then lifts his stomach muscles up into his back and starts to stretch. To start with I played with the bit in his mouth (very different to sawing on it!) to encourage him to reach for it.
I lunge with no gadgets at all and find if I snake the lunge line a little it encourages him to stretch.

Little and often , he'll need to build totally new muscles to do this. Mine now lunges with his nose on the floor and enjoys a back stretch as a result.

 

[Goldenstar]

They block in the neck in a particular way in time with the hind leg coming forward .
I have ridden a lot of horses in the past who where in pessoas a lot so I am well attuned to it.

 

[daffy44]

Agree with Princess Sparkle and Goldenstar, lessons are whats needed, but i think lunging in the mean time to help the horse start to build the correct muscles would be very helpful. However, i also hate the Pessoa, the name is a good clue, it was designed by a showjumper, for showjumpers, and its great for that, as it encourages the horse to go behind the contact as showjumpers often like that. The more the horse moves, the more it gets caught in the mouth, so it learns to avoid the contact. Personally, if i want to build the correct muscles through lunging i would use vienna reins.

 

[Boysy]

Bizarre theory but draw reins have helped my lad reach down and stretch into the contact then work long and low, never thought it would work but oddly it has and the difference in his neck and back muscles is quite marked as is his way of carrying himself now he is using his hind end properly.

 

[TarrSteps]

They block in the neck in a particular way in time with the hind leg coming forward .
I have ridden a lot of horses in the past who where in pessoas a lot so I am well attuned to it.

Agreed. I'm sure there are horses that have been ridden well and have also worked in a Pessoa who feel perfectly fine (the Pessoa being, in effect, unnecessary) but if that's not the case they do have a particular feel, in the same way that horses ridden badly in draw reins tend to have a specific feel and set of responses.

I'm another who is going to say someone good on the ground and even someone to get on and show the horse what is wanted so you can get on and register the desired feel. Manhandling the horse down is going to end up wrong, no matter how you do it, but, on the other hand, you need to be consistent and persistent with the right work.

Re Pessoa longeing aids, to get off track. . .does no one else worry about strain on the other parts of the horse? I understand that it works well for muscle development, at least on an obvious level (see above comment re the feel . . ) but there is a lot of leverage and force at work. Is that not a concern for other, delicate structures, especially ones that might not show stress immediately. . . .?

 

[Pinkvboots]

He looks like his not coming through from behind enough in both pictures on the lunge, if you look at his hip he has a huge muscle mass here, and over muscled ham strings look down the back of his hind legs, this kind of muscle is found when the horse is not working correctly, in other words his hollowing and not using his back end, I would get his saddle checked in my experience its caused by a too tight saddle blocking the front end.

I also agree the pessoa does sock the horse in the mouth, get a bungee rein and put it between his front legs for lunging and get him tracking up behind he cant soften in front if his not using his back end but please get the saddle checked.

 

[daffy44]

Yes Tarrsteps, i agree about the pessoa, too many levers, not something i would ever use.

 

[AusRider]

The best suggestions given here are from those who have said to take lessons. Getting a horse long and low cannot be be accomplished through 'suggestions' - it is a process of working on rhythm/tempo, balance, suppleness and contact.

Take some regular flatwork/dressage lessons, and some correct work on behalf of the horse and rider will eventually get you to long and low.

 

[Moomin1]

lessons!

there is far far too much to explain on here.

i really dont like pessoas as think they sock the horse in the gob worse and worse the more active the trot gets.

you also need to think of long and low as an exercise not as an end in its self-you take the horse longer and lower to help warm up the muscles he needs to come up in to a competition outline in self carrige, you dont want him trundling round with his nose on the floor for ever more.

THIS one billion percent!

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

awww its nice to start the day with some moomin/PS love lol!

 

[Bright_Spark]

Thank you everyone for your advice

I realise that this will not happen overnight, and do understand this. My concern is that his current self-carriage is causing problems with his muscle development- his topline is pretty poor and his bum certainly needs working on, hence the post. His previous saddle was a bit tight, but the one I am now using is slightly too wide but well padded out (as suggested by my saddler).

It looks like lessons are the way forward TBF it would probably do us both the world of good to have some

Thanks for the pessoa suggestions, but I admit I am not keen on them myself. I did wonder if side reins inbetween his legs attached to a roller would be a better way to ask him to work (and start on that topline)

harrysmum, I will try your suggestion too, it sounds good.

Pigeon- we haven't quite mastered trotting over poles yet, they need to be jumped over at great heights, so I cant really comment on that

JillA - another suggestion to try, thank you.

Thanks again for all of the replies, they are all appreciated

 

[Goldenstar]

Have a look at the lunging rope on the horse heros website ( you can make one easily ) walking over poles with one of these on is my start with high head carriages

 

[EmmaB]

This is similar to how my horse goes, he had the pysio out yesterday and to build up top line and bum muscle she told me to do work over poles and raised poles, and lots of walking up hills, including stopping and starting to make him work harder.

His saddle is away being reflocked so I longreined over raised poles last night and long reined through the forest walking up steep hills for an hour today! It really got him to work and his head came down loads. So you can do stuff from the ground too, and the key is to keep them forward!

 

[GlamourDol]

We use this for lunging. http://www.perfectpiaffe.co.uk/kava...-includes-the-real-sheepskin-cover-5992-p.asp

It doesnt restrict at all, as they move longer the "buckle" moves forward and vice versa. Nothing is banging on their hind legs and they are free to soften.

 

[Moomin1]

awww its nice to start the day with some moomin/PS love lol!

Haha, isn't it just?!