Assisted DIY vs FULL Livery WWYD

[Austen123]

Hi all,

if you read my previous post you would of seen that i had a couple of issues in regards to rugging responsibilities on full livery. This week i am away with work for 2 days and worried that he is being incorrectly rugged etc.

work wise - worse case scenario, i am away 3 -4 days fully a month . when im not away, i will always be up one end of the day to ride so will be able to turnout.bring in whichever it is.

yard 1
full livery (no riding - riding is extra (£25 a time))
520pcm includes bedding and hay (no hard feed)
floodlight outdoor arena
good hacking
really good turnout. out 24/7 summer and day time in winter. massive fields in small herds (3 per field)
i am not allowed any instructor onsite - have to use YO who is a qualified instructor however DR is her speciality, not SJ . this means i have to travel (fuel, arena hire, lesson cost) for SJ lessons
yard is 8/10mins away


yard 2
assisted DIY
menu choice by freelancer for bring in/turn out muck out
£165 pcm
£5 for muck out. £2.50 for turnout/bring in . riding cost depends on what you want done.
£3 per hay bale/ 7.75 for shavings. Working it out roughly, i think it will be an extra £50 pcm for bedding/hay in winter .
good arena with jumps with flood lights
good hacking
INDIVIDUAL turnout, out 24/7 in summer and out in daytime in winter. YO said they sometimes have to stay in for a few days if it gets really really wet. last year i think they were in for 7 days in total.
paddocks arent big, most section and graze/rest the other part. can feed hay in field
10-15 mins away


My OH says do whatever makes you happy. which is great! but i need horsey point of view please!!!

 

[SpringArising]

Neither sound ideal for you, but I wouldn't go anywhere with individual turnout, so Yard 1.

 

[Antw23uk]

Mah!! What else you got? Both sound a bit naff!

 

[Austen123]

ha! tell me about it!

 

[Austen123]

with the others around the area, i would be compromising on less winter turnout (in for a lot of the time) or a small school which isnt very well maintained.

 

[Summit]

Yard 2 for me, I like individual TO

 

[flying_high]

Personally I’d go for yard 1, and box out for SJ lessons. Assume you’d only have 1-2 jumping lessons max a month. And some instructors are cheaper if you box to their base.

You mention rugging issues on full livery currently. Which of the two yards you mention do you think would provide the quality of care and rugging that you are looking for?

I think it is often the little but vital things when as an owner you are away that really matter, the noticing horse is sweating / shivering / has small cut etc.

Which yard will provide the quality of care?

Around here, yards with large fields, good drainage all winter, small groups, and a good school, good hacking are rare, so if 1 is all those things with good quality care, I think be good option.

Only you know if your horse better in small group or individual turnout. I don’t like individual turn out.

 

[SpringArising]

Yard 2 for me, I like individual TO

And what about your horse?

 

[Summit]

Has to work for the owner too....

And what about your horse?

 

[SpringArising]

Has to work for the owner too....

How does your horse having company affect you negatively?

 

[Summit]

this isn't about me, I'm just stating my preference. Why does it bother you? And why do you assume it's negative? You mentioned that you wouldn't go anywhere with individual TO - I haven't questioned your reply.....

 

[webble]

Yard 2 for me. My yard is technically individual turnout but after I had been there a month and got to know people I found someone to share with and when they moved off the new person that moved on wanted to share too so its worked well. Maybe ask if there are people that do that if individual worries you

 

[SpringArising]

Why does it bother you?

Actively choosing to keep any animal who relies on the company of others of its own kind for mental wellbeing, stimulation, and security for your own convenience is cruel - that's why it bothers me.

The negatives of keeping a horse in solitary confinement are pretty well documented by now.

 

[Summit]

Actively choosing to keep any animal who relies on the company of others of its own kind for mental wellbeing, stimulation, and security for your own convenience is cruel - that's why it bothers me.

The negatives of keeping a horse in solitary confinement are pretty well documented by now.

who said their individual TO was solitary confinement? Certainly isn't in my case but that's not a subject for discussion under this thread. Create a new post if you want to....

 

[flying_high]

How does your horse having company affect you negatively?

Whilst my horses ARE in group turnout.

It isn't appropriate for all horses. If your horse has been kicked / bitten / makes trouble in a group, sometimes for some people and horses, individual is better.

If you own multiple horses it is easier to provide a tricky horse group turnout, if you only own one trouble maker it is hard!

 

[SpringArising]

Whilst my horses ARE in group turnout.

It isn't appropriate for all horses. If your horse has been kicked / bitten / makes trouble in a group, sometimes for some people and horses, individual is better.

I understand that, but I'm not talking about the VERY small percentage of horses who are genuinely unable to be turned out with others (I don't think a horse being bitten is good reason to keep it alone, either...)

 

[SpringArising]

You mentioned that you wouldn't go anywhere with individual TO - I haven't questioned your reply.....

That's because I was able to explain why keeping a horse alone is detrimental, given that they are highly social herd animals.

 

[flying_high]

I understand that, but I'm not talking about the VERY small percentage of horses who are genuinely unable to be turned out with others (I don't think a horse being bitten is good reason to keep it alone, either...)

IMO it isn't particularly small percentage. Any horse that repeatedly kicks others, damages rugs signifcantly / bite to remove hair repeatedly should NOT be in a group livery herd situation.

The number of badly socialised horses on livery, is not that small.

 

[SpringArising]

IMO it isn't particularly small percentage. Any horse that repeatedly kicks others, damages rugs signifcantly / bite to remove hair repeatedly should NOT be in a group livery herd situation.

The number of badly socialised horses on livery, is not that small.

The thing is (and I think you might have missed my point), there's a difference between taking the necessary steps to keep horses safe (within reason, horses are horses), and actively LIKING individual turnout. Given the vast amount of info out there around how living alone is detrimental in more ways than one, I find it strange that one would 'like' it.

 

[Summit]

The thing is (and I think you might have missed my point), there's a difference between taking the necessary steps to keep horses safe (within reason, horses are horses), and actively LIKING individual turnout. Given the vast amount of info out there around how living alone is detrimental in more ways than one, I find it strange that one would 'like' it.

perhaps you've never had to call the vet for a kick injury or had to deal with a bully horse at the field gate..... because the horse is just being a horse! So yes, I "like" individual turnout.

 

[LaurenBay]

I loved individual turnout, Mare was equally happy. I spent years on group turnout. There was no difference in her behaviour at all.

I think it very much depends on the Horse, some will hate it, others will like it. If I found a yard in the future which suited me and the Horse and only offered individual turnout I would not hesitate to go there.

 

[irishdraft]

Just because they are individually turned out doesn't mean solitary confinement. I have 2 individually turned out they are next to each other & chat & groom over the fence. If i put one of these in with others she will actively chase them into a corner & double barrell the other horse. I have 2 others in together so it's horses for courses. Sorry no help with your dilemma op but I would go for the full livery .

 

[Sussexbythesea]

And what about your horse?

The horses on our yard are on individual turn-out in good sized paddocks and they all seem pretty happy I’ve been there 8 years and my horse is a lot happier here than in his last group turn-out and they all seem settled as long as they can see the other horses and we don’t leave a horse out in its own. He now has my new horse as a field buddy which is obviously better. Is it ideal? Maybe not but when you’re on a livery yard nothing is ideal. The number of field injuries (bone chip from kick), trying to get your horse out of a field of frantic horses in winter without dying, rows over poo-picking, etc. Etc. NO THANKS.

 

[LaurenBay]

The number of field injuries (bone chip from kick), trying to get your horse out of a field of frantic horses in winter without dying, rows over poo-picking, etc. Etc. NO THANKS.

This is exactly why I loved individual turnout. I also had the added hassle that if hay was needed in the field it had to be soaked for dust allergy and she couldn't have haylege. Nightmare in group turnout as I had to soak every hay pile to ensure she didn't eat dry hay!

 

[SpringArising]

perhaps you've never had to call the vet for a kick injury or had to deal with a bully horse at the field gate..... because the horse is just being a horse! So yes, I "like" individual turnout.

I've had a horse lose an eye through being kicked in the field. That doesn't mean I'm going to start keeping all of my horses alone forever, because I know from the various research that's been done, that that would be detrimental to them. There is way more to keeping a horse than them being just physically sound.

When we ride we take the risk that we could be hurt, and if we are, it's generally for a short period of time compared to the endless hours of fun with have with our horses. I would liken that to herd turnout.

 

[Bermuda]

I would chose yard 1 because I prefer group turnout in big fields for my horse but everyone is different.

 

[ester]

My main question, given your situation is whether there is cover when the freelancer goes on holiday.
I've also known similar set ups where the freelancer has left and been very difficult to replace.

 

[chaps89]

As an assumption:
Yard 2 - shavings, 5 bags per month = £38.75. Hay 12 bales per month = £36
Daily bring in or turnout (1 end of each day) = £76. 5 muck outs per month = £25. Total: £340.75.
So a fair amount cheaper than yard 1 and gives you more flexibility and no having expense/hassle of boxing out to lessons. 10-15 minutes isn't far, especially if only going up once a day. However is there cover if freelancer is off (unwell at short notice or on holiday which you may at least be able to plan for)?
Individual turnout would probably be a sticking point for me in fairness so I'd probably at least ask if there was anyone I could pair up with. That would be the only thing putting me off yard 2 tbh.
I guess it also depends on your finances, how much of a stretch the extra money for yard 1 may or may not be. And also gut feel, did the people seem nice at both/was it a nice atmosphere/did you get a good feeling from it?
As LeoWalker said to me on a recent thread, if you rang them up and they said they were full with a 10 year waiting list, which would you be most disappointed by?

 

[pixie27]

I'd go for yard one.

I'd never put a horse on individual turnout again - my TB hated it. Was surrounded by other horses (could sniff/groom/eat under fence with at least three horses, sometimes four) but turned into a fence walking, highly strung nervous wreck. He hated being in the field, would kick off if saw anyone - even people turning out after me. Moved him to group t/o and he changed mellowed out completely, would happily stay out on the other side of a huge field til 5/6 at night.

I used to rely on a freelance groom but it always got overly stressful when she went away/got ill/had other customers to prioritise, so if you go with yard 2, check that there's enough choice of grooms so you aren't left stranded. Likewise make sure the groom fits in with the yard - I had one groom who could only turn out before any other horse was out and bring in after everyone else did (so never worked out).