Asymmetric shoulders & Saddle fitting

[equidstar11]

Hi, my young Warmblood has asymmetric shoulders, that the vets & I believe stem from habitual grazing and handedness (with matched high/low feet which have already improved significantly over the past few months with 2 weekly trims by a knowledgable trimmer).

As such I’ve only ridden him lightly out hacking a small number of times in a symmetrical saddle with a shimmed pad.
I have decided to take it back to long-lining over poles in straight lines, in hand work etc but he’s a strong character, super intelligent and very busy. Unfortunately long-lining/leading out on the road is a no go. However when ridden hacked he is super relaxed, has a lovely strut and is long, low and forward. I have a lot more access to straight line hacking if ridden, than I am able to do in hand in the arena (20x40).

Therefore I don’t want to stick to doing groundwork in the arena for a long period or he will get bored/sour.

Of course, I expect to be doing it for the next month or so but going forward I would like to mix between the two, and I would like some opinions on whether sticking with a symmetrically wool flocked (adjustable gullet tree correct shape) saddle with a shim pad (currently using Winderen 6 pocket pad with felt shims) is OK long term (with the shims checked often), or whether the saddle should be flocked asymmetrically and regularly adjusted, or even if we should be going down the route of something like a WOW saddle with flair which is adjusted regularly?

(Of course, a saddle fitter will be consulted, but one person’s opinion is not always correct, I would just like more views/experiences on this subject)

Thanks

 

[ihatework]

I’d go fractionally wide and shim/pad to balance

 

[Noble]

As above, my saddle fitter prefers shims. If the saddle is flocked asymmetrically the leather will stretch on one side and you can't reverse this if your horse straightens up with correct work.

 

[SEL]

My WOW saddle on a wonky pony has been a game changer. She has a huge amount going on in her body, most of which is skeletal and I didn't think was particularly responsive to rehab. She could have retired but she was bored and loves hacking. I really struggled to find a saddle she liked despite some experienced fitters (Solutions, AH) so impulse bought a pony sized WOW on facebook.

Even though it was obviously out of balance when I tried it on her she was instantly happier. I ended up buying special panels (extra short!) but the first time it was fitted we had very asymmetrical air to deal with her wonky shoulders, but by the last fitting it was just down to a small amount. I have done nothing but hack her but even her feet are wearing more evenly now.

I know not every horse / rider likes the air flocking but it has really worked for mine.

 

[sbloom]

I don't personally flock asymmetrically and would shim, but it's not about the saddle being fitted wider, often as not, it's about the space either side of the wither, the "head" of the saddle, and the ability to lift the front or back with the right kind of pad/ For me that pad needs to have thin, trimmable shims so that you can get the contact right.

For groundwork, if he's crooked (which when one shoulder is significantly different, usually actually higher or lower, than the other is going to be the case) then I wouldn't rely on long lining and poles unless you are very experienced and know what to watch for. A course like the new one from Annie Dillon Horsemanship, Amy Skinner Horsemanship, Encompass Equine Solutions or similar will get to the heart of it and help you with your eye so you know whether or not an exercise is working/appropriate or if it's wrong/too soon.

 

[equidstar11]

I don't personally flock asymmetrically and would shim, but it's not about the saddle being fitted wider, often as not, it's about the space either side of the wither, the "head" of the saddle, and the ability to lift the front or back with the right kind of pad/ For me that pad needs to have thin, trimmable shims so that you can get the contact right.

For groundwork, if he's crooked (which when one shoulder is significantly different, usually actually higher or lower, than the other is going to be the case) then I wouldn't rely on long lining and poles unless you are very experienced and know what to watch for. A course like the new one from Annie Dillon Horsemanship, Amy Skinner Horsemanship, Encompass Equine Solutions or similar will get to the heart of it and help you with your eye so you know whether or not an exercise is working/appropriate or if it's wrong/too soon.

Thanks sbloom. My issue with these courses is just the sheer expense for only online material - and I know investing in my horse is worth it, I would just prefer to work with someone personally to help/check progress ideally, if I were to pay that kind of money. Unfortunately I don’t really know of many in the UK (especially South Wales!)
Perhaps there is someone remote who can give me homework / more personal assistance with check ins. I shall have to do more research.

I have got the book 55 corrective exercises by Jac Ballou, and have pulled a good few out of there specifically for wonkiness (straddling pole, snaking over poles, sideways over a hill, serpentines over a ditch, backing up, raised poles etc etc) which I will be implementing more frequently.

Interestingly he’s been seen by a vet physio, and a chiropractor, and neither of them made any mention of his asymmetry (which to be honest is quite significant), and this is why I am growing ever more wary of so called professionals and instead prefer to work with those who are passionate around the subject. It’s just difficult to find such people.

I changed from a farrier to a very passionate barefoot trimmer and the change has been phenomenal.

This is why I don’t necessarily trust my saddle fitter either (and am asking the question), as many are old fashioned and say asymmetry is normal - perhaps true but not to this extent!

 

[sbloom]

Can your trimmer recommend anyone? Often the most holistic and progressive within their own profession/modality has the best contacts, and potentially the best "take" on what's going on with the horse.

The best courses allow you to post videos to check you're on track, to get LOTS of feedback. Hayley Howells may or may not be near you (she's in Wales), she does this sort of work but I don't know her or her work personally. I can't think of anyone specifically in your direction (Dan Wain is further across, CV35 9HJ and does travel) and that's the challenge, many of my customers are in an online programme and find it incredibly useful.

If you find me on FB, and find my page, I share posts from all sorts of specialists, and I DO recommend that you take your time, look at their free content and SM posts to work out who you feel is aligned with you, you'll need to like them to commit to the work!

Asymmetry is normal but we should always be trying to minimise it, and if it's the cause of saddle slip and is showing compensatory movement patterns then it's best to address it as you are. I agree that it's not addressed by a lot of professionals and yet it's the start in so many cases of long term unsoundness.

 

[HelenBack]

I'm another who would go for a Wow saddle. I've got asymmetrical air in mine and it can be adjusted by tiny amounts as the horse changes shape. For this horse his way of going changed instantly when he went into the Wow, and that was with or without the asymmetrical air.

I'm in South Wales too and also don't really trust many professionals and haven't had great experiences with a lot of the saddlers in the area either (which is one of the reasons why I first went for a Wow). I really rate the Wow saddler who covers the area, she's got a lot of experience now and will spend ages trying to get things right for you / won't sell you a saddle if she doesn't think it will fit. She's also good for telling you what parts you need if you want to look for second hand and sometimes has bits of secondhand stock herself as they are obviously a lot of money new.

Her details will be on the Wow website but you can PM me too if you like.

 

[sbloom]

Just found this on FB https://www.facebook.com/equusuniversalistrainingschool, know nothing about it.