at a loss. stress induced laminitis?

_daisy_

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im really at a loss with my mums pony. - bit of background.

pony is 14.1hh 11yo and is a chronic laminitic sufferer. we didnt realise how bad she is when we bought her (not that it matters to us tbh) she seriously damaged her NF when she ripped in open exposing all the bone work in her foot. Shes had numerous problems with her front feet and shoes so is now barefoot and its working well for her.

I fetched all my horses up to the stables when the first lot of ground work prep was completed for my arena about 2 weeks ago. They now live on a large hardcored area with 2 bales of haylage, they have no access to grass. They have plenty of ground to mooch/run around in.
I have not changed their feed or haylage - the haylage is grown on my own land where they stay 24/7/365.
i have to have this under control asap for not only the obvious reasons but the arena starts to be built in 2 weeks time which mean my horses will be moved into a field with grass and no access to stables in so need to take special care of this little girl.

Now she used to have thin soles but this isnt the case anymore. however she has become pottery in the last day on the hardcore - she has got some thrush and her frogs are shedding - ive cleaned her feet and treated them with peroxide. She is now in the stable for a little while.

anyone got any ideas? anyone think it could be stress induced? or just really sore feet?
 

_daisy_

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Yes, you have understood correctly. Shes been like this for a few years on and off and never had a problem with her.
must add:
my dentist came out to see her - he said she had 2 identical ulcers just an inch or so from the corners of her mouth - cant understand how she wouldve got these, he thought they were due to excess pulling with a bit in her mouth? she hasnt been ridden since July last year - no reason from her side just rider lol

wierd? im wondering if something external is having an influence on her? maybe someone feeding her?
 

_HP_

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I would be wary of the haylage tbh and if this is all she is fed I would imagine that this is what has made her footy.
 

_daisy_

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_HP_ i would normally agree but shes lived on adlib haylage since we bought her some 5 years ago now and previous to this she had been kept on haylage. the haylage shes on now is off the same field that last years was grown on, no difference in the field eg fertilizing etc and never had any issues with laminits last year

feeb wise they all get a token feed of handfull of alfalfa, feemark benefit advance and garlic
 

_HP_

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[ QUOTE ]
Erm are you really keeping a chronic laminitis sufferer on hardcore (with no shoes) with adlib halylage 24/7?? Or have I misunderstood?!

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't have a problem with this as such but would remove her if she is footy ultil she is not and you get to the cause.

Can you remove her and feed her soaked hay instead...generally, haylage is too rich for laminitics.
Have you had in alalysed? Do you know how much sugar it contains?
 

_daisy_

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shes in a stable with a decent bed and rubber mats.
she can be removed but gets seperation anxiety if on her own but she woulod have to go on a grass paddock which could make it worse?
yes not a problem to soak the haylage (its very dry stuff anyway- verging on hay) but havent had it analysed. I dont know if there is anywhere local to have it tested. do you know of anywhere?
 

china

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prob just the hardcore, see how she is on a deep bed in the stable, although she has been on haylage for a long time i would still be wary, even though its from the same field, to me 2009 years haylage is much nicer because of the weather, the 2008 batch wasnt as good as it did nothing but rain the whole time.
 

_HP_

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If that she has always suffered from laminitis have you discovered the cause of it?
Have you had her tested for cushings? as unexplained laminitis could be an indication of this.
Could she have been pratting about on the hardcore and bruised her soles?
 

_daisy_

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unfortunately although we got a bumper crop as in numbers the crop wasnt that good as we got too much rain and was cut rather late.
hoping shes feeling much better tomorrow morning when i go to see her
 

china

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[ QUOTE ]
If that she has always suffered from laminitis have you discovered the cause of it?
Have you had her tested for cushings? as unexplained laminitis could be an indication of this.
Could she have been pratting about on the hardcore and bruised her soles?

[/ QUOTE ]
ditto the cushings, we have a horse with cushings induced lami!
 

_HP_

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[ QUOTE ]
shes in a stable with a decent bed and rubber mats.
she can be removed but gets seperation anxiety if on her own but she woulod have to go on a grass paddock which could make it worse?
yes not a problem to soak the haylage (its very dry stuff anyway- verging on hay) but havent had it analysed. I dont know if there is anywhere local to have it tested. do you know of anywhere?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure Dodson&Horrell do it
 

spike123

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definitely wouldn't give her haylage.It is far richer than hay and if your horse has a predisposition to laminitis then she really shouldn't have it. Also hardcore will place more stress on their feet than being on flat hard ground so the increased pressure to her feet is probably what is causing the stress induced laminitis. I would get her in asap on a shavings bed and off of the hardcore surface which is far from ideal. If you do have to turn her out in a field with plenty of grass then put a grazing muzzle on for half the day and pen off a small area with the least amount of grass in it for her or if you can put another horse who needs the grass on it first to graze it down before the laminitic goes out there that would be the best option.
 

_daisy_

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we have never had her tested for cushings but its definitely something ill speak to the vets about, but could she have it at her age? never had any dealings with cushings so know very little about it.

her diet was appaling before we got her - the YO had decided what she should be fed and this was haylage, straw and bran. no supplements and only 1hr solitary turnout max per day - this has a lot to do with why she now has seperation anxiety


she doesnt prat about - its too much like hard work lol, however the big bird who is boss couldve made her run abo0ut chasing her off the haylage etc - either that or shes touched the electric fencing which i have just put onto mains from battery.
 

mrdarcy

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Dengie do a hay/haylage analysis too.

It sounds to me like there's something else going on. She was managing okay with the haylage before but suddenly has become footy. Has she been vaccinated or wormed in the last few days? Or possibly you've just come across an extra rich bale? Or there could be some underlying infection that has compromised her liver, meaning it is less efficient at removing toxins from the blood stream. Cushings is a possibility too.

For the short term I'd try and get her onto soaked hay, just until the footiness abates. Hopefully your vigilance has caught it before it becomes a full blown attack. Well done for what you've done for this pony so far - you sound like a brilliant owner
 

_daisy_

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cheers G_G that means a lot to me


ill do some research into the haylage analysis and see if there are some other companies that may be local for it but ill contact Dengie as well.
no vaccinations or worming within the last week _ vaccination not due till May and was wormed 10/01/10
yeah the haylage can vary from bale to bale, but tobh not thought about this as shes done so well for the last god knows how many years on it.

hopefully can start soaking tomorrow (fingers crossed we dont get the -7degrees they threatened us with tonight) Hoping she isnt starting with an attack and is just footsore but at least shes in much to her unhappiness. It might be that she has to have her own paddock at the side of mine in the winter whilst my other 4 stay on the hardcore - think ill sort her a paddock out in the morning, unfortunately plenty of mud, but itll be soft on her feet and ready for when she can go out for a stretch of her legs etc.
 

mrdarcy

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I wouldn't blame the hardcore for making her footsore. A healthy horse that has been barefoot for more than a few months should not suddenly become footy on hard/rocky surfaces. The footsoreness has almost certainly come from a lami attack or is LGL (low grade laminitis), brought on by an at the moment unknown cause. The thrush and shedding of frogs is another sign of this. If she was mine I would give her liver a good flush out using something like Ron Field's Remount (http://www.ronfieldsnutrition.co.uk/horsesremount1.htm), which will help her liver if it's been compromised in some way. And I'd also help her gut to get back in balance by giving her a prebiotic supplement like Protexin.

Your small paddock idea sounds good but just watch if there is any grass as frozen grass is a big no no for lami prone horses and she'll be just as uncomfortable on frozen rutted ground as on the hardcore. Could you not fence off a small section of your hardcore area and put down rubber mats or a thick covering of straw?

She's a lucky pony to have you - I hope she feels better soon.
 

cptrayes

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[ QUOTE ]
prob just the hardcore, see how she is on a deep bed in the stable, although she has been on haylage for a long time i would still be wary, even though its from the same field, to me 2009 years haylage is much nicer because of the weather, the 2008 batch wasnt as good as it did nothing but rain the whole time.

[/ QUOTE ]


Clearly it's no the hardcore, since nothing has changed in that respect.

For the poeple who keep saying that haylage is no good for laminitics it is often BETTER for controlled laminitics than hay because the sugars in it have been partly fermented into alcohol. Hay can be soaked more easily to remove the sugar, but haylage is NOT automatically bad. My own laminitic was chronic if given a blade of grass and lived well on ad lib haylage.
 

Persephone

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I can vouch for that CPT. My mare was also kept on adlib haylage after a severe laminitis attack.

Incidentally OP she was diagnosed with Cushings at 6 years old. It's worth testing.
 

china

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QR,
"They now live on a large hardcored area with 2 bales of haylage, they have no access to grass."
that to me suggests a change. that they have only just started living on the hardcore.
 
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