At my wits end - farrier issues

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sjdress

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Can anybody make any recommendations for a horse which really dislikes the farrier and being shod.
I have had said horse for 5 years and in that time she has always had to be sedated to be shod. I started using oral sedation but this no longer works so it's a vet job each time and I really don't know what to do.
She is genuinely nervous... Whenever any farrier enters the yard she will go to the back of the stable and shake and snort.
When being shod she does not kick or rear, she just panics and lady's to run, pushing through me.
She is excellent to pick feet out and do studs so no idea where to go from here.
We have tried all approaches, nicely nicely and more firm to telling her off but this does not work. Help as it's costing me a fortune!
 
I have had her barefoot behind before (is slightly better with fronts being done) however we do a lot of hacking on the ridgeway for fittening work and I found her hooves either wore down or she would be quite footy and very slow on stoney ground. Hence putting them back on. Worth a thought though
 
I had a livery (cob) with very short cannon bones who found it really uncomfortable to lift and hold his feet above a certain height. How sympathetic to any pain/discomfort issues is your farrier? Is it a men thing (some horses' only experience of men has been vets, farriers and when they are being broken - literally)? IS there a female farrier or even trimmer (to start with) in your area?
Sounds as though something has to change if there is no improvement after all this time.
 
Is she hot or cold shod? Is she reacting to the smell of the smoke on the farrier?
Can you try boots or glue on shoes?
Kx
 
Her feet should not wear down if she is barefoot if you build the workload up slowly and have her on the correct diet (low sugar and starch, high fibre) what is she being fed? It's actually the opposite in that the more work the feet do, the quicker they grow! That is if she is comfortable, that is why you build up slowly :)
 
Provided it's not a pain or discomfort issue, it is certainly possible to work with and improve the horse's behaviour. I'd advise using the services of someone who knows how to design and implement a systematic desensitisation and counter conditioning programme though (and that's not the "desensitisation" that you'll have offered by e.g. a natural horsemanship person, it's much closer to the human equivalent of psychological therapies offered to people with phobias and panic attacks).

However, it is worth ruling out pain and discomfort first, since you can't actually make a horse tolerate something that causes enough discomfort to evoke a fear response - it's like offering you therapy to deal with the pain of dental work without a local anaesthetic. Separately, if the horse does find shoeing uncomfortable, the hooves could probably do with improvement, since, rather ironically, good quality hooves tend to be the ones that cope best with shoeing!

Pulling shoes, getting a trim, examining diet very carefully for anything that causes sensitivities, and using hoof boots for riding over more challenging surfaces might be a good first step. Since you say the horse wasn't too bad when hinds were being trimmed rather than shod, that does indeed suggest there's an element of discomfort, if not pain, involved with shoeing, so you may well find that many of the issues disappear when it's simply a trim. Worth investigating anyway!

Message me with your general area if you want the details of some qualified behaviourists who will work with vet and/or farrier to improve the foot handling/shoeing issues, but a change of management is usually the best first step, and in this case it would be trimming rather than shoeing.
 
Get her on a good barefoot diet, then take the shoes off, and use hoof boots for a while until the hooves strengthen. Hooves will not wear down, once unshod, the hoof capsule will grow much faster, to keep up with the amount of wear they are getting.
 
I have to say that after five years of that kind of behaviour, I would not feel comfortable putting shoes on my horse, she obviously finds it incredibly traumatic. I hear what you are saying about wearing hooves barefoot, however this simply means you need to adjust your expectations of workload for a while, while her hooves adjust and perhaps invest in a set of hoof boots. From the sounds of her reaction I'm sorry but I would not keep traumatising her for something that simply isn't needed.
 
xgemmax said:
Her feet should not wear down if she is barefoot if you build the workload up slowly and have her on the correct diet (low sugar and starch, high fibre) what is she being fed? It's actually the opposite in that the more work the feet do, the quicker they grow! That is if she is comfortable, that is why you build up slowly :)
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She is on a fibre based diet. Just hifi and fibre nuts
 
Brightbay said:
Provided it's not a pain or discomfort issue, it is certainly possible to work with and improve the horse's behaviour. I'd advise using the services of someone who knows how to design and implement a systematic desensitisation and counter conditioning programme though (and that's not the "desensitisation" that you'll have offered by e.g. a natural horsemanship person, it's much closer to the human equivalent of psychological therapies offered to people with phobias and panic attacks).

However, it is worth ruling out pain and discomfort first, since you can't actually make a horse tolerate something that causes enough discomfort to evoke a fear response - it's like offering you therapy to deal with the pain of dental work without a local anaesthetic. Separately, if the horse does find shoeing uncomfortable, the hooves could probably do with improvement, since, rather ironically, good quality hooves tend to be the ones that cope best with shoeing!

Pulling shoes, getting a trim, examining diet very carefully for anything that causes sensitivities, and using hoof boots for riding over more challenging surfaces might be a good first step. Since you say the horse wasn't too bad when hinds were being trimmed rather than shod, that does indeed suggest there's an element of discomfort, if not pain, involved with shoeing, so you may well find that many of the issues disappear when it's simply a trim. Worth investigating anyway!

Message me with your general area if you want the details of some qualified behaviourists who will work with vet and/or farrier to improve the foot handling/shoeing issues, but a change of management is usually the best first step, and in this case it would be trimming rather than shoeing.
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Sounds interesting. We have had her checked out by vets and full work up with no problems. She did have an op on one of her hind legs a few years a go so perhaps it's related to then.
I'm in Oxfordshire area - any suggestions would be great
 
You just need a really good, patient farrier who will work through it with you. Mine has shod allsorts that have been refused by others, he is great. Get a good recommendation and I'd even offer to pay extra for his time the first time to get it sorted once and for all. Once she's calm you can establish if there is any pain.

Surely she's going to be the same having a trim? Are we really all saying that OP should remove shoes, switch to a 'barefoot trimmer' i.e. someone incredibly less qualified, and - most of all - that the mare is to recognise the difference between a farrier and the other?
 
sjdress said:
She is on a fibre based diet. Just hifi and fibre nuts
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Dengie Hi Fi? Which one?

Really you need a molasses free diet and most of the Dengie Hi Fi's have molasses in. They do a molasses free one, but it has alfalfa in which some horses go footy on - so despite the name, they aren't the best high fibre source. It's like Happy Hoof, which is often renamed crappy hoof as so many horses go footy on it.
 
My little Connemara was a nightmare to shoe, and had to be sedated (oral) as well for about a year. He is tonnes better now and doesn't need sedation but I completely understand the stress it is and it comes round every 5-6 weeks! What did help was tying him up with one of my others (well behaved) who was being shod and then shoeing him directly after. The panic got to be less and less and now he can stand on his own, but can occasionally move back and try to break free if no-one is standing at his head.

Major achievement was farrier coming down and replacing a shoe (hot shod) all by himself a couple of weeks ago. When we first got him, that would not have been an option, he would try to fight through the sedation.
 
SkewbyTwo said:
You just need a really good, patient farrier who will work through it with you. Mine has shod allsorts that have been refused by others, he is great. Get a good recommendation and I'd even offer to pay extra for his time the first time to get it sorted once and for all. Once she's calm you can establish if there is any pain.


Surely she's going to be the same having a trim? Are we really all saying that OP should remove shoes, switch to a 'barefoot trimmer' i.e. someone incredibly less qualified, and - most of all - that the mare is to recognise the difference between a farrier and the other?
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I have to agree with you. Not keen on barefoot to be honest.
My farrier has been great and has never got fed up or lost his temper with her. He is a fantastic farrier but has said in his whole career he has never seen another horse like it.
Worth trying a different farrier perhaps but trust mine so much to do a good job
 
SkewbyTwo said:
Surely she's going to be the same having a trim? Are we really all saying that OP should remove shoes, switch to a 'barefoot trimmer' i.e. someone incredibly less qualified, and - most of all - that the mare is to recognise the difference between a farrier and the other?
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Not at all. I use a Farrier to trim my unshod/bf horses as he's very good. However if the best hoof care professional in my area was a trimmer, I would use them.

Also yes, horses do know the difference between being trimmed and shod - they aren't that thick. :p Especially if the problem stems from the horse being pricked when the nails are put in.

Now the scales have fallen from my eyes RE shoes, I'm much more open and indeed keen to look at other options eg BF and boots if needed. Horse boots have improved so much, the new Renegades, for example, look super.
 
Of course horses know the difference between being shod and trimmed .
If I where you OP I would get a copy of feet first and try the the barefoot with boots route .
Of course it depend entirely on who you are working with you but my trimmer is way more qualified to keep a horse working with out shoes than most farriers .
Trimmers also don't have that burnt foot smell.
It's also much easier to trim than shoe a horse that dislikes it .
 
sjdress said:
Sounds interesting. We have had her checked out by vets and full work up with no problems. She did have an op on one of her hind legs a few years a go so perhaps it's related to then.
I'm in Oxfordshire area - any suggestions would be great
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Katie Wade of Animal Minds would be the person I know who would be nearest to you who's qualified and works under vet referral :)
 
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