At my wits end - schooling issues

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Sprat

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I'm hoping someone can help...

My gelding is so heavy when I school him, it's driving me mad.

He is a 7yr old Section D cross. He can school really nicely and work into a correct frame but recently this has been more and more difficult to achieve. I ride him in a hanging cheek with a lozenge.

Whenever I ask him to work into a contact, he just dives on my hands horrendously, I feel like I am constantly battling against him. I'm very strict with myself so that I give the contact a little when he yields to my hand, but after a stride he gets heavy again, so it's a constant thing. I have tried hundreds of transitions, pole work, lateral work etc. My instructor has advised that I concentrate on getting him sharper from my leg rather than how heavy he is, but it's just not working.

He had his teeth done last month, along with his saddle being refitted, and also had his back done.

I'm running out of ideas. He is great to hack, not heavy, but then I don't ask him to work into a frame when hacking. Jumping he can get a bit strong but generally I don't have any issues with this.

The last thing I want to do is bit him up as I'm sure it's a schooling issue and I love competing dressage so bitting him up is not going to be the best option. I feel like I'm having to force him into a frame which is also what I don't want!

I'm half tempted to send him away for schooling, but then I will feel like I've failed with him.

Hoping that someone more experienced has some ideas for me? I don't know if a different bit may be worth trying, perhaps something that is loose ring as opposed to fixed?

Wine and cookies for all that read this far :)
 
Your instructor is right you need to concentrate on getting the hind leg more engaged and active rather than focusing on what is happening in the front, until he can really carry himself he will find it hard to do so without leaning to a degree but there is plenty you can do to help.
I would start by putting him in a loose ring so there is more movement and less to set against, plenty of people use hanging cheeks but I have yet to find a horse that gives me a good feel in one, most of mine start off in a loose ring and very few require anything else.
Then look for quality work from him keeping each session short and finish before he gets tired, make use of transitions to get him pushing from behind, halt to trot, walk to canter and directly down again before he really gets going onto his forehand, be careful you are not giving the contact away too much when he softens, if you drop him he will follow it which may be why things are not really improving, he needs some support while he learns to carry himself and become soft.
I would also do some work on a long rein getting him stretching properly so he cannot rely on you to hold him up and he can really stretch down and learn to remain in front of the leg without any real restriction but make it clear when he is picked up again that he comes up until invited back down, often horses that are inclined to be heavy never learn to work deep as the rider fears it will encourage them to be even heavier, which is not usually the case, they need to be able to be put in whatever frame you ask for.

If you do send him away, it can be really beneficial to have the horse worked by a pro, then make sure you have some lessons while he is there, it is certainly not failing even the top riders send their horses away at times when they need a different approach to an issue.
 
^^^ agree, its a self carriage issue. He is not truly round, or off his forehand. Be positive has given you some brilliant exercises but also think about getting him softer through his neck by doing some flexion and counter flexion exercises. And also avoid the temptation to hang on, as he will only become stronger.
 
I second work on a long rein. I think that's the most important thing you should be doing - don't give him anything to lean on and then push him so he's working from behind. In time he will develop the right muscles and carry himself. It isn't your job to pull him "into a frame". What you have to do is develop his muscles so that he carries himself. THEN you can take up a contact and he'll already have been "in a frame" anyway - just with his head low - so it should be easy to lift his shoulders without destroying the roundness.

To keep him from dropping onto the forehand, get him yielding to your leg around bends (do lots of bending) and do lots of transitions - both up and down and within gaits. If he feels like he's falling forward, half halt with your seat and just raise or wiggle one rein as a reminder to come back - but don't take up contact and give him a chance to lean. Basic lateral work should also help - especially haunches in.

You can also try some pole work and small jumps to build his strength.
 
Thanks all, some really good advice, and lots to work on. Hopefully there will be light at the end of the tunnel!

I'll start by popping him in a loose ring and working him lower. Would you all recommend doing a full schooling session in this sort of frame for a while or pick him up and then lower him again within the session?
 
Don't think so much about picking him up, more him coming to you as it were? You don't necessarily want to work in a low frame so he is on the forehand but working towards the kind of contact you want to ride with... soft elastic and easy. Be very aware not to get strong back with him, ride with your hands slightly like you were playing a piano with very soft wrists. Every time he dives down to lean do a transition or a turn (quite tightly) so he has to lift him self and use his hindlegs.
 
Sprat said:
Thanks all, some really good advice, and lots to work on. Hopefully there will be light at the end of the tunnel!

I'll start by popping him in a loose ring and working him lower. Would you all recommend doing a full schooling session in this sort of frame for a while or pick him up and then lower him again within the session?
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For me this would depend on his stage of training. If he is very green, I'd only work on a loose rein to develop the topline and self-carriage before worrying about raising the forehand. But at the same time, I'd work on getting him to step under on his own using exercises like the ones I mentioned above, half-halting and yielding to leg and pushing on. That's not to say your rein should be totally loopy - it should just be very light so if he leans, he just stretches into it and it offers no actual support. I would not let it get to the point where you are having to make sharp turns to lift him - instead only do as much as he can manage without dropping onto the forehand. If that means you have to walk and do serpentines and transitions the entire time, so be it.

Achieving self-carriage, IMO, is about the horse developing a certain way so that it does so "naturally" - more so than training the horse to carry itself a certain way like a "trick", if you see what I mean? So the point is to make use of your time riding to work the correct muscles. But not to reprimand the horse when it gets things wrong. If the horse falls onto the forehand, you have to support with your leg and push on and half-halt to get him to step under (doing a lateral exercise or circling usually does the job) but only enough that the horse is working through the back. You shouldn't worry about actually lifting the shoulders and getting the head/neck in position until the horse is properly developed for that kind of work.

If your horse is already at that point, I'd begin with work on the loose rein, long and low (not 'deep') and focus on rhythm and going off the leg well. Lots of transitions within gaits. A few turns. Then take up some more contact for a few strides and if the horse carries himself well, go back to long before the horse begins to lean. Over time, you'd increase how long you're keeping the horse up for as he gets stronger and more used to working in that more uphill frame. Low does not have to mean downhill, incidentally... If the horse is developed in the right direction, low will just mean round without the shoulders/neck up. He may not be as uphill as he'd be when you take up contact and ask for collection, but not really "on the forehand" either (which is why you should use yours legs and seat to keep him going forward and engaged when exercising him low).
 
I have the same problem with my 10 year old welsh x percheron. Interestingly after attending a bitting clinic i have changed from a loose ring french linc to a d ring curved bar frnch linc. The jury is still out on whether she goes better in this. I have had lots of lessons over the years from several different instructors and often different advice . From shorten the reins, hold the contact and keep kicking to contant squeezing of the reins to ride on a long rein and give her nothing to lean on.. Add to this transitions, lateral work etc. Unfortunately still only limited progress. This summer instead of sending her away to be schooled i decided to move onto a yard and have the instructor ride her several times a week plus have lessons. 6 months later i have a much fitter horse who at the end of a schooling session with the instructor riding looks to be working in a softer frame. I myself am still struggljng to achieve this. One instructor told me that she would not be suitable for dressage as she was built to pull! Oh well onwards and forwards. Good luck with your horse. I will continue to enjoy my horse whatever her and my short comings.
 
I am definitely in the 'give them nothing to lean on' camp. I would also recommend riding schooling exercises on your hacks. How is the horse supposed to know the difference between hacking and being ridden in an arena? He should just know that he is being asked ot do what the rider indicates. Encourage him to bring his hindquarters under him at all times. If your legs are not strong enough, consider having some lessons on a mechanical horse, so that you can concentrate just on what you are doing, without worrying about the horse.
 
Whenever l have issues with my mare l try to solve them riding on the buckle so l know l am riding from the seat. lf it can be solved on a loose rein, it can only get better with a contact.

Yesterday l was having straightens issues - she wanted to counterbend and flex to the outside, thus falling in through the inside shoulder and cutting corners. You couldn't use your outside rein for support as she would use it as an excuse to duck out of it. instead we went loose with the rein and l changed the rein and asked for counter bend on the 'bad' rein. Effectively she got her counter bend that she wanted but it was on the side she was refusing to flex into. From this we moved onto half pass, shoulder in and walk pirouettes - all the time on a loose rein and using her awkwardness against her to achieve the moves. After about 1 minutes of actually having to think and work she was quite keen to go straight. And when l took the rein back up she stopped using it against me :}
 
Thanks for the replies everyone.

I went and got a loose ring snaffle yesterday and rode in it last night. It was a definite improvement. I did lots of work encouraging long and low, and then transitions etc when he did get on his forehand, I have to say it was the first ride I've had in a while that I came off smiling!

For the first time, he actually began seeking a contact without me asking for it - It was a lovely feeling!

I kept it short, and finished on a good note, so hopefully this will continue :)
 
Sprat said:
Thanks for the replies everyone.

I went and got a loose ring snaffle yesterday and rode in it last night. It was a definite improvement. I did lots of work encouraging long and low, and then transitions etc when he did get on his forehand, I have to say it was the first ride I've had in a while that I came off smiling!

For the first time, he actually began seeking a contact without me asking for it - It was a lovely feeling!

I kept it short, and finished on a good note, so hopefully this will continue :)
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Fabulous news!
 
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