At my witts end, tb help really needed

[brown tack]

Ok i brought a 17hh 8yr tb gelding last spring, for what i hoped for to do some be 80-90 and maybe a bit more. well it was a 3 weeks from when i saw him till when he got dropped off and he was in a right state, poor feet, weight etc. Said to the seller wasnt happy but just thought he needed some tlc.

well did all the normal checks, teeth=ok, feet=woeful couldnt keep shoes on for months, just got to that stage now, back= horridous
Spent 2 months working with physo, back person, farrier and vet, walked him out in hand before any ridden work, all costing me an arm and leg and took out a second job to pay for his treatment.

ridden work started, saddle fitted, all went well, hacking out alone, company, no issues.

one day went to school him on the flood flat which i did many times, fine in walk, trot, asked for canter and he reared full up, almost come over, leaving me with 3 broken ribs as i bailed. Turned out he had changed shape and saddle was pinching badly. New saddle brought.

All fine for a while.

At the start of winter he got him self caught on a gate out hacking, just purley because he went though when it wasnt fully open, this ended up in him blind pancking down the road, ripping his side open, throwing himself down on the road. well it was just really really bad, i ended up with more broken ribs, no confiendence, the horse then had 2 months off with his injuries.

all checks done again, another new saddle as changed shape and brought back into work, with me having 2 lessons a week on him, hacking, etc, no jumping as yet.

Well due to my confiendence got a pro rider to jump school him for me, all good loves his jumping and the bigger the better. 4 weeks into her riding him, he got a fright in the field before she came onto the yard, which ended up with him bolting round the field. some of the livieries caught him, carlmed him down as best they could but he was still wound up. the rider came to ride him (doing a few on the yard) liveries told her what had happened, but she went and rode him anyways.(i was at work and not told about the field problem till the evening) He was then very up tight and not really listening he then mucks up a bounce combination and she comes off quite badly, hurting her hip, no broken bones.

the problem is when the 3 issues have happened, he totally loses his head and just thinks of himself, he completly tries to rid himself of you and it always end really bad.

however he is a complete angel to handle, clip, shoe, catch, hack, in every way other way he is fab.
He rides very defenvisly, you put your leg on and he reacts, getting over this with time. however he doesnt buck, rear, p'off with you.

so what do i do? do i sell? put in more time/work with him? im at my witts end, ive really formed a strong bond with this horse but at the same time, he worries me that something bad is really going to happen.

please help, all comments welcome

 

[joeanne]

Sounds like he is a sensitive horse. In all fairness that last incident you describe, I would not attribute blame anywhere. The horse made a mistake, the rider came off....it happens the world over all the time!
You dont say what he was doing before you got him, that might have a bearing on his behaviour now, although at 17hh if you are lacking confidence in him, then maybe you should sell and get something you are more comfortable with.

 

[brown tack]

Sounds like he is a sensitive horse. In all fairness that last incident you describe, I would not attribute blame anywhere. The horse made a mistake, the rider came off....it happens the world over all the time!
You dont say what he was doing before you got him, that might have a bearing on his behaviour now, although at 17hh if you are lacking confidence in him, then maybe you should sell and get something you are more comfortable with.

his history is quite cagey, found out that he has been though the sales a few times, no owner contacts in his passport. all i know for certain is that he didnt race, and wasnt it training.

when i brought him he was jumping 4"+ courses, not compelting just at home, his owners told me that he had the previous year off due to her compelting her other 4 and her husband used to help till he had a car actident.

With me he has done some clinques, dressage comps, fun rides, and a few logs, banks, steps out hacking.

He is quite a nervous nelly and takes a while to relax but that is getting much much better both in himself and in his ridden work

 

[Saxon_Jasmine]

He sounds very, very sensitive. I also have a sensitive TB who rears when something goes wrong. I've found it's best to just build things up really slowly with her, and make sure she's always confident in me and in herself.

Try to keep a strict routine with him; this should eliminate some of his anxiety. Make a work plan for him that will build his confidence, just doing really simple things, and give loads of praise for each little thing he does right. You could also try 'playing' with him to help build trust.

I'd definatly keep going with him, as it sounds like you have a nice bond. Good luck

 

[helencharlie]

Try and do some groundwork with to build up confidence on the ground and build a better trusting relationship. My tb is sensitive and will throw his toys out of the pram when not happy. Rearing is usually the last resort, but prefers backwards movement before rearing. Try and watch a richard maxwell demo if you can. When riding just take everything slowly and go back a step when he tells you he is not happy. Does he show any other behaviours before he rears. When my tb is about to rear, I get plant mode first and then resistance and finally the whites of his eyes, then I know he is going up. If you can find the pre-rearing signs then you might be able to change what you are doing before this happens. Watch and listen to his body language, he will be trying to tell you something, but then your job is to interpret what he is telling you. What are you feeding him? Mine is very sensitive to sugar. When I cut sugar out of his diet, all of his behaviours changed. Good luck

 

[brown tack]

Try and do some groundwork with to build up confidence on the ground and build a better trusting relationship. My tb is sensitive and will throw his toys out of the pram when not happy. Rearing is usually the last resort, but prefers backwards movement before rearing. Try and watch a richard maxwell demo if you can. When riding just take everything slowly and go back a step when he tells you he is not happy. Does he show any other behaviours before he rears. When my tb is about to rear, I get plant mode first and then resistance and finally the whites of his eyes, then I know he is going up. If you can find the pre-rearing signs then you might be able to change what you are doing before this happens. Watch and listen to his body language, he will be trying to tell you something, but then your job is to interpret what he is telling you. What are you feeding him? Mine is very sensitive to sugar. When I cut sugar out of his diet, all of his behaviours changed. Good luck

he's only ever reared the once, so is not a regular rearer. My main issue is that he blanks out, ok its been 3 times in 9 months but when it happens he is so dangerous that he doest care what happens to you or himself. I bit like the wife beater guys on jermey kyle when they say that they black out and dont know what they doing when they hit there partners.

Ive done all the ground work inside out, and i do a session once or twice a week, plus 2 lessons, a pro rider riding him and hacking.
Dont think its a feed issue as on day to day hes a lamb and doesnt put a foot wrong at all, he is by far the most well bahavered horse ive ever met.
ive had a few hacks with friends and there horses have p'eed off with them and mine has just calmly walked over to them on a loose rein.

on a day to day he doesnt do anything wrong, its just his unpredicabilty as you dont know when its going happen, and its so quick when it does. so far i havnt been able to come up with any triggers

 

[hayinamanger]

He sound like a lovely horse and worth trying to help him. I totally understand that he can be very frightening and I'm sorry for both of you.

I think, if I were in your situation, that I would find a good Animal Communicator who could find out what has happened to him to make him go off like a missile in these situations.

That said, I have never used one (I think you have to select very carefully to avoid fake ones) but I have read some very interesting stories about them and it just could make a difference.

Good luck with him.

 

[brown tack]

He sound like a lovely horse and worth trying to help him. I totally understand that he can be very frightening and I'm sorry for both of you.

I think, if I were in your situation, that I would find a good Animal Communicator who could find out what has happened to him to make him go off like a missile in these situations.

That said, I have never used one (I think you have to select very carefully to avoid fake ones) but I have read some very interesting stories about them and it just could make a difference.

Good luck with him.

Funny you should say that i tried jackie weaver and also my mum is one, not as good as jackie but still.

Jackie said that at times he feels like he loses control over his body and he is sorry for when he does. other than that he wasnt giving away any other clues into why or his history. I had the same with my mum, its like he has put a wall and doesnt want to talk about it, typical bloke!

 

[brown tack]

bump

 

[brown tack]

anyone?

 

[joeanne]

I still say he is a sensitive sort.
He is not "blacking out" at all. He is panicing at a situation he does not understand, and acts accordingly....he runs away!
The first time sounds pain related (badly fitting saddle = pain). You sorted the probem, and the behaviour.
If you had gotten your foot stuck in a gate would you have not paniced?
And the third time was not him loosing his head at all, he made a genuine mistake at a bounce, the rider fell off and thats about it!
He reacts the only way he knows how!
My little tb once bolted after getting her foot stuck in the bellly strap on her rug. Any other horse would have stood so you could undo the blasted thing, but being the sensitive little soul she is......
So no, I dont think your horse has any problem than being like many other TB types and being a bit on the sensitive side. If you cant cope with him, it might be best to sell him onto someone used to that type of horse and get yourself something a bit more laid back.

 

[Rosie Round The Hills]

Hello, this sounds like such a problem for you. Just on the Animal Communicator point, if you would like I will pm you the details of the lady I used. On the basis that some people 'open up' to the right person but not the wrong person - perhaps it might be worth trying her. I certainly trust her implicitly.

Otherwise - my only thoughts are this: he sounds lovely, but highly strung. Like a delicately made gold watch that works perfectly for weeks and weeks, then for no apparent reason it stops, and needs to go to the expensive but careful watch-repairer for some TLC.

Are you happy to lead a laid-back life with him? To be the rider that always takes double care when coming through the gate 'just in case', and the person who thinks twice before going to the xc course? Do you mind these restrictions in your riding life?

Or is he holding you back from really enjoying yourself?

Are your expectations healthy for him? Or are you asking too much of him, making him unhappy?

I'm certainly not presuming to guess or judge , I just thought that perhaps those sort of questions might help you consider your options.

God luck with whatever you choose with him.

 

[Jerroboam]

He sounds just like any typical racehorse. How do you know for sure he wasn't in training? He doesn't have to have raced for that way of life to be ingrained in his being. Some thoroughbreds are like this, you aren't alone, mine hunted beautifully 10 days ago jumped and was very mannerly but today (on a hack he is so used to) he reared and planted himself. He also has no back problem, teeth etc, just v quirky. Perhaps build your confidence up on something smaller and if you can afford (as it sounds like you've had a costly time!) let somebody else have him for a little while. Good luck!

 

[brown tack]

Hello, this sounds like such a problem for you. Just on the Animal Communicator point, if you would like I will pm you the details of the lady I used. On the basis that some people 'open up' to the right person but not the wrong person - perhaps it might be worth trying her. I certainly trust her implicitly.

Otherwise - my only thoughts are this: he sounds lovely, but highly strung. Like a delicately made gold watch that works perfectly for weeks and weeks, then for no apparent reason it stops, and needs to go to the expensive but careful watch-repairer for some TLC.

Are you happy to lead a laid-back life with him? To be the rider that always takes double care when coming through the gate 'just in case', and the person who thinks twice before going to the xc course? Do you mind these restrictions in your riding life?

Or is he holding you back from really enjoying yourself?

Are your expectations healthy for him? Or are you asking too much of him, making him unhappy?

I'm certainly not presuming to guess or judge , I just thought that perhaps those sort of questions might help you consider your options.

God luck with whatever you choose with him.

Thankyou

In day to day life he is fab, and can do every thing i ask no questions.

We came 2nd in our 2nd ever dressage test last week and so pleased as punch with that.
I did want to do some small BE's with him but dont think that will happen just yet. Although he has defo the brave, boldness for that, just want to get the ground work/trust right before over facing ourselfs.

I so happy with the daily life with him, as he is so easy. But i work alot so the YO turns out/brings in for me, i still go down twice a day but my life doesnt fit in with the other liveries and he stresses when on his own. And the YO is also happy to handle him as he is good to do, and she wont do naughty/difficult horses, she says life is to short.

Ive taken his schooling back to basics and he is really progressing well, a trust is forming and his confindence is growing. I dont mind getting off to open gates, and i try not to put him in uncontrolled/difficult prosition and i try to do to everything as safety as poss.

BUT its the times when i cant control it and he reacts really bad.
Is it just him being a TB, ive had TB's before and never had any issues with this before but all were really laid back and non tb like

 

[brown tack]

Hello, this sounds like such a problem for you. Just on the Animal Communicator point, if you would like I will pm you the details of the lady I used. On the basis that some people 'open up' to the right person but not the wrong person - perhaps it might be worth trying her. I certainly trust her implicitly.

Otherwise - my only thoughts are this: he sounds lovely, but highly strung. Like a delicately made gold watch that works perfectly for weeks and weeks, then for no apparent reason it stops, and needs to go to the expensive but careful watch-repairer for some TLC.

Are you happy to lead a laid-back life with him? To be the rider that always takes double care when coming through the gate 'just in case', and the person who thinks twice before going to the xc course? Do you mind these restrictions in your riding life?


Or is he holding you back from really enjoying yourself?

Are your expectations healthy for him? Or are you asking too much of him, making him unhappy?

I'm certainly not presuming to guess or judge , I just thought that perhaps those sort of questions might help you consider your options.

God luck with whatever you choose with him.

Yes please could i have your communicators name and number?

 

[racingdemon]

I bought a horse a number of years ago that used to do this (before i bought him he'd bolted along A roads, put people in hospital (badly), galloped through things.... you name it!) it took a LONG time & certain things always unsettled him, but we spent months doing really basic stuff, he could jump for fun, but couldn't cope if it went slightly wrong, so we just spent forever making sure everything was so so easy for him.

my advice, if you're at all unsettled while you are on him, sell him to someone who is quiet & calm with plenty of patience, if you're happy & relaxed when riding him, keep going, but be prepared for a slow slow road, horses like this take ALOT of time to develop their own confidence in themselves, as a PP mentioned, its a reaction because they don't know what else to do, & you should develop their own self confidence so that they do how to react.

 

[deicinmerlyn]

I still say he is a sensitive sort.
He is not "blacking out" at all. He is panicing at a situation he does not understand, and acts accordingly....he runs away!
The first time sounds pain related (badly fitting saddle = pain). You sorted the probem, and the behaviour.
If you had gotten your foot stuck in a gate would you have not paniced?
And the third time was not him loosing his head at all, he made a genuine mistake at a bounce, the rider fell off and thats about it!
He reacts the only way he knows how!
My little tb once bolted after getting her foot stuck in the bellly strap on her rug. Any other horse would have stood so you could undo the blasted thing, but being the sensitive little soul she is......
So no, I dont think your horse has any problem than being like many other TB types and being a bit on the sensitive side. If you cant cope with him, it might be best to sell him onto someone used to that type of horse and get yourself something a bit more laid back.

Echo above. Many horses, TB or not would have reacted in the same way given the circumstances.

 

[brown tack]

I bought a horse a number of years ago that used to do this (before i bought him he'd bolted along A roads, put people in hospital (badly), galloped through things.... you name it!) it took a LONG time & certain things always unsettled him, but we spent months doing really basic stuff, he could jump for fun, but couldn't cope if it went slightly wrong, so we just spent forever making sure everything was so so easy for him.

my advice, if you're at all unsettled while you are on him, sell him to someone who is quiet & calm with plenty of patience, if you're happy & relaxed when riding him, keep going, but be prepared for a slow slow road, horses like this take ALOT of time to develop their own confidence in themselves, as a PP mentioned, its a reaction because they don't know what else to do, & you should develop their own self confidence so that they do how to react.

Thats really good advice, thankyou. I think im quite calm with him and ive got patience to burn, im not in any rush to be out doing stuff, our yard is a comp center so i can most stuff without traveling and upsetting him.
Its just so hard when everyone puts there 2pence worth in. I was having a chat with my instructor the other day after a lesson and she said she was over the moon as to where i had got him as she didnt think he would learn to settle and relax.
I do feel fairly confindant when im on him now, happy to hack alone, canter though open fields no issues. And hes not a spooky horse so thats good.
However the other day he did put put it a mightly big spook at some fruit pickers putting up some of the poly tunnels, he stopped and spun, first time he did that. I managed to correct him straight away and walk on past without any more spooking etc, and i just laughed it all off.
Also when in a lesson the other day, we were trying to open up his right shoulder and get him to balance himself more, however when asked for it in the canter he miss understood and put in a huge leap forwards for no where, much to my instuctors surprise as she thought he was going to give me a "little bit more", but again just able to laugh it off. Re-ask more simply and then got the result i required

 

[china]

All behaviour happens for a reason, you just need to work out what the anticeedant is. keep a diary of everything that happens. for example maybe tuesday morning he naps or bucks, look at what happened before this behaviour, it might have been something as simple as you picking up you reins, using a certain leg. A patern will start to form.

 

[racingdemon]

Sounds like you're on the right tracks.... i think it's quite natural to have a little wobble now & again, esp with horses like this, I'd keep going, & as my trainer is always telling me.... don't think about what other people might do/say,

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

anyone?

Please don't dismiss the idea that his behaviour might be food related. We had a WelshDxTB whose behaviour was very unpredictable. When we first got her she was fine, then her behaviour became erratic, we thought we had solved the problem with a new saddle, etc. But everything was just a short-term fix. After she had got much worse, we changed her feed to eliminate sugar and cereal and she was like a different horse within a week. I would say it is certainly worth a try.

 

[kirstyl]

Sounds like you're on the right tracks.... i think it's quite natural to have a little wobble now & again, esp with horses like this, I'd keep going, & as my trainer is always telling me.... don't think about what other people might do/say,

Very good advice, racingdemon. All horses have their wobbles, some worse than others. You just have to try not to dwell on what's happened unless there was a specific problem which can be rectified. Onwards and upwards, you sound as if you are doind a good job so far! My ex racer has 'wobbles' quite often. He's generally rock steady, but little things can mean a lot to him! I have regular lessons, I am experienced riding the lively sort of horse and I know that when he goes well (wich is 9 times out of 10) it is so worth the trauma

 

[Cedars]

I would be checking for KS, gastric ulcers and teeth.

If none of those I wouldnt be doing any ridden work at all-loose schooling, playing in the field, lunging over some poles, hacks in hand etc. Make the world unscary with you comforting him at his head. You can spend time doing horsey massage, stretches for carrots, grooming obviously. I would be coming right back to basics and saving any more broken bones before starting again softly softly.

But I think youre currently on an ok track as well. Just keep making sure he's seen super regularly by saddler etc as he's obviously v aware of pain.

Good luck!! Xx

 

[Keridwen]

Your horse sounds lovley when not panicked, i'm all for animal communicators, i have a few friends who are, and the massage that flamehead suggests (i'm an equine massage therapist myself, so i would reccomend anyway, lol) but maybe your horse needs more than just communicating, Healing could be really needed, if these communicators can offer a from of healing, then great. Accidents such as these can cause such trauma emotionally and mentally (as we all know and have experienced) sometimes training and re-training and talking and understanding what HAS happened just isn't enough, we need to help heal the trauma before continuing. And i know many riders who poo poo the whole "Healing" thing on animals, but i have personnel experience that healing can help, Sometimes you just have to find the right person who can touch the horses spirit to help heal.
Hope this helps abit, and good luck.
Blessings.