At wits end... housetraining HELP

LauraBR

LauraBR

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Our first two dogs were pretty much totally housetrained within a month or so give or take the odd accident.

Our JRT is now nine months old and we are still having a complete nightmare with her. I'm seriously getting p**sed off with it.
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Having thought we were getting towards cracking it a month or so ago she is back to her usual self- basically going in the kitchen or hallway any time she fancies it.

We have tried EVERYTHING but the crux of the problem is we just can't catch her at it. We can watch her for hours and she will NOT go, yet as soon as your attention is diverted for a second there will be a puddle on the floor- sometime only a few feet away from you! Have tried starting from scratch with those training pads but she is not interested in them.

Have tried keeping her on a long line while sat on computer etc which stops her from going in the house while she is on it but doesn't solve the problem.

We stand for ages with her in the garden and give her floods of praise and treats when she goes but that doesn't help her with the going in the house- I honestly don't think she understands that going in the house is wrong.

We have scrubbed the floors with all kinds of recommended potions to remove the smell (as there are a few key places she goes) but it just doesn't have any effect.

She's too smart to hide from and I just can't see how to catch her at it!!!!!

Someone please help, can't carry on like this!
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I'll probably get shot down for this as it's so old fashioned, but grab her by the scruff, stick her nose in it, bad girl and outside with her. Worked for my dog after months of mess!
 
You won't be shot by me!

By this time, in fact I would have cracked a long time ago TBH, I would have done exactly that, I'd also have given her a whack on the backside too for good measure.
Now, she is just being lazy but she also knows she gets attention from you when she does it, could this be a clue?
I'd chuck away the lead and shut the back door instead so she can't get inside the house while you're out; I'd only have certain places she could go in the house (but you'd have to do the same with the others to be fair to her, so that might be a problem for you. When you do take her outside for a pee, don't just stand there, hands in pockets waiting, play a game with her, throw things etc that might help too but be out there as long as it takes, don't go back inside until she has performed - you soon get used to grabbing your coat and preparing for a long stay out!
There are no short cuts to this; some are better than others as well, but it is making the rules that are fair and sticking to them, being ultra consistent, even if it means going outside every hour; it might take time but you should get there and when she does puddle in the house, make life so unpleasant for her that she remembers.
 
I agree
Dougal took ages on teh nice and kind method so we gave up, and went back to our old method.
You poop/wee inside, you get nose rubbed in it, boot up the bum and outside.
Worked a treat
 
Thank goodness it wasn't just me then! People have told me I'm very harsh on my dogs, especially the gundog. Then again, these people aren't dog owners.
 
Gah.... just taken me about 5 attempts to get to the reply box!!!!!

Will try the telling off approach but I don't think she feels that she gets attention for it currently- if anything she gets completely ignored (we make a point of it, likewise make a massive point of fussing her when she does go outside). Although- she rarely wees in the house when we are not home... so perhaps inadvertently we are offering her some kind of incentive? Not sure what though hmmmm

The problem isn't so much that she doesn't understand about going outside- we take her to the door before her breakfast, after breakfast, regularly through the day and evening and she knows the command 'toilet' and most times she will go if we take her out- she has her routines etc.

The problem is that she does not understand that going indoors is not allowed and I guess it is much easier going in the warm house than it is outside- one trick of hers in bad weather is to do half a wee/poo outside and then do the rest inside when your back is turned 15 mins later!!

I really need to find a way of catching her at it and absolutely rollocking her for it- but it's like an impossible feat because she is so damn sneaky!!!!!
 
But that would only help if she was never in the house? She is fine overnight as she is in her crate and never messes in it.

I would have to seriously harden my heart to keep her outside while the other 2 were inside...

So annoying. I thought JRTs were supposed to be clever!!!!!!!!!!!
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Not sure this will help - but you say you fuss her when she goes outside - is she food orientated? Because you could also give her a treat (like liver or chicken?) for when she goes outside?

Does she mind going in front of you when outside? Cos it sounds like she is deliberately taking herself off - or waiting till you not looking?

I have also heard that jrts can take time to be house trained, up to a year, then they are always clean - but i haven't owned one myself - so not sure how true this is!

If you want to read more stuff on house training this might be of interest here

or here

or here

Sorry - that might be over doing the links - but you can search that site and lots comes up.

Hope you manage to sort it
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why not put her in the crate once she has been outside for a while.
then when you bring her out of it put her straight outside for a wee. treat her as if she is back to been a small puppy restict her time out of the crate for a while during the day when you are home.
she will soon get the message as she wont want to wee on her own bed.i think she has just got into the habit of weeing where she wants.
 
We used to give treats when she went outside which worked well for a while... and then she started pretending to go just to get the treat (actually squatting but not doing anything!)- or would do a tiny drop of wee for the treat and then go inside. We knocked it in the head!

She wees right in front of us in the garden (likes to go right outside back door
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).

Will take a look at those links, thanks.
 
Funnily enough I started doing exactly what you describe this morning! Do you think it might work?

Have also been putting her in the crate or outside any time I can't give her my full attention (whilst making lunch for example)... so far so good today...

She is an infuriating little witch!
 
Yep.....agre with HOPNSKIP I would go back to basics with the crate also......When ever I get a new dog/puppy in I restrict their space until I get get a consistent routine.....I never leave them in a room alone and when I leave the room I place them in their crate.....everytime I let them out I put them straight out to toilet.....I have a little staffi pup in now and whenever I open the crate he runs straight for the back door....I dont pay him ant attention until he has relieved himself and returned.....if I am busy he goes back to the crate with his kong and if im not busy he can come and sit with me.....or I go back out and play with him.

How old is she?
how long have u noticed her urinating like this? inside.
 
She's 9 months now Cala and she has always done it. I think probably the few months when I was laid up with broken leg (she was 4 months old when I broke my leg) compounded the problem as struggled to get about and wasn't quick enough to prevent accidents...

We do have good weeks and generally things are improving slowly but it's just ridiculous as without a VERY watchful eye she WILL go in the house
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The reason I asked was just to rule out incontinence/urine infection/weak bladder.

Otherwise I would definatley confine/restrict her space until she becomes more consistent in learning to do her business outside.....It is common for dogs to relieve themselves in the same spot....so if u are going to confine her temporarily back to her crate and only allow her more access when u are present it might be a good time to thoroughly clean her frequent piddle spots
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with whatever is recommended to best cover the urine smell(not thast im saying u havnt already
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) Its just her scent will be able to detect the areas she has urinated in better than yours
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which will make her more prone to mark over them again(does that make sense
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If as u describe she piddled frequently when u where unable to get to her quick enough.....then it maywell be she got into a bad habit of thinking the house is her relief zone
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So I would definatley as HOPNSKIP suggested.....revert back to her crate and start again.....by restricting her access of numerous rooms, whenever u cant supervise, and getting into a consistent routine of crate to garden......this will give her a guide and routine to learn before she is let loose unsupervised in the house again.
Let her out as frequent as you can, and every single time u let her out of the crate....make her go straight outside.....when she has relieved herself, maybe have some play time so she assosiates the garden as a fun place to be in order to encourage her to stay out for longer.
 
I agree with HOPNSKIP and CALA...go back to basics with her as if she were a young puppy, and use the crate as an aid.

If she has an accident in the house please don't rub her nose in it or smack her. Dogs have an extremely sensitive sense of smell...this level of punishment really isn't required when she can be taught to go to the toilet outside by positive methods.

There is no need to be harsh in training dogs. They do not learn effectively by punishing them for doing what you don't want them to do. They learn most effectively by positive reinforcement of correct behaviours.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Thank goodness it wasn't just me then! People have told me I'm very harsh on my dogs, especially the gundog. Then again, these people aren't dog owners.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can I ask why you feel the need to be very harsh on your dogs, especially your gundog? As an owner of both pet dogs and working gundogs i can categorically say that my gundogs are better behaved than my pet dogs. I train my own dogs and other peoples dogs for gundog work and have never felt the need to be harsh on any of them. They are all eager to please and willing to work because they enjoy their work. IMO harsh handling negatively affects the bond between dog and owner and the dog will never fulfil its potential if its not enjoying its work.
 
I was going to suggest the crate as well. And lots of praise when she goes in the correct spot.

And are you absolutely sure it isn't spay incontinence or a UTI? If left untreated, UTIs can hang around forever, especially in younger female dogs. They can also appear to dissipate but come back.
 
How clever do you want her to be?! She has worked out when you are not looking - the dog is a genius! Evil little sods, JRT bitch pups, but ultimately the most fun dog you will ever own. It is very hard to reason with a JRT because they do not see themselves as your inferior, or even as your equal. The only hting that occurred to me is could she have a bladder infection that is making her wee a oot more than usual? Most likely to be bloody-minded-ness though. I wouldn't rub her nose in it, but definitely a smack might sort her out.
 
[ QUOTE ]

And are you absolutely sure it isn't spay incontinence or a UTI? If left untreated, UTIs can hang around forever, especially in younger female dogs. They can also appear to dissipate but come back.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm totally sure it is not a bladder problem and if I had a shadow of a doubt I would have her whipped over to the vets- she has just developed the wrong behaviour.

Have gone back to the crate (well, semi) and not a single accident in 2 days. Getting back into the habit of shutting her in the room with us, and putting her in the crate when we are cooking or getting ready to out etc.
 
LOL yes indeed! She probably is too clever for her own good. Stubborn too.

I honestly don't think she has anything wrong with her bladder- for a start the problem is more with pooing in the house and secondly the patterns of weeing she has don't raise any concerns.

Bloody mindedness is a pattern we see in a lot of things though lol!
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thank goodness it wasn't just me then! People have told me I'm very harsh on my dogs, especially the gundog. Then again, these people aren't dog owners.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can I ask why you feel the need to be very harsh on your dogs, especially your gundog? As an owner of both pet dogs and working gundogs i can categorically say that my gundogs are better behaved than my pet dogs. I train my own dogs and other peoples dogs for gundog work and have never felt the need to be harsh on any of them. They are all eager to please and willing to work because they enjoy their work. IMO harsh handling negatively affects the bond between dog and owner and the dog will never fulfil its potential if its not enjoying its work.

[/ QUOTE ]

But the thing is, I'm not that harsh with them. They just see it as that. At the end of the day she's a working dog, not a pet. We have a fantastic bond. She'd go to the ends of the earth to pick a bird up if asked. She loves her work.
 
Hi
I have a 6 month old puppy and had exactly the same problems and it drove me crazy!! In the end I did two things and now she is pretty good apart from the occasional wee (but really very occasional). I restricted her space using baby gates so that she wasn't sneaking off to do it! Then over a weekend I took her out into the garden every 10 minutes. If she didn't go after 1 minute we came back in - no standing out for hours like I had been doing whilst she sniffed and played!!. Then straight out again after a few minutes. On the times she did go (because out every 10 minutes means they do have to at some point) I said quietly "be quick" and then as soon as getting up used a clicker to click and treat her. After 24 hours much better and after 2 days got the idea. Like you mine could go for hours in the crate without any problems so definitely being a bit thick (or just naughty)., I know it sounds a lot of effort but life is sooooooooo much better now I am not constantly cleaning the floor and i feel I can trust her now! Not easy - best of luck!!
 
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