Avoiding laminitis when managing good doers on grass livery and frosty grass

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Daisy2

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How do you manage your good doers that may have the potential for laminitis when on grass livery? Its always a worry for me, but so far have managed to keep any side effects of sugar rich grass by strip grazing through the winter.

Any tips or experience most welcome:)
 
I was thinking about this this morning. I also religiously strip graze all year round. But this morning when there was frost on the ground I was tempted not to turn out :o I know your on grass livery so this isn't an option.

My pony hasn't had lami since I've had her but she is the very sterytypical good doer (new forest pony!) and my farrier is sure she has had sever lami previously due to the strech marks in her feet so I'm always really careful with her and she lives on a diet!!

So I have no advice to give, but will be watching this thread! :)
 
I've always been told that frosty grass poses no real risk of lami to ponies out 24/7 as they both get used to the increase in frost as it gets colder and the frost increase in the grass overnight. The real risk is to horses in at night, turned out on a heavy frost.
 
One of my ponies had a laminitis attack 3 years ago, although only mild. I moved her onto a friends farm about 6 months ago on grass livery. She grazes rough grazing with 11 others and 4 cows. Still unrugged (not shown this year or next), she's shod in front and worked at weekends and holidays, due to the dark evenings. She has never looked better, eyes bright, not too fat (she wasn't made to be lean!) and happy. I must stress that the grazing is rough mind, its the reason I put her there! I don't particularly like keeping her in 24/7 or muzzles if I can help it so I have chosen this location for its lack of grass! All the other liveris complain.....I don't :D
 
Am in the same predicament as you, I think. My buxom 15.3 cob had always been fine for the 6 years I've owned her. I keep her at home, out 24/7 with other horses. She used to have hay ad lib but developed RAO so had to go on to haylage. That was fine for 2 years, but last winter she went down with really bad laminitis, out of the blue, on Boxing Day. Vets attributed it to over-rich haylage (the local dairy farmer had made it more like silage) and frozen grass.

So here we are in the danger period, and I'm edgy about how things will go. At present we have plenty of grass, and she gets a token two handfuls (literally) of haylage morning and night when the ex-racer has his big haynet-full. She is on a handful of Alfa A Lite, two handfuls cool mix and about half a pint of sloppy unmolassed sugar beet. She's ridden (hacked) 3 or 4 times a week.

I'm not sure what to do if we get a prolonged cold snap like last year. The feeling was that it was the frozen grass that was most to blame. So do I muzzle her, or try to keep her in the stable yard more, or what? I thought of double netting the haylage she will be getting more of then, to make it last longer, but it's a really thorny problem. What plans, if any, have you made?
 
Oh I never feed her anything either....not even after work, never tie up with a haynet when she's being tacked up etc. The ponies will get hay put in field when it gets awful but thats it. She doesn't get treats or anything. I am of the old fashioned ilk I'm afraid. She's used in the riding school when needed as well for lead rein lessons. Btw she is a purebred welsh B no longer shown though, just used as a working pony and I can honestly say she's never been happier.
 
Rose Folly said:
Am in the same predicament as you, I think. My buxom 15.3 cob had always been fine for the 6 years I've owned her. I keep her at home, out 24/7 with other horses. She used to have hay ad lib but developed RAO so had to go on to haylage. That was fine for 2 years, but last winter she went down with really bad laminitis, out of the blue, on Boxing Day. Vets attributed it to over-rich haylage (the local dairy farmer had made it more like silage) and frozen grass.

So here we are in the danger period, and I'm edgy about how things will go. At present we have plenty of grass, and she gets a token two handfuls (literally) of haylage morning and night when the ex-racer has his big haynet-full. She is on a handful of Alfa A Lite, two handfuls cool mix and about half a pint of sloppy unmolassed sugar beet. She's ridden (hacked) 3 or 4 times a week.

I'm not sure what to do if we get a prolonged cold snap like last year. The feeling was that it was the frozen grass that was most to blame. So do I muzzle her, or try to keep her in the stable yard more, or what? I thought of double netting the haylage she will be getting more of then, to make it last longer, but it's a really thorny problem. What plans, if any, have you made?
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I have not made any plans but the regime is to carry on strip grazing only because its 13 acres and 2 horses with a large area of grass but not lush as its been grazed by sheep all summer up until now. I won't feed hay unless we have deep snow, unrugged and a token feed of unmollased sugarbeet for vits. They have been muzzled all spring/summer and Autumn so hence the strip grazing because I wanted to give them and me a break. I do check the temperature of the hooves every morning with my hands and smile when they feel stone cold, both barefoot. I am hoping this is a way of catching any early signs.
 
Not according to the vet, she wasn't even on stud mix or anything to contribute to it, just the frosty grass & a big dose of bad luck.

Unfortunateately the evil disease can strike when u least expect it as there are so many causes & contributing factors, its not just tubby natives in little work, can be fully fit TB's who get concussive/stress lami due to hard ground etc. :(
 
My pony got lami last summer - she weighed 390kg at the time, which is not a lot for a 14.1hh Welsh D, and she was fit, working six days out of seven, doing dressage, XC schooling, sponsored rides and hacking for three hours a couple of times a week. She was on blue chip lami lite and a handful of hifi lite for her joint supplement and out in a starvation paddock. I totally agree about lami striking when you least expect it.

My plan for this winter: she is in overnight as she is fully clipped and I am giving ad lib hay but the poorest I can find, and in a small holed net. She eats about three bales a week. She's out in the day in a bald paddock which I am strip grazing - there is no way I am letting her have the lot, for one thing for the grazing, but especially since the bottom fence borders the pavement and I don't want pedestrians giving my horse treats. I have seen drivers stop and chuck apples into the field for YO's horses before - she doesn't mind but I would go ballistic if I caught someone feeding mine! Apples that you don't know about are bad enough, however well intentioned, but what about kind, well intentioned grass clippings, or sugar lumps from someone who loved Jill's pony stories and wants to treat my laminitic? No, I will keep her far, far away from that fence.
 
My mare has had lami, she is worked everyday has 1 scoop of Happy Hoof with Magnesium with weighed and soaked hay. Last winter we had lots of frost, snow and ice and I managed to keep her ok. She is stabled at night with weighed soaked hay then on a morning I give her 5lbs of soaked hay while I muck out, I ride her then turn her out so she doesn't go out till lunchtime. I go up about 4ish to bring her in, hopefully this management will work this winter too.
 
Daisy2 said:
I do check the temperature of the hooves every morning with my hands and smile when they feel stone cold, both barefoot. I am hoping this is a way of catching any early signs.
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I used to think this was a good indicator however it isn't! Even the temperature of healthy hooves fluctuates through the day so even if they were cold you still need to keep an eye out for other symptoms of laminitis. I found this when my little old pony came in appearing stiff one day and despite having cold feet, his pulses were pounding and he got locked up in box rest instantly. It was completely out of the blue mild case of laminitis but he was diagnosed with cushings 3 days later:rolleyes:
 
Is it just my imagination, or are horses far more prone to laminits that 30-40 years ag?. In those days it really was just small fat ponies that got it - now every sort size and age is vulnerable. You used to be able to heave a sigh of relief come the end of the September flush of grass and know that you were safe for the next 6-7 months. Not so now. The main difference seems to be that we feed our horses far more elaborately than of old. I've now gone back to keeping it very very simple, and seeing whether that works. Who knows.....
 
Totally agree Rose Folly, every horse/pony seems to be fed now, with mixes, balancers & suppliments.

Horses evolved eating lots of poor quality forage, and while its true that due to selective breeding breeds like TB's would now not do well on this poor diet, many breeds such as cobs & natives simply do not need these feeds unless they have a medical need or are in extremely hard work.
 
I tend to strip graze all winter to control the volume of grass and then stable at night to get him off the grass completely.
 
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