Avoiding trot to canter/canter to trot (Tim Stockdale) YOUR views?

soulfull

soulfull

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I watched the demo given by Tim Stockdale at YHL and also bought one of his books.

He said he never teaches horse to go thro trot for the canter transition as he feels it confuses them when you ask for collection/extension. Always goes from walk to canter to walk.

If I decided to do this how would you teach a horse that has never really cantered without using the trot??

What is everyone's view on this in general ??

Of course I guess you couldn't use this method if you wanted an allrounder as you need to do trot to canter for showing and DR etc

Or maybe you could teach them that when jumping you don't use the transition????
 
I personally have never had a problem with transitions within the paces i.e. if I want a collected canter then that's what I ask for, if I want extended trot then that's what I ask for. Dressage horses can do it so why not showjumpers, I don't get that really.

I don't think it's confusing for a horse if you teach and then use the correct aids.
 
I think you have to bear in mind that his horses are schooled and have a different purpose than the majority. All his horses have a good grounding in all the basics and then when they progress through their schooling they get taught to just canter - that is what they need showjumpers at the top level to do.

Whilst his demos are very entertaining I think you have to look at it with the perspective of it being his 'job' and the fact he rides at top level so has very different expectations of his horses - it doesn't make him right or wrong.
 
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I think you have to bear in mind that his horses are schooled and have a different purpose than the majority. All his horses have a good grounding in all the basics and then when they progress through their schooling they get taught to just canter - that is what they need showjumpers at the top level to do.

Whilst his demos are very entertaining I think you have to look at it with the perspective of it being his 'job' and the fact he rides at top level so has very different expectations of his horses - it doesn't make him right or wrong.

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That was what I thought but just wondered what you all thought.
 
I don't avoid trot to canter, when I school in the first canter I do I will go through trot, but I always after that do at least one walk to canter (or halt to canter if I can) transition.

I am not a pro (far from it - ha ha!), but I find that walk to canter gets more 'jump' off the leg in my canter and is probably good practise for me so my SJ roundsare not too dreaful
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For Sjing purposes walk to canter and canter to walk are very helpful, as they straight away get a good active canter and encourage the horser to engage. When getting a jumping canter, or when jumping in general, I will do alot of work on walk to canter, canter to walk etc (my 4yr old is established in these transitions now) but I will also jump from trot as she is being produced to event, and has to learn to jump (within reason!) from sometimes less than perfect approaches.

The bottom line is, you have to train your horse to be off your aids, adjustable and athletic, and if you don't need trot, the easiest way is to miss it out
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Mine can't even do trot to canter never mind walk to canter!
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Though she can do canter to dead stop, or even gallop to dead stop if there's something hiding in the bushes.
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I can understand where he's coming from as mine does find extension and collection difficult - as fas as she's concerned, if I put any pressure whatsoever on the reins, she breaks down a gait, if I keep my leg on to keep the energy and impulsion, she just gets confused and breaks down a gait, then jumps back up a gait continually. Phew we need some schooling!
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The only thing I'd say is that it can be really beneficial for the novice rider! I was lucky enough to have a lovely RS horse (sadly lost too young, RIP Edmund - gosh, teared up as I wrote that!) who would try to fix the rider's mistakes.

I learnt walk-to-canter on him very soon after startign to canter at all and think it can give the rider a feeling of the spring from behind a good anything-to-canter transition should have.

Means I now find it easier to tell when I've got a horse working well from behind. (Not necessarily to get then to though!)
 
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For Sjing purposes walk to canter and canter to walk are very helpful, as they straight away get a good active canter and encourage the horser to engage.

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Yep, this is why I was taught to do it and I hardly ever trot to canter now
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I wonder if I can still do it
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I have a major problem getting anything but walk to canter on either of mine!!!

I can understand with Zoomy since she is ex-polo so could barely trot at all when I got her. Monty is a funny one since he always favours a beautiful collected canter to trotting. He used to event (allegedly!) so must have needed to trot at some point. He is very stiff in his hocks when not warmed up since he is so old but I would think a proper collected canter would be MORE uncomfortable??!!

Sorry to hijack but if anyone knows why he likes cantering so much let me know!
 
I think the point here is that Tim Stockdale is producing horses for a specific purpose.

I can understand the need to have a good rhythmic canter when show jumping, and the need to keep that going, and agree, some horses do need to skip transitions to encourage better and more engaged and forward transitions.

I think the problem arises when, the exercise is misunderstood.

Perhaps the lesson should be, make sure your trot is correct, (rhythm, pace etc) before you ask for canter. Or, if you wish to do walk to canter, to walk transitions, make sure your horse has the correct level of schooling and understands the aids!!

I have visions of lots of people walking along nicely then suddenly booting a horse to make the horse canter, resulting in a confused horse, running away and with no control.
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I have a major problem getting anything but walk to canter on either of mine!!!

I can understand with Zoomy since she is ex-polo so could barely trot at all when I got her. Monty is a funny one since he always favours a beautiful collected canter to trotting. He used to event (allegedly!) so must have needed to trot at some point. He is very stiff in his hocks when not warmed up since he is so old but I would think a proper collected canter would be MORE uncomfortable??!!

Sorry to hijack but if anyone knows why he likes cantering so much let me know!

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Cantering is easier than trotting thats why many horses prefer it
 
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I have visions of lots of people walking along nicely then suddenly booting a horse to make the horse canter, resulting in a confused horse, running away and with no control.
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lol certainly not something anyone with any sense at all would do!!!!
 
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I don't avoid trot to canter, when I school in the first canter I do I will go through trot, but I always after that do at least one walk to canter (or halt to canter if I can) transition.

I am not a pro (far from it - ha ha!), but I find that walk to canter gets more 'jump' off the leg in my canter and is probably good practise for me so my SJ roundsare not too dreaful
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I do this too. I will always warm up at shows with walk to canter - I find that Murphy is far more responsive to my aids this way, and it wakes him up a bit ready for his round. I also do canter figures of eight with a stride of walk in the middle. He will do flying changes in the ring without being asked, but I find exercises like that get him listening to me.
 
I think I watched the same demo last Saturday morning?
I would aim to end up walk to canter with a jumper, although may take some time to achieve this, and would go trot canter first.Also he made some very astute points about tack, and helpful hints re trot poles.Very nice to talk to, felt he really listened, but we are Tim fans anyway!
JC
 
I do use walk to canter and canter/walk practising simple changes. It makes my horse sit more and listen to me and improves the quality of his canter.
 
Mine goes from walk to canter much easier than from trot. In fact in dressage tests I sometimes find that we have missed out the trot bit!
 
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