Awful, awful, awful

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prosefullstop

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I have just seen one of the most upsetting dog sights in all my life.

This evening we took a slow stroll around our neighbourhood, and saw a German Shepherd--very elderly--resting on the pavement; its owner and another guy with a camera were at the dog's side.

I didn't think much of the situation, until the dog started barking, Stella barked back, while Prince--slow at the best of times--is taking his blessed time looking for a spot to pee. One of the men tells me to move my dogs along. Cheeky sod, I think, we're on the opposite side of the street and not causing him any grief. All the same I'm tired and can't be bothered with an argument.

Next thing the GSD gets up to stand. Only it can't. It keeps trying but its back legs are completely straight out and useless. The owner tried to help but that was no help. The dog eventually gave up and resumed lying down.

I moved along, as the same guy who told me to move along, started giving me bad looks. At least I know the street--it's very close by--but I don't know if there's anything I can actually do about this dog, is there? The dog wasn't yelping or anything, but it made for such a pathetic, heartbreaking sight.
 
I would guess that the dog is suffering from CDRM also known as degenerative myelopathy, its an awful disease in which the dog ends up with paralysis of the hind end. My dog has this and gets around with a wheelchair they apparently and dont seem to have any pain it is an awful disease
 
winslow said:
I would guess that the dog is suffering from CDRM also known as degenerative myelopathy, its an awful disease in which the dog ends up with paralysis of the hind end. My dog has this and gets around with a wheelchair they apparently and dont seem to have any pain it is an awful disease
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I'm so sorry to hear about your dog. Is it something that strikes in old age?

Maybe this Shepherd did have a wheelchair--the men were doing some sort of photography session with the dog--but I didn't see one. Maybe it was "time" and they were taking some last photos of their beloved companion. I don't know. It upset me a great deal, though.
 
Yep sounds like DM, a horrible horrible condition. Affects the nerves to the spinal column, all research seems to prove the dogs are in no physical pain, but having sadly lost a few of my shepherds to this condition I personally feel there is definitely mental pain. If you can imagine a once active dog unable to get itself to feet, eventually they are incontinent if they are kept that long. I have always let mine go before that stage, it is a condition where I apply the ruling "better a month too soon than a day too late".
Winslow, huge sympathies to you, it is heart breaking.
Prose, it tends to affect them from middle age on, I have been "lucky" in that mine have all been in double figures, but I know of dogs that were off their legs by around 8 years old.
 
MurphysMinder said:
Yep sounds like DM, a horrible horrible condition. Affects the nerves to the spinal column, all research seems to prove the dogs are in no physical pain, but having sadly lost a few of my shepherds to this condition I personally feel there is definitely mental pain. If you can imagine a once active dog unable to get itself to feet, eventually they are incontinent if they are kept that long. I have always let mine go before that stage, it is a condition where I apply the ruling "better a month too soon than a day too late".
Winslow, huge sympathies to you, it is heart breaking.
Prose, it tends to affect them from middle age on, I have been "lucky" in that mine have all been in double figures, but I know of dogs that were off their legs by around 8 years old.
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So sorry to hear you've been through this with your own dogs, MM.

This dog I saw was definitely in double figures. Maybe, in my PMS-state, I'm projecting, but the dog didn't seem happy one bit.
 
Sounds like DM. It is an awful disease. Some breeds are known to carry it. But it can affect all dogs, pedigree and non-pedigree alike. There is however a simple DNA test for it, bucal sample only required so no need for bloods. For anyone thinking of breeding a litter it is wise to test both dog and bitch.
 
Yep another one with a Shep who had CDRM. She had the tell-tale knuckle-scraping for a good while but the first day I saw her unable to get her hind end up, we called the vet straight away. She had given us 14 amazing years and had already come through a broken leg as a puppy so we weren't going to give her another day of struggle.

It is a hateful condition, although a lot of people know nothing about it and a lot of people blame the lack of use of legs on HD, when no x-rays have ever been taken of the dog in question to find out.

ETA My mum's great old showing bitch took it at ten but she kept her on until 12 and has never really forgiven herself :(

Thanks for putting that out there HB and if we ever breed again (unlikely!) I will certainly get that test.
 
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CaveCanem said:
Yep another one with a Shep who had CDRM. She had the tell-tale knuckle-scraping for a good while but the first day I saw her unable to get her hind end up, we called the vet straight away. She had given us 14 amazing years and had already come through a broken leg as a puppy so we weren't going to give her another day of struggle.

It is a hateful condition, although a lot of people know nothing about it and a lot of people blame the lack of use of legs on HD, when no x-rays have ever been taken of the dog in question to find out.

ETA My mum's great old showing bitch took it at ten but she kept her on until 12 and has never really forgiven herself :(

Thanks for putting that out there HB and if we ever breed again (unlikely!) I will certainly get that test.
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I was going to ask, surely when a dog is in this much discomfort it should be PTS? or can it be successfully managed with drugs?
Usual disclaimer: I know nothing about dogs :D
 
AFAIK Sarah it is a neurological/nervous disorder so once it happens, it happens.

It's purely personal - some people do put their dogs on wheelchairs and I have nothing against people who do but for me, GSDs are a weightbearing breed and I wouldn't make an old dog support it's whole weight on the front end. Also, they become incontinent which can be very distressing for dogs.

I had already as a little girl seen J barely able to move, I had witnessed my mother's guilt and like I say, D had reached a fantastic age for a GSD despite what life had thrown at her (she had her front leg smashed and then pinned after she escaped and was hit by a car when she was between 6-9 months), she was a supremely fit oldie who I had done a little showing (fast gaiting) and agility with - and my mother and I had always agreed that the minute she became immobile, she would be let go. She just was not a dog that would have coped well.
She was from German herding lines and in her prime she was literally always on the go.
 
Harkback, I had no idea about that test, wouldn't you have thought it would be well publicised in the GSD world as the breed does seem to suffer from it a lot.
Sarahsum1, like CC I couldn't put one of my dogs in a wheelchair, but it is purely personal and I do know of people who have and the dogs seem happy running round in them.
 
CaveCanem said:
AFAIK Sarah it is a neurological/nervous disorder so once it happens, it happens.

It's purely personal - some people do put their dogs on wheelchairs and I have nothing against people who do but for me, GSDs are a weightbearing breed and I wouldn't make an old dog support it's whole weight on the front end. Also, they become incontinent which can be very distressing for dogs.

I had already as a little girl seen J barely able to move, I had witnessed my mother's guilt and like I say, D had reached a fantastic age for a GSD despite what life had thrown at her (she had her front leg smashed and then pinned after she escaped and was hit by a car when she was between 6-9 months), she was a supremely fit oldie who I had done a little showing (fast gaiting) and agility with - and my mother and I had always agreed that the minute she became immobile, she would be let go. She just was not a dog that would have coped well.
She was from German herding lines and in her prime she was literally always on the go.
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Thanks, i have never been in that situation but i think i would feel the same as you.
 
It is easily done in the USA for $60. In fact you can request a swab kit and send back the DNA sample by mail. There are a couple of places also in Europe that offer it. Oddly the Animal Health Trust, the forefront of genetics for animals in the UK does not offer it (yet) for all breeds.

I think like in many breeds in the UK DM and other genetic diseases are kept quite by breeders. Number 1 they will not admit it is in their lines; number 2; unless it is something offered in the UK they will not consider testing; number 3 - and this i hear all the time, the cost! Well what is more important, a $60 DNA test, or potentially producing a litter that will carry DM and require treatment or euthanasia? We are WAY behind the US, and Scandinavia in routine testing for health defects.

Out of interest go to CHIC http://www.caninehealthinfo.org/ to see just what people routinely get their dogs tested for in the USA. In my breed with no recognised inherited disease people still test for autoimmune thryroiditis, heart, eye, elbow, hips. They are not ashamed to have their dogs listed on the database. And this is AKC supported. Wish our KC would get off their high horses and really work for the health of dogs.
 
Is it proven to be hereditary HB?
J was from very old English lines and D was from, like I say, German herding lines, worlds apart. Although of course at the end of the day they all go back to one dog....

We produce hip and elbow results and progeny averages, the former for several decades, and I think one website in particular publishes JRD carriers. But there is definitely more room for improvement.
 
I have to say HB my experience is that breeders are honest about DM, but it does seem to appear randomly so I don't know if it is considered hereditary so much as the breed is susceptible to it. The dogs I have had with it have not produced it in immediate offspring (obv as it shows late they had been bred from) as far as I am aware, but more to the point I would think every line would have dogs in it who have had DM.
 
All though not proven to be hereditary I have seen in research "patterns" in lines, and conformation leaning towards developing it. So I would and to avoid the extremes of toplines, etc that may be a factor in later life when the skeletal frame and muscular support naturally degrades.
 
Thanks for the link, interesting research. As a matter of interest, do you know if the research shows any links to HD, I have heard of a couple of cases of dogs with bad hips not suffering from DM whereas a relative with good hips does.
 
As DM seems to be linked more to degenerative conditions in the spine HD would really not have as much bearing on development of the disease as say a breed with a roached or arched topline and steepish fallaway (GSD), or long backs in relation to leg length (corgi, daschund, etc.).
 
My bitch 3:3 developed it at 11, very active bitch won at agility and veteran breed classes up to 9 years. Her daughter hip score total 30 was fine, again both had level toplines, its really good more research being done, not totally convinced its down to roached backlines, as far as I am aware (and stand to be corrected) its not a problem in whippets or bedlingtons with real roach backs.
 
It certainly is present in whippets and bedlingtons but often goes unrecognised / undiagnosed as DM here. Again in the US reputable breeders often screen in these breeds and small breeds for DM. On conformational factors one research paper has cited the ratio of back:loin lengths. So yes a flat backed dog with a longer back to loin has a higher % of DM, than dogs with shorter back to loin.
 
Ah right, I said I would stand to be corrected. Just goes to show, I always thought it was just the scourge of GSDs had no idea so many breeds were affected.
 
Reading what you guys have written this is what I think my old lab x springer may have had. She did become incontinent and her legs were going day by day, which is when (at the ripe old age of 14) I convinced my mum to have her PTS.
 
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