Awful hack on new horse

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Akkalia1

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So I bought a new horse just over two weeks ago. I have an ex-racehorse who has come on leaps and bounds and our schooling is going well, but who is never going to be able to hack around where I live due to regular lorries and tractors being on the road. I've tried and tried to get her used to it but it's just not safe. I can't part with her, I love her despite the difficulties we've had and we're starting to really progress with our dressage which we both enjoy.

So I thought I'd look for a second horse - bombproof happy hacker type. After much searching I found one. Lovely nature. When I first tried him I liked him but had some doubts. He is bombproof in all traffic and forward going which I like. But I found him very strong. And almost too forward, think turbo walk, not that happy to stand or slow his pace. I said to the owner that although I liked him I had concerns about how strong he was. She said she didn't find him strong so was confused. She texted me later to say having thought about it, the only time she'd found him strong was when he'd moved yards and his routine was different. She'd put him in a pelham for the first two weeks after a yard move until he settled. She wondered if having a different rider on him (she's had him since he was 3 and he's now 11 and really she's the only one who rode him and they have a close bond) might have caused him to be unsettled and strong. She suggested she bring him for a hack to a local park and I could try again in his pelham. So we did that and it went perfect, not fazed at being in a new place, got off lorry, stood calmly etc. Much more relaxed horse when riding and just a touch on the reins to slow him down. He went over bridges, alongside a roaring dual carriageway, didn't bat an eyelid and we had a lovely canter. I was beaming and agreed to buy him. Apparently he's always been a lead horse, we rode out both times with another horse who was behind us. He also had a standing martingale on for this hack.


So he arrived 2 weeks ago, I gave him the first week to just settle. He got on fab with my mare. I kept my shetland separate as he is known to try and bully other geldings! He was great to do everything with, very straightforward compared to my mare. During the second week I rode him (in his snaffle) a couple of times in the rested part of the field next to the other horses and he was good. I took both horses out of the field to the stables separately when riding them to get them used to going away from each other. There was a bit of whinnying/running about but generally fine. However my mare has been in season the last few days and is like a limpet with the new boy. He is also very stuck to her!! They seem rather in love. However we managed a ride in the field during this time and he was fine. I tried letting the shetland in as he seemed to be glaring at the new boy less. However they went at loggerheads with the shetland coming off worse and who now is not allowed anywhere near my mare.

Sorry this is long but that's all a bit of background to help give the full picture!

On to the hack. Thought it was time to try a hack. My friend brought her horse down to hack out with me as thought it would be best to try first hack in company. Pelham on. No standing martingale. As soon as we walked out of the yard together he did turbo walk then got very upset, started prancing, did a rear/buck then reversed into a ditch. I got off wondering if I'd put the curb too tight. Didn't really think I had but loosened it off a link just in case. Got on, made it along to the field although he was upset and reversed into a fence at one point. Did a bit of walking round the field with my friends horse. All ok. Headed off again with me in the lead by some distance. Friends horse is also used to being in the front so she kept him well back so there wasn't any issues. Managed all the way out down the road but my horse was doing his turbo walk and whinnying his head off the whole way. Anytime my friend brought her horse anywhere close he was threatening to prance and rear. We got to a gate into an estate where you need to press a button to open the gates. Just managed to make him stand to press button, waited for gates to open then he absolutely launched through them in a fly rear! Carried on, made it to the other side of the estate when you have to press another button for the gates. He wasn't having that and threatened to rear and buck. I turned him in a couple of circles then asked him to approach the button again. At that point he launched forwards in a rear straight into a wire fence with just trees on the other side. I got flattened against his bum, he got tangled in the fence and I had to slide off the back. Miraculously neither of us were injured. At that point I'd had enough and told my friend to go and enjoy a bit of a longer hack and I'd lead mine home. He walked back fine in hand.

To say I was terrified was an understatement. I've had some hairy hacks on my mare but I don't think even she would have launched herself through a fence with trees on the other side. It was almost as if there'd been a wall there he might have done the same thing! Also marginally concerned that even without the extreme behaviour he may be a horse that won't let another horse walk alongside. My fault for not checking that.

Did I do something wrong do you think? Too soon for a hack with a new person in a new place? He seemed fairly settled generally! Has he maybe just got utterly attached to my mare? Should I have paid more heed to the first time I tried him when he was strong? I want to give him the benefit of the doubt but I was told he'd never reared or bucked, which may well be true, but the reactions he had were extreme to say the least. Maybe I've rushed him but I thought I'd bought a fairly established horse who was going to be my safe hacker and while I might have expected him to be a bit unsettled on his first hack I didn't expect what I got. My friend was gobsmacked at his behaviour.

Sorry it's long but if you've made it to the end thoughts would be appreciated. I'm fairly upset and confused as to how to progress with him. Not exactly thrilled at the prospect of getting back on to be honest.
 
It doesn’t sound like you have done anything wrong to be honest, although I’d have got him home and worked him straight away rather than ‘letting him settle’.
I’d probably ask old owner to come over and ride him out for you / help you with the behaviour .... their response might indicate whether you have a problem or just a blip
 
ihatework said:
It doesn’t sound like you have done anything wrong to be honest, although I’d have got him home and worked him straight away rather than ‘letting him settle’.
I’d probably ask old owner to come over and ride him out for you / help you with the behaviour .... their response might indicate whether you have a problem or just a blip
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I did think I was going to basically get him going straight away but asked the owners advice as she'd moved him yards a few times. She said she normally gave him a couple of weeks to settle in a new place and suggested I do the same.
 
I also have spoken to the old owner who says it doesn't sound like him at all. She offered to come and help, but then said she's worried that if she comes over now she might ruin any new bond I'm forming with him as she said they were so close and he was a total mummy's boy. So I said I'd try a bit of riding in the field this week with maybe a couple of very small hacks just me and him and then get back to her at the end of the week. I'm honestly a bit terrified though, we could have both been badly hurt.
 
Sorry to hear this, sounds awful for you. :(
Could you perhaps lead him out in hand a few times to get to know the area? Perhaps take your mare with him? I think I would carry on for a couple more weeks and if he is still doing it, then make a decision on whether to keep him or not as he could just be nervous about new area and rider, they aren't robots at the end of the day. I would just spend some time building up trust and see how things go from there. If he hasn't improved, then make the decision to either try to get your money back and return him or investigate the problem to see if it is pain related. Good luck x
 
It *may* just be that he takes a long time to settle and if he's been with his old owner for many years you can understand why he might be feeling worried, scared and anxious.

That said, his behaviour sounds rather extreme even for an unsettled just-moved horse. Did he behave when you got off? If he's happier with you leading him, could you lead him round a very short hacking route a couple of times and the try getting on him halfway round and riding him home?
 
Ellietotz said:
Sorry to hear this, sounds awful for you. :(
Could you perhaps lead him out in hand a few times to get to know the area? Perhaps take your mare with him? I think I would carry on for a couple more weeks and if he is still doing it, then make a decision on whether to keep him or not as he could just be nervous about new area and rider, they aren't robots at the end of the day. I would just spend some time building up trust and see how things go from there. If he hasn't improved, then make the decision to either try to get your money back and return him or investigate the problem to see if it is pain related. Good luck x
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Good advice, bless him, he was perfectly happy and loving his owner and suddenly after many years from being very young she's sold him. He is clinging to your mare as he's feeling very insecure.

I'm sure he's lovely but it just all got too much to deal with and he lost it.
 
I wouldn't worry about the bond. I'm not a big believer in bonding. A horse needs to respect humans - especially one on his back - whether he's bonded to them or not. She needs to come and help you / see what he's doing asap. If you do hack him out please take someone with you on foot just in case.
 
Akkalia1 said:
I also have spoken to the old owner who says it doesn't sound like him at all. She offered to come and help, but then said she's worried that if she comes over now she might ruin any new bond I'm forming with him as she said they were so close and he was a total mummy's boy. So I said I'd try a bit of riding in the field this week with maybe a couple of very small hacks just me and him and then get back to her at the end of the week. I'm honestly a bit terrified though, we could have both been badly hurt.
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Sorry but her excuse does not hold water with me, no bond will be broken but I don't think she will be much help anyway, he sounds like a spoilt brat who is rather used to getting his own way, having to go in front is unacceptable in a well educated mannerly horse, what on earth would he be like on a pleasure ride or similar which should be well within the capabilities of a happy hacker.

I think you will have to either accept how he is for now and hope he does start to learn or remember how to behave or spend the next few months reeducating him, possibly a bit of both sometimes horses who have only had one rider all their lives are really lacking in a proper education because that rider has allowed certain traits to become normal, the power walking when under stress is a sign he lacks confidence, not just in you but in himself, some go in front but are not really leaders so when something changes they panic and the true horse shows,
Best of luck he probably will settle but I think your first concerns were probably correct and she set him up well for you the second time you tried him, a horse may take time to settle but in my experience genuinely sensible hacks don't suddenly become difficult unless it was underlying in the first place.
 
I have a beautiful sweet mare, I am her third owner. The first owner had her from ages three to ten? I think, the second owner returned her to the first as she was a complete lunatic while she was in the second owner's care (who was a lovely person and got a lot of help/visits from the first owner).

She was fine coming to me BUT she didn't come alone - she came with her field mate. Even then, she was glued to the field mate for a very long time after the move, months in fact. She was clearly upset by the change of owner/place.

Moving homes can be much harder on a horse than many realise, particularly if they've been in a home from a young age and were happy there.
 
Akkalia1 said:
I also have spoken to the old owner who says it doesn't sound like him at all. She offered to come and help, but then said she's worried that if she comes over now she might ruin any new bond I'm forming with him as she said they were so close and he was a total mummy's boy. So I said I'd try a bit of riding in the field this week with maybe a couple of very small hacks just me and him and then get back to her at the end of the week. I'm honestly a bit terrified though, we could have both been badly hurt.
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This would be the easy way forward, hack out with her on another horse if he is good it will just take a bit of time for him to get used to you. I nearly ended up with a ex race horse sold as a novice ride but when I asked the owner to ride in an open field she said no way thanks. If you see her ride it will rule this sort of thing out.
 
Sounds awful and frightening. I'd not hack until you feel confident with your new horse in a school first and progress from there. I find someone walking with you helps enormously with nervous or young horses to start with. Good luck.
 
annagain said:
I wouldn't worry about the bond. I'm not a big believer in bonding. A horse needs to respect humans - especially one on his back - whether he's bonded to them or not. She needs to come and help you / see what he's doing asap. If you do hack him out please take someone with you on foot just in case.
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I'm not either, but I do think its quite a big ask of a horse thats only known one rider and I do think we underestimate what a change of yard etc can do to some horses. A horse that has been a mummy's boy could quite honeslty been allowed to get away with allsorts and horses can be upset by different riders.

OP you know he can be a good hack-get old owner to come out or get a well respected pro to come and ride him for you once or twice and stick a standing on him. I do feel for you, must have been scary. I have a pony now that came from a single owner and one perhaps who didnt have tons of experience. He is everything I was told but there's been a couple of quirks to iron out on the way. He was also very aloof for a few months but biddable. now I've had him for 10 months now I feel we are really getting somewhere in terms of knowing each other.
 
I think the owner comment re bond is a bit of a cop out tbh! I would keep trying with the hacking (perhaps not by yourself until you feel safe) and see if the horse starts to settle. I have the most laid back horse ever but when I first started hacking her which i did straight away she did stuff like spin and run off, run backwards, spook and bomb down the road. I didn't enjoy it but I kept going and she is so not like that at all now! It really was very out of character behaviour, even my farrier said she was a nightmate to shoe at the start but is now a changed horse. she obviously just takes time to get used to new stuff. I do think they need to be cut some slack and expected some might do stupid things at the start.
 
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Insist the old owner comes and sees him. Bond or no bond :p. It doesn't sound to me like you have much of one that could be disrupted much at the moment anyway and even if you did I genuinely don't think it would be a problem.

Are you able to get friend to come and ride again so that you can see if the whole ride can be replicated?

Horses do change/stress on moving but from 'does not buck or rear' to the behaviour you describe seems quite extreme to me.
 
the only thing that stands out is that he had a week off from riding then you hacked him out in a strange place perhaps that's what upset him but I wouldn't expect bucking and rearing being a bit fresh I would understand, I also think the ruining the bond comment is crap sorry to be blunt but that is a cop out, I would insist she come down and sort this out if a previous owner is genuine they will want to make sure everything is right and your happy.

maybe do a bit of schooling and lunging and do a few short hacks with someone in between and see if he settles.
 
Sounds like nobody has really put any real effort into teaching him manners and maybe he didn't do anything like that with the old owner because life was on his terms most of the time. My mare dropped her shoulder and span quite violently the first few times I hacked her, and it's still her go to reaction if she sees something she doesn't like (sheep mainly?!) she also used to scream her head off anywhere new. It only took a week or so of consistent hacking and me being firm with her and now I honestly can't remember the last time she even thought about it. I think taking someone on foot is a good idea if you can- best of luck!
 
Sounds like he is feeling insecure and was having a temper tantrum about leaving your in-season mare with his arch enemy shetland rival
 
Also it might be worth putting your shetland back in with the mare and leaving the new one on his own.
 
I wonder if there is still some settling in going on, and some separation anxiety. My sensible horse was a complete nightmare when she first arrived, and I really struggled to hack out on her. I persisted, and it paid off. She is fine and the horse that was described to me. We just went very short distances - like a few tens of yards - but she learned she to follow my cues. We rode past the end of the drive so she learned that I decided when we turned in, not her. For a while we just went up and down on the road outside the house. We slowly built this up over time until we finally 'went for it' and have not looked back. My suggestion, and it may not be worth much, is to try little and often, and groundwork too.
 
Thank you everybody for your input. Conflicting opinions but I can see the sense in all of them tbh. I don't think the owner was making an excuse as such, I think she would happily come over if asked and maybe I should just arrange to do that as it might give a bit more insight as to exactly where the problem lies. Or not!!

I think he probably has been allowed to always go first etc which is a bit of the issue. But the extreme behaviour does sound as if it's out of character for him so I think a combination of all suggestions will be how I'll progress. He was fine in hand after I'd got off after the dive into the trees debacle. So may try some in hand hacks. I do maybe think separating him off from my mare might be a plan too. I have lunged him and he does so very well, so may try some of that before riding. Although I don't think that would have made a jot of difference to his behaviour yesterday. He is generally very well behaved in hand. I asked about the standing martingale and that was only on as he tends to head shake at the chain on the pelham. He does tend to toss his nose a lot if flies land on it so can see that being true.

So if I go on the basis that it is very out of character and most likely prompted by my mare and just plug away for a bit to see if it improves? While working on his confidence/manners as I do agree that the power walking seems to be when he feels under stress and shows a lack of confidence. I'm used to my mare going backward when she gets insecure!!
 
Advertised as good to hack alone and in company. 100% bombproof in the heaviest of traffic which seems to be true. And he was good to hack when I tried him, just strong the first time. As I said I was left beaming after the second hack, it was just what I'd been missing not being able to hack my mare.

I do however agree that his behaviour yesterday was dangerous.
 
Akkalia1 said:
Advertised as good to hack alone and in company. 100% bombproof in the heaviest of traffic which seems to be true. And he was good to hack when I tried him, just strong the first time. As I said I was left beaming after the second hack, it was just what I'd been missing not being able to hack my mare.

I do however agree that his behaviour yesterday was dangerous.
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I think you need to decide if the problem is the horse or simply you and the horse. If the old owner is helpful ask her out ASAP, ask her to do the exact same hack you did that went wrong and with your friend and her horse. You go in the car and observe at various points, even take a few videos (if she is happy) so you can remind yourself as to how well he can go (or otherwise) Ask her to take the lead, go behind and walk alongside.

That way you will have an answer. You have a horse that has serious problems or alternatively you have a horse so settled in his old home/old rider that has now been uprooted and you have to start to get him to work with you. If he goes well for the old owner can you try short hacks alone so he has you to focus on not your friend's horse where here is jostling for position.
 
amymay said:
Have you done a general Google search? Was the horse advertised as good to hack?

I'd personally be sending the bleddy thing back. It sounds completely dangerous.
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This was a private sale so sending back might not be an option if OP was told it needed to be hacked the front (think this was mentioned in previous post) and if it is OK hacking at the front.

I would take the seller up on their option as if they had the horse for 8 years the chances are they don't want to see it potentially being passed from pillar to post if it doesn't settle.

Have you tried hacking out alone ? Is it OK with this ? Possibly get the old owner to come and hack it out both on its own and with someone else.
 
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