Azutoria......timescales, your experiences....

unicornystar

unicornystar

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Hi there

Last week my poor lad tied up badly, within a couple a minutes of being taken out for a hack...having been in 24/7 due to his feet suffering in this wet weather...literally froze to a halt, sweat running off him like a river, he was falling over in his stable, and reversing up to the wall rearing through the pain poor thing.

The vet came quickly, painkillers and tubed him full of goodies in case he was dehydrated, he wasn't apparently but did sweat and foam profusely. Bloods showed as expected enzymes through the roof.

His muscles were rock hard and he really was in a bad way at the time. Since then he has been put on box rest (7 days on Friday this week), bute and no exercise or walking around at all.

My question is, in your experience is 10 days box rest normal after a bad episode? I really want him back out again 24/7 (aided by sedalin!) as soon as possible as I think he would be happier, his feet have recovered after being in a right state, but then on the flip side its suddenly turned cold, he cannot travel currently as ordered by the vet as it could set him off again.

His muscles are going towards a lot softer now and he seems his normal lively self.

I have friends who been told that it is fine to put their horses out after an attack of azutoria within "days".

I have a great vet and I really respect her point of view and she has good reasons for the way she is recommending his treatment.

I was going to have bloods again this Friday but she said that is too soon, and it needs to be at least 10 days....

On the down side I have a seriously pent up large horse who wants to go out and stretch his legs and eat grass...I would have thought as long as he is sedated to a point he could go out and gently sort himself out, my brain is saying the longer he is in the worse he will be....or am I being naïve, which is entirely possible having never had one of my own tie up. I don't want to damage him!

Thank for reading, cookies and milk.....x
 
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A week too ten days box rest is normal after a bad episode .
His bloods should be retested before you start to work him .
You will have to manage him very carefully in the future as they are always more prone .
Keep him on the warm side and always use an exercise sheet in cold weather .
Importantly he must never ever stand in again even if you spend time leading round the yard you have to get him out every day .
In the future try to get him onto a grain free diet or use a azoturia kind coarse mix I have used Saracen releve and gain freedom mix in the past .
If you go grain free you will forage based ways to reduce calories without bulk in poor weather . I use plain chopped straw .
I would feed him electrolytes daily from now on .
If he suffers again I would expect the vets to some tests looking at his electrolyte levels and a muscle biopsy to see what can be done to prevent attacks .
However on a first attack I would save my money you know why it happened now you just need to amend management to try to stop it happening again.
Did he stand in with no exercise ?
And if so did you reduce hard food ?
It's a complete pest once they have had it , Fatty had a massive attack as a five year old before he came here and as been delicate since , his is linked to his other issues .
 
Goldenstar said:
A week too ten days box rest is normal after a bad episode .
His bloods should be retested before you start to work him .
You will have to manage him very carefully in the future as they are always more prone .
Keep him on the warm side and always use an exercise sheet in cold weather .
Importantly he must never ever stand in again even if you spend time leading round the yard you have to get him out every day .
In the future try to get him onto a grain free diet or use a azoturia kind coarse mix I have used Saracen releve and gain freedom mix in the past .
If you go grain free you will forage based ways to reduce calories without bulk in poor weather . I use plain chopped straw .
I would feed him electrolytes daily from now on .
If he suffers again I would expect the vets to some tests looking at his electrolyte levels and a muscle biopsy to see what can be done to prevent attacks .
However on a first attack I would save my money you know why it happened now you just need to amend management to try to stop it happening again.
Did he stand in with no exercise ?
And if so did you reduce hard food ?
It's a complete pest once they have had it , Fatty had a massive attack as a five year old before he came here and as been delicate since , his is linked to his other issues .
Click to expand...

Hi Goldenstar

Many thanks for your reply.

He was stood in but taken out each evening for walks up the lane. On the day in question, he was tacked up (no exercise sheet, never used them eek!) it was colder....and jogged out of the yard like a loon......not helpful I am sure....

He doesn't really have hard feed as a rule, but has a handful of happy hoof (recommended by vet) each end of the day if in as the others get fed. He has three rugs on as recommend by vet in varying thicknesses.....he is very toasty.

I think the biggest fail is he is on haylage this year as my oldie came back to stay at home with us and he has COPD, que big bale haylage to feed them both. Checked with last owner whether he had been fed it before, which he has...with no issue and in a lot there too.

However, I really think he would be better either living out on haylage 24/7 or if in with hay only. I can feed hay in the field but it is a military operation as we have three others who can and can't have hay or haylage for a variety of reasons!!

He is having electrolytes and magnesium + bute each day currently.

he is a big lad and certainly holds his weight, but the sooner he lives out again the better...sedalin....ACP, not sure but he will need something...!

It is reassuring to hear that's the norm rest period as others have said it sounded a bit OTT, but I don't really want him suffering through that again for the sake of an extra week or two staying in or however long the vet thinks. He is due to be retested blood wise but I will extend it maybe to 10 days so we can see how much they come down.

That journey of two miles bringing him home will be the longest ever!! dreading it. He's one of life's "internal worriers" you don't get any obvious signs from the outside.
 
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Different vets have different ideas about how long to box rest them for - some like them kept in until they can see blood results coming down, others say they can go back out when they seem to be moving normally again. The latter option seems to work well for our horse (usually goes out 1-2 days after an attack), and seems logical as restricted turnout is the trigger for him.

PS: Interesting to see he is on haylage - our horse's tying up has always been when on big bale haylage, not done it in the winters he has been on small bale haylage or hay.
 
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It would depend on the reason for the tie up. If he has a muscle myopathy (sometime tells me you've posted about this horse tying up before?) then you would want to resume exercise as soon as the CK levels had dropped because, AST won't drop without exercise.

If you stood my PSSM mare in for ten days you would probably kill her.
 
If it's a first Attack the vets are more likely to be cautious about the horse going out as the damage to the muscles can be permanent .
I think the horse is in the repeated bouts situation they are take the view the damage is done and are more relaxed .
I think it's likely the cause is a good doer eating lots of Haylege too much energy in too little out you need to be careful in the future .
You'll need to get hay if in or feed some haylege some oat straw if you're in the same situation again.
Fatty has bizarre bouts no muscle stiffness the only clue is pee the colour of cola but that's linked to his partial Anhidrosis , you take blood and the enzyme levels are off the scale ,we have to see him pee after exercise particularly after hunting if the colours not right it's vet straight away and box rest .
You'll get through it fingers crossed it straight forward and simple .
 
unicornystar said:
Hi there

Last week my poor lad tied up badly, within a couple a minutes of being taken out for a hack...having been in 24/7 due to his feet suffering in this wet weather...literally froze to a halt, sweat running off him like a river, he was falling over in his stable, and reversing up to the wall rearing through the pain poor thing.

The vet came quickly, painkillers and tubed him full of goodies in case he was dehydrated, he wasn't apparently but did sweat and foam profusely. Bloods showed as expected enzymes through the roof.

His muscles were rock hard and he really was in a bad way at the time. Since then he has been put on box rest (7 days on Friday this week), bute and no exercise or walking around at all.

My question is, in your experience is 10 days box rest normal after a bad episode? I really want him back out again 24/7 (aided by sedalin!) as soon as possible as I think he would be happier, his feet have recovered after being in a right state, but then on the flip side its suddenly turned cold, he cannot travel currently as ordered by the vet as it could set him off again.

His muscles are going towards a lot softer now and he seems his normal lively self.

I have friends who been told that it is fine to put their horses out after an attack of azutoria within "days".

I have a great vet and I really respect her point of view and she has good reasons for the way she is recommending his treatment.

I was going to have bloods again this Friday but she said that is too soon, and it needs to be at least 10 days....

On the down side I have a seriously pent up large horse who wants to go out and stretch his legs and eat grass...I would have thought as long as he is sedated to a point he could go out and gently sort himself out, my brain is saying the longer he is in the worse he will be....or am I being naïve, which is entirely possible having never had one of my own tie up. I don't want to damage him!

Thank for reading, cookies and milk.....x
Click to expand...
My mare developed Myopathy which is a lesser form of azutoria, she had to have muscle relaxants from the vet and 3 months off.

Caused by too much protein for the work that was being done
 
FfionWinnie said:
It would depend on the reason for the tie up. If he has a muscle myopathy (sometime tells me you've posted about this horse tying up before?) then you would want to resume exercise as soon as the CK levels had dropped because, AST won't drop without exercise.

If you stood my PSSM mare in for ten days you would probably kill her.
Click to expand...

He's a first timer for tying up :(
 
It's his first time tying up and definitely a candidate for too much protein and going out after a few days in like a lunatic........I wanted to stretch his legs, he had other ideas but it was literally a couple of minutes into a joggy walk....

He's softening in his back end nicely, and calming down a bit from his boredom helped by the radio being on and a friend nextdoor who is on box rest for other reasons!

I've tried to feed him hay only but he goes on hunger strike and vet has said he needs to be eating so half and half for now, if he is starving he will have to eat hay!

I have been looking at all the various supplements and wondered if other than electrolytes there is anything that would benefit him. The "plan" is to test his bloods next weds/Thursday, if they are going down then dose him up with calmer and turn him out 24/7 as he was with a quiet field mate.....

Thank you for all your replies, it is very helpful x
 
unicornystar said:
It's his first time tying up and definitely a candidate for too much protein and going out after a few days in like a lunatic........I wanted to stretch his legs, he had other ideas but it was literally a couple of minutes into a joggy walk....

He's softening in his back end nicely, and calming down a bit from his boredom helped by the radio being on and a friend nextdoor who is on box rest for other reasons!

I've tried to feed him hay only but he goes on hunger strike and vet has said he needs to be eating so half and half for now, if he is starving he will have to eat hay!

I have been looking at all the various supplements and wondered if other than electrolytes there is anything that would benefit him. The "plan" is to test his bloods next weds/Thursday, if they are going down then dose him up with calmer and turn him out 24/7 as he was with a quiet field mate.....

Thank you for all your replies, it is very helpful x
Click to expand...

I hope it all goes well .
Unless you have a burning need to work him I would turn him out 24/7 for a say three weeks ( or longer ) then start him off again with some walking exercise .
 
Good reason for a rest until,it's warmer then .
Btw if he gets too hot you can layer big sheets of tin foil between rugs over the quarters to keep them toasty and the rest of the horse cooler .
 
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