back from lameness specialist-still no diagosis-help

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clairefeekerry1

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pick my horse up tomorrow from vets. they rang today to say they basically are no further forward. he was refferred to them by my vets after they couldn't diagose him. so fed up of this now.

so far-
8/10ths lame when ridden on a 10m circle in trot on left rein. appears to be front left. first noticed apprx 10 weeks ago, first odd stride, last time ridden 8/10ths lame. when walkin downhill looks very sore/disunited.
100% sound on lunge both hard and soft surface, tack thourghly checked, ridden by different riders and still lame. no response to bute. had 4x visits from my vets plus one stay at there place. no response to nerve blocks, feet x rayed slight spur on nav bone on right foot but no response to foot block. reffered to specialist who has performed bone scan. all looks good, only points of interest are left front fetlock appears to be slight thickening of bone and right nav bone. spcialist does not think he has nav, or its not the cause as does not block out at all. specailist at first thought ligment damage but after seeing him lunged 200% sound now isn't so sure. neck,sholdurs and both front legs x rayed, all look fine.
specialist advises i take him home and we start the investigation all over again. i stress apart from looking bit odd dowhill he is not even 1/10th lame unridden. no response to flexion tests, trots up sound, lunges amazing. vet says i have to start riding again and we'll go from there.
this is so frustrating. will feel bad riding him again as i no he isn't right. what the hell is going on? what is it about being ridden on a 10m circle that makes him so lame????
 
What a mystery! 8/10 is pretty much crippled, but sound with no rider on board. It's hard even to imagine seeing that, never mind work out what is causing it. Have you ridden him bareback and does he do it then? Surely this has to be something in or very close to the saddle area???? Can you put a child on him and see at what weight he starts to have a problem?

If there is no response to bute then you would imagine that it's mechanical somewhere. But with the scans and xrays showing nothing on the bones, that would suggest soft tissue but that should respond to bute. Is there anywhere in a horse's front end that a tendon/ligament can displace under weightbearing and cause a mechanical lameness without inflammation? Like a locking stifle, in the shoulder area?

Have they checked his sacroiliac? Again it should respond to bute, but I know from experience that it can throw up weird front leg lameness as the horse tries to compensate for the unstable joint.

I'm scratching my head but I am with you in feeling uncomfortable about being told to ride an 8/10 lame horse. Will timing allow you to turn him away for three months without running out of insurance cover on it? I think that's what I would do if nothing shows after all this investigation.
 
Crikey, what a nightmare! Echo everything cptrayes says, especially the bit about riding an 8/10 lame horse. That's downright brutal. 8/10 lame is practically only 3 legs. You'd have more calls from the RSPCA than you knew what to do with. If the lameness only intensifies with an adult rider on board, then it's clearly a weight-pressing-down issue. So as has been suggested, try to lunge him riderless then add weights until you see the lameness emerge. Mind you, that could be a red herring as you note that he's BARELY lame riderless. But barely lame isn't the same as sound. So there's something going on all the time that is made worse by being ridden. Have you tried taking his shoes off and doing the same ridden/unridden tests? Have the vets examined the sole of his foot microscopically? There could be a sliver of glass or grit or god knows what wedged into his sole, that he can cope with when it's only his own weight bearing down on it but the added weight of a rider makes it too painful. I had a cat that got a tiny sliver of slate in his paw and he got steadily more and more unhappy. I couldn't see a thing and nor could the vets at first. But when antibiotics produced no change, they gave him a GA and had a dig about in his paw. Found the slate chip, cat mended. On a similar note, a horse at my yard went out on a hack. Halfway round he suddenly gave a couple of kicks to his belly as if a fly was bothering him. Owner didn't notice any other change at all. Three DAYS later, he started to get more and more lame. Farrier was at the yard so he had a look at the foot. I kid you not, there was a 5 inch bolt wedged right up the inside of the hoof wall. Owner thinks he trod on it at the time he suddenly kicked out but ye gods how does a horse walk around for 3 days with a 5 inch bolt wedged up inside his hoof???? How did he NOT go loopy at the time??? GA to remove it and amazingly he hadn't damaged any of the internal structures and he was being ridden again in no time.
 
How are his feet? Thrush? Don't laugh at me, it is only a suggestion, as the vets haven't come up with anything yet.

This must be so frustrating for you, your poor horse. Everyone thinking hard what could it be.
 
Just an idea...

It may be that when he is ridden, be weights the back of his foot more.
Watch carefully when soemone is on board - does he stand with his fronts more "under him" in such a way that he is attempting to carry the weight on the front half of his hoof?

Could be thrush as OrangeHorse suggests - or something else that is causing caudal hoof pain.

When you are walking him up briskly on a flat hard surface how does he land?
Is there a difference with a rider? What if the rider is on bareback?
 
Hello,

I would try riding bareback. I say this because there is a nerve in
the withers area that can be pinched by a saddle that can cause
tripping or much worse,

No pinching on the straight but on a 10m circle, the saddle may just
be pressing that nerve. I had this with my horse (big shoulder, short
backed warmblood) on the right rein, and he was sorted with specially
wide gullet panel.

Good luck and I hope you get him sorted -- dene
 
This sounds like a neurological problem to me. I have seen a similar presentation in two horses before which had compression of the nerves in the caudal neck. Where they able to xray his caudal neck ie; C5-T1 because few practices have machines powerful enough to go that far back. also was his neck included in the bone scan? It is possible he has damaged the nerves in his brachial plexus which supplies the foreleg or the peripheral spinal nerves where the saddle sits. I suggest you go to one of the big hospitals in new market where they can image these areas properly. Anti-inflammatories and rest may or maynot help.
 
cptrayes said:
What a mystery! 8/10 is pretty much crippled, but sound with no rider on board. It's hard even to imagine seeing that, never mind work out what is causing it. Have you ridden him bareback and does he do it then? Surely this has to be something in or very close to the saddle area???? Can you put a child on him and see at what weight he starts to have a problem?

If there is no response to bute then you would imagine that it's mechanical somewhere. But with the scans and xrays showing nothing on the bones, that would suggest soft tissue but that should respond to bute. Is there anywhere in a horse's front end that a tendon/ligament can displace under weightbearing and cause a mechanical lameness without inflammation? Like a locking stifle, in the shoulder area?

Have they checked his sacroiliac? Again it should respond to bute, but I know from experience that it can throw up weird front leg lameness as the horse tries to compensate for the unstable joint.

I'm scratching my head but I am with you in feeling uncomfortable about being told to ride an 8/10 lame horse. Will timing allow you to turn him away for three months without running out of insurance cover on it? I think that's what I would do if nothing shows after all this investigation.
Click to expand...

how can the stifle lock in the shoulder area ?
 
do you think she might mean ...... similar to a locking stifle, but in the shoulder area.....???




eta - sorry OP, hope you get a diagnosis soon - and that there's something you can do about it.
 
Last edited:
thank you for your replies and ideas.

his whole body was bone scanned and there was virtually nothing of interest apart from his left fetlock joint, but even at that it was minimal. his whole neck, withers and back have also been x rayed by a powerful machine (one of the only vets in this county to have a machine that powerful, hence why i have been reffered there by my own vets) and the x ray was fine. i haven't ridden without a saddle, tho he has been lunged with tack on and was about 2/10ths lame so its obviously something to do with the extra weight that is causing him to be lame. got him back and rode him v gently in the school and as soon as i trotted on the left he went lame. its hard to describe really as to me it doesnt look/feel like a head bobbing lameness more a disunited peg leg type of lameness if you know what i mean. tho if he is nearly 8/10ths lame i suppose it would feel like 3 legs. he has had a neurological exam as well which came out fine. i have the specailist coming out this week to take a look at him ridden and do yet more nerve blocks and basically repeat all the tests my vets did.
 
Ferrador I think you are not a native English speaker, and so perhaps don't understand. But I meant what I wrote, and I think most of the people who have read it have understood it. I'm not sure that your posts criticizing my English are helping the original poster at all, are they? As a very experienced and qualified farrier, working internationally, have you any suggestions for the OP and the rest of us what might cause the wierd symptoms being shown by this horse?
 
Clairefeekerry I have seen your post with a possible diagnosis of suspensory ligament strain but it doesn't ring true with 8/10 (practically on three legs!) lameness only when you are in the saddle.

Other people have suggested that this is neurological and that there are nerves which could be being interfered with by a saddle in the wither area. If you still haven't ridden without a saddle, can I beg you to ride your mare bareback and see what happens then before you go any further, or you could spend a lot of time, money, energy and emotion on going in the wrong direction?
 
still lame :-(

felt really awful acutally. he's been turned out all week on vets insruction until a firm diagnosis is made and he looks lame in the field now. over the last few days since he's been ridden (both saddle and non saddle) he's actually getting a bit of swelling and heat around the fetlock of the leg he appears lame on. vet is coming back out on fri- i will not let them leave the yard until they give me a diagnosis!!
 
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