LOZHUG
Well-Known Member
Jacks pelvis was out and his withers so he has to have a week off
at least he should be more comfortable now
Back man came out this morning
- Thread starter LOZHUG
- Start date
Rachntabby
Well-Known Member
thats what happened to my mare her pelvis was twisted and had sore withers just bringing her back into work she is alot better! hope he is feeling better it makes u wonder how many horses have bad backs and put up with it until they buck or something
GermanyJo
Well-Known Member
Hi
I am sure this is going to start a huge debate, but it always makes me smile when I hear phrases such as 'pelvis and withers were out'
If the horse's Pelvis was 'out' he would have serious problems to stand up!
How many people use a back man on a regular basis, with no reference to their vet?
I can fully understand and I agree that qualified 'back' people can do alot of good with issues horses have with their muscles etc.. however, the vast majority of horses who exhibit back pain, esp on a regular basis are getting this pain due to issues elsewhere in their bodies. For instance ,they may have low grade forelimb lameness and due to this and a restricted way of going they get pain in their back muscles.
I have seen so many instance where people have paid a fortune over longer periods of time to 'back' men and then have found out the problem is elsewhere.
To cut a long story short, often the back pain is a symptom of somethingelse, not a stand alone problem.
Lozhug - I am not suggesting this is def the case with your horse, just your post got me thinking and I thought I would add a comment and see what people thought.
How many people have a back man come out to check their horse and do not even bother to ask to see the horse trotted up?
I am sure this is going to start a huge debate, but it always makes me smile when I hear phrases such as 'pelvis and withers were out'
If the horse's Pelvis was 'out' he would have serious problems to stand up!
How many people use a back man on a regular basis, with no reference to their vet?
I can fully understand and I agree that qualified 'back' people can do alot of good with issues horses have with their muscles etc.. however, the vast majority of horses who exhibit back pain, esp on a regular basis are getting this pain due to issues elsewhere in their bodies. For instance ,they may have low grade forelimb lameness and due to this and a restricted way of going they get pain in their back muscles.
I have seen so many instance where people have paid a fortune over longer periods of time to 'back' men and then have found out the problem is elsewhere.
To cut a long story short, often the back pain is a symptom of somethingelse, not a stand alone problem.
Lozhug - I am not suggesting this is def the case with your horse, just your post got me thinking and I thought I would add a comment and see what people thought.
How many people have a back man come out to check their horse and do not even bother to ask to see the horse trotted up?
doris2008
Well-Known Member
A week off isn't so bad!!
At least he will be comfortable now, you would be amazed how many horses have the exact same problem - many have been working like it for years too!
At least he will be comfortable now, you would be amazed how many horses have the exact same problem - many have been working like it for years too!
doris2008
Well-Known Member
On the other side of the coin there are also an awful lot of forelimb problems which are a result of a back or pelvic problem. My horse had a sore off shoulder which was the result of a rotated pelvis which was causing problems with his near hind.
I would always run past having a back person out with my vet first. And I always expect the horse to be seen moving as well.
kildalton
Well-Known Member
It doesn't make me smile, it makes me darn cross when people spout such rubbish and get paid for it. It's a physical impossibility for some one to" put a pelvis back ".
archie1
Well-Known Member
the vet comes out to me, looks at horse and says get the chiro. can now see the prob myself and get the chiro direct. he always watches a trot up and also makes me spin the horse to check how the legs cross over. few times the chiro came out, did work and the horse didn't improve, gt the vet, vet says get the chiro again and the chiro came and just ensured everyting was really back in (sometimes takes 2 goes)
GermanyJo
Well-Known Member
I was being ironic - or trying to be
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archie1
Well-Known Member
sorry, read my post again, sounds a bit agressive Sorry!!!
doris2008
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
It doesn't make me smile, it makes me darn cross when people spout such rubbish and get paid for it. It's a physical impossibility for some one to" put a pelvis back ".
[/ QUOTE ]
So are you saying that when a pelvis has rotated then there is nothing you can do about it?
I'm pretty sure my chiro has re aligned my pelvis & it has made a a hell of a difference to me!
It doesn't make me smile, it makes me darn cross when people spout such rubbish and get paid for it. It's a physical impossibility for some one to" put a pelvis back ".
[/ QUOTE ]
So are you saying that when a pelvis has rotated then there is nothing you can do about it?
I'm pretty sure my chiro has re aligned my pelvis & it has made a a hell of a difference to me!
LOZHUG
Well-Known Member
All it was he was just harder to work on one rein so i thought I would get it checked as he is fine bending and working on the other. (Another owner was getting the back man out to check thier horse)
I checked with my vet who is very good and he advised to get t he back man out.
You would be surprised how many horses have problems un noticed.
There were 3 horses done at the yard:
Jack (Mine)
My friends who had a problem in the withers
and another owners horse who was been off work for months due to injury after jumping over a large fence into the geldings, this mare also had problems in the pelvis.
I think its better to be safe than sorry and its really not that expensive
I checked with my vet who is very good and he advised to get t he back man out.
You would be surprised how many horses have problems un noticed.
There were 3 horses done at the yard:
Jack (Mine)
My friends who had a problem in the withers
and another owners horse who was been off work for months due to injury after jumping over a large fence into the geldings, this mare also had problems in the pelvis.
I think its better to be safe than sorry and its really not that expensive
laura_1983
Well-Known Member
i started one of these debates not that long ago when i posted about my ponies pelvis, back man came out, ponies pelvis was out, take that to mean what you wish, back man done whatever it is he does, pony has a week off, i get back on board and i feel the difference, thats why i use the back man i use!
everyone has different opinions on everything and it starts to hurt your feelings a bit when you've done what you feel is right by your horse and people start having a go about it, each to their own is the way it works.
everyone has different opinions on everything and it starts to hurt your feelings a bit when you've done what you feel is right by your horse and people start having a go about it, each to their own is the way it works.
GermanyJo
Well-Known Member
Yes, what is the cause of the horse's wither problems ? did he have a fall? is the saddle a bad fit? , all I am saying is without checking out properly , then you can never be sure what is causing the horse to have back or muscle pain
If your vet came out to look at your horse and then referred you to the 'back man' then all well and good. But if he just told you that without looking at the horse himself I would be thinking of changing vets
If your vet came out to look at your horse and then referred you to the 'back man' then all well and good. But if he just told you that without looking at the horse himself I would be thinking of changing vets
LOZHUG
Well-Known Member
My horse suffered an injury before I got him he has scars on his back legs becuase of the injury and this is related as the Back man could tell it was not a new problem.
My vet had checked the back but as he does not specialise in backs referred me to a qualified back man.
We will see how he works after his week off.
He should be able to bend easier and work on the problem rein without as many problems.
My vet had checked the back but as he does not specialise in backs referred me to a qualified back man.
We will see how he works after his week off.
He should be able to bend easier and work on the problem rein without as many problems.
galaxy
Well-Known Member
I agree with GJ. I also think that a lot of back people out there do not explain things properly and this causes a lot confusion. for example, I heard people say that a horses vertebrae are "out" from the loins to the tail. Physically impossible if you know anything about the horses anatomy.
As regards to pelvis' being out. Again, did you ask what they meant? Having recently bought a horse with an un even pelvis (very obvious to the eye when you stand behind him), I have been given advise NOT to do anything to correct by several vets and a highly regarded physio. He is 100% sound with this (passed a 5* vetting with the intention to event) and although it might make him better on one rein than the other, I have been told in no uncertain terms that if anyone tried to manipulate it to make it "level" I would be opening up a huge can of worms and would ulitmately end up in the future with a very lame horse.
I would also like to add I have a twisted pelvis which I have been seeing a chiropractor about for many years, and he has also told me never to let anything take hold of my pelvis and manipulate it back into position, as again it will just cause a lot of problems in the future. Instead he balances out my body and works on the muscles around the pelvis to "encourage" them (for want of a better word) to hold be correctly.
I do hope that it is actually back people expressing themselve incorrectly rather than actually doing these things.
As regards to pelvis' being out. Again, did you ask what they meant? Having recently bought a horse with an un even pelvis (very obvious to the eye when you stand behind him), I have been given advise NOT to do anything to correct by several vets and a highly regarded physio. He is 100% sound with this (passed a 5* vetting with the intention to event) and although it might make him better on one rein than the other, I have been told in no uncertain terms that if anyone tried to manipulate it to make it "level" I would be opening up a huge can of worms and would ulitmately end up in the future with a very lame horse.
I would also like to add I have a twisted pelvis which I have been seeing a chiropractor about for many years, and he has also told me never to let anything take hold of my pelvis and manipulate it back into position, as again it will just cause a lot of problems in the future. Instead he balances out my body and works on the muscles around the pelvis to "encourage" them (for want of a better word) to hold be correctly.
I do hope that it is actually back people expressing themselve incorrectly rather than actually doing these things.
doris2008
Well-Known Member
I had a decent osteo out to see my lad about 3 weeks ago, & the difference in him is sooo obvious! He has a true walk again, a natural swing in his gait & just generally feels marvellous in comparison to how he did a month or so ago.
Fingers crossed you will have a happy horsey when you get back on in a week!
Fingers crossed you will have a happy horsey when you get back on in a week!
starsky
Well-Known Member
I think that the terminology used has led to this debate. Saying 'his pelvis was out' could mean a wide range of things. The pelvis is made up of 2 ilium and the sacrum. The 3 bones are held together by ligaments to form the pelvic ring. Numerous other muscles and ligaments also join the pelvis.
The pelvis can be 'out' if one of those ligaments are strained or sprained. Ask any human who has had a problem with their sacroiliac joint how painful that is. Horses can be affected in the same way. Likewise if a muscle attached to the pelvis is damaged it will probably be in a state of contraction meaning the muscle tendon will pull on the pelvis where it attaches, causing an increased torsion on one side of the pelvis. Contraction or damage to ligaments or muscles attached to any of the 3 pelvic bones can certainly cause an imbalance in the pelvis.
I have heard comments like 'you would need a sledgehammer to put a pelvis back in'. Well of course that depends on the proper diagnosis of 'out', but horses pelvis's can be treated in a similar way to human's. Muscle techniques and manipulations can be used to release stuck joints or relax contracted muscles etc. Equine chiropractors and osteopaths use the same techniques on horses as they do for humans, just adapted to the different structural anatomy.
I'm not sure what your 'back man' was in terms of osteo, chiro or physio, but osteopaths require vet consent prior to being allowed to treat horses otherwise insurance in invalidated.
Also a good 'back man' will look at what is causing the symptoms rather than just treating the symptoms. Symptom relief is a short term fix and unless the cause of the problem is identified symptoms may re-occur.
The pelvis can be 'out' if one of those ligaments are strained or sprained. Ask any human who has had a problem with their sacroiliac joint how painful that is. Horses can be affected in the same way. Likewise if a muscle attached to the pelvis is damaged it will probably be in a state of contraction meaning the muscle tendon will pull on the pelvis where it attaches, causing an increased torsion on one side of the pelvis. Contraction or damage to ligaments or muscles attached to any of the 3 pelvic bones can certainly cause an imbalance in the pelvis.
I have heard comments like 'you would need a sledgehammer to put a pelvis back in'. Well of course that depends on the proper diagnosis of 'out', but horses pelvis's can be treated in a similar way to human's. Muscle techniques and manipulations can be used to release stuck joints or relax contracted muscles etc. Equine chiropractors and osteopaths use the same techniques on horses as they do for humans, just adapted to the different structural anatomy.
I'm not sure what your 'back man' was in terms of osteo, chiro or physio, but osteopaths require vet consent prior to being allowed to treat horses otherwise insurance in invalidated.
Also a good 'back man' will look at what is causing the symptoms rather than just treating the symptoms. Symptom relief is a short term fix and unless the cause of the problem is identified symptoms may re-occur.