Back problems and saddles...

[Gingernags]

The mare we have been looking at, we got a friend to school last night to see how she goes. She's rising 5 and has had a badly fitting saddle in the past. She's had 3 sessions with a physio - bowen therapy I think, where she (the physio) said the mare was more developed on one side and her pelvis was unlevel and this was put right. The woman said if she had another growth spurt, she may need another session.

Well last night in the school, the mare does have nice paces. She tracks up, walks out nicely, but throws her head up quite often. She's ridden in a hanging cheek but single joint snaffle and it has a cavesson noseband. She's in a Wintec adjustable saddle that the current owner bought second hand and it was not fitted by a saddler.

Anyway, when you ask for trot, the mare is uncomfortable, resists, and her head throws up, but she does settle and then trots nicely. As soon as you make a transition up to trot again - same thing. Transitions up to canter are also a bit resistant and not comfortable.

On the whole the friend says she is a lovely mare, very willing, she is balanced for a youngster and not as green as she was expecting, she bends when you ask her, and has a nice mouth and brakes. She does feel a little better and less stiff and resistant as she is worked.

However, the head throwing and resistance in upward transitions makes her think there is a back problem.

Now, if there is this would show up in a vetting - wouldn't it? And the horse would fail? I think the idea is to get the owner to get the back checked again and do a little more flatwork to see if this problem stays or goes before going through a vetting. Mind you I think her tack needs looking at - but its too much of a risk to buy the mare and hope a change of tack works - would it be better to try to get the owner to get her back looked at AND change tack?

Also her teeth haven't been done, but at 4 that doesn't ring any alarm bells.

Thoughts would be appreciated...

 

[the watcher]

it would be interesting to see if the head tossing also happens on upward transitions on the lunge..it may simply come down to how this horse has been ridden at some point..if it has jumped forward into the next pace and then maybe not allowed to go forward...

i think there are more possibilities than badly fitted tack, but also think that this doesn't sound like too serious a problem

 

[Alibear]

I do as the watcher suggests and I also tell the vet about my concerns before the vetting so he could keep an eye out and tell me what he thought.

5 not as green as expected and has a bad back , could be something wrong. But then I am synical. (I'm thinking hocks myself)

 

[Gingernags]

We did think of trying her on the lunge which then takes the saddle out of the equation. Had a long discussion in the car park in the freezing cold!

Plus the mare hasn't been ridden much in the last couple of months, she was on loan with a view to being sold but the lad lost interest and wasn't doing anything with her, riding once a week and just putting her on the walker, so she's not particularly fit or recently schooled either...

 

[Gingernags]

Watching her, she has a really nice low action, very regular, and the friend who was riding her had major back issues with her own horse a few years ago and thinks definitely there is some issue there. She also thinks the saddle doesn't look ideal.

Have to say watching I wouldn't think hocks, it does seem not leg related - but I guess we'll find out!

There are some real good points to this mare, she's really good to hack in traffic, the first time out (she was 3) with the current owner, they rode past a concrete lorry on someone's drive, and a loose bag from the concrete blew under the mares feet. Apparently she didn't turn a hair though the older and more experienced gelding with her went loopy!

Plus as I say she's very relaxed and friendly and affectionate, always a good start. The sort of horse you just want to cuddle as she's just so sweet and soft!

Obviously neither would persuade the friend to buy her if there was a problem, no good having a nice horse if you can't ride it, but both are major plus points IF she's sound and will pass the vet and stay that way!

 

[Scarlett]

this sounds familiar - my IDx came to me a year ago as a rising 5 yo who had been doing BSJA. He threw his head about constantly and had trouble on circles, eventually narrowed the problem down to an issue with his back which has needed treatment every couple of months since diagnosis.

When going into trot he 'skips' and chucks his head up in the air. I tried the transition lunging with and without tack, long reining and just in hand in a head collar and he did it al the same, even after treatment... my vet and pysio bith said it had became habit and with correct schooling it would eventually go. We were precribed lunging with side reins/pessoa to build up correct muscles as we found that if we was working correctly on the bit then he didnt do it as much... the habit eventually went and only reoccured a few weeks ago when he hurt himself again. Thankfully he has had it 'fixed' and was fine being ridden again last night, he now only skips very occasionally and only when falling into trot instead of going forward into it - if that makes sense.

Anyway, the whole reason he has the problem is that previous owners have done too much, too young while he was not physically mature enough to jump so high etc... have been told we will fix it but it will take a while.... thankfully the rest of him is unscathed.

I hope this is of some relevance...

 

[Alibear]

She sounds lovely but more alarm bells are you sure the lad just gave up interest?

Definitly one for a good 5 stage vetting and if she passes that then I'd be very happy to have her. You can spend ages guessing so I'd just book a good vet and find out.

Good Luck.

 

[Gingernags]

Yes, sure - I know the owner and I know the yard and the lad that was going to have her, and its been backed up by people I trust. The lad is only about 17 and his Mum was going to buy the horse, but she's said until he shows he'll put the time in instead of being out pubbing and clubbing all the time, she won't.

He just nips up to the yard, does the bare minimum, and goes again... so she (the mare) has done nothing for a while and I have others that will tell me the real story if there is anything!

 

[CBFan]

I think the saddle will be causing a problem - hate them! (adjustable wintecs) especially on youngsters.

Teeth are another possibility, especially in a 4 / 5 year old.

Could it just be balance issues?

any other signs of pain? Does her back dip when pressure applied, muscles spasm etc?

 

[luane1]

Our horse was vetted and the back problem didn't show up but we had the physio and she said it was due to an ill fitting saddle, he was overly developed on one side. We have been lungeing him every day for 6 weeks then riding every other day and lungeing the other. Have done 6 months of this and his back is now not sore and the muscles have developed properly.

 

[spaniel]

I have to say my first thought was get hold of that wintec, put it in front of a very large vehicle, drive over it and throw it in a skip. My own view is that they are cr*p and cannot be adjusted properly to fit very many horses.

Sorry, I know thats not really much help but I think all you can do for now is rely on a good vet doing a full 5 stage and take it from there.

 

[evsj]

My mare used to be like this when she was baby and I had a poorly fitting saddle on her (through my ignorance). saddle may be a real problem, especially as the behaviour shows up in transitions when her physiology changes. my instructor also hates wintecs because only the front of the saddle can be adjusted (not very well, either) nothing can be done to change the saddle under where most of the rider's weight is. could also be the bit or teeth.
Vetting sounds sensible here if your really like her otherwise. it wouldn't put me off as poorly fitting saddlery is often the cause of many problems.

 

[Shiraz]

Ditto what everyone has said re backs and saddle fit. I have no experience of Wintecs so can't comment.

I am going through a similar problem with my mare. Transitions were "head up and hollow" before going forward to work properly, she was diagnosed (finally) with a rotated pelvis, tilt and wasted/under developed muscles on one side and the opposite on the other. We are now doing ground work with poles (one end raised) and getting regular McTimmoney-Corely & massage sessions. Hopefully that will help but it's the psychological effects that I am struggling with...

I think it would be worth while getting an EDT to look at her mouth. Contrary to popular belief young horses actually need more attention rather than less. This might be part of the reason why she is throwing her head up.

Good Luck whatever you decide and I hope it all turns out ok.

 

[BethH]

Have been through this with youngster, had adjustable wintec was a nightmare saddle for a youngster - very bad idea caused him some issues, also head up and hollowing sounds like lack of experience on how to use back end properly, in my limited experience this is a sign of lack of balance in a youngster. With correct schooling on slowing down and increasing length of stride they improve well. If you know a good back person would ask the current owner if they can check the horse over for you as well as a 5* vet that way you get a thorough checkup. her temperament sounds hard to beat so I wouldn't write her off, sounds as though you are quite taken with her so would be worth investigating further.

 

[rcm_73]

Yes check teeth at this age there are permanents erupting and a four year old we had needed her molars checking 6 monthly due to having a 'wave' mouth. Re: saddle, have you considered a treeless?

 

[flyingfeet]

One thing no one has mentioned is the current rider???!!

Not every problem is caused by the tack and unbalanced, uneven development is more often than not caused by a poor or crooked rider.

We had a wintec on one of our youngsters that suited the purpose well as he went from X-wide to medium.

He had some balance problems and wasn't going very well, and a very good back man came out and told me to get rid of the rider (not me fortunately!).

I'd get rid of that single jointed bit and watch changes on the lunge.