Back to front or front to back?

khalswitz

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Here's some food for thought.

A friend of mine claims that the 'correct' way of doing things, ie working from back to front, getting the forward and the engagement before worrying about the head, is the ideal, but that is many reschooling cases it doesn't work. She says there are cases when she is reschooling where she teaches the horse to soften first on the forehand before getting the hindquarters going.

I used to agree with her, that there are many roads to Rome, but with my current instructor I think I've learned how you can apply the same principles in different ways but still doing things 'correctly' - Geoff has responded fabulously to it despite loads of issues.

At a recent Pammy Hutton demo she mentioned that 'we aren't BHS here - sometimes we do have to work from front to back, or using outside leg and inside hand'. My friend was jubilant.

What is your opinion? What sort of alternative approaches have you found successful, or not successful, in teaching a horse how to 'go' correctly? And do you believe in rules, no rules, or exceptions to the rules?
 

Pigeon

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Well we're hardly 'correct' at this stage but we are getting there.

I agree, I toiled for a long time leaving my ex racer's head alone, just working on impulsion etc, sending him forward if he came behind the vertical, and we weren't really getting anywhere. I still had a hollow horse! Working him in a very low, round outline was a revelation for both of us, and I was suddenly able to pick him up without losing the roundness. But apparently a lot of dressage trainers take that approach, it's just not 'classical' :p He is not a conventional horse though, several people have used the term 'weirdo' ;)

With my younger horse, just working him into a contact and thinking about straightness and rhythm worked! But then he hadn't spent the majority of his life parading around like a giraffe :p
 

LeannePip

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I deffinatly feel 'flexible' on the subject, horses for courses and all that. When i backed my horse we just hacked mainly, didnt ever touch her head just did everything on a long rein; WTC. when she came to work with me she began school work and we started with acceptance of a contact, then once we had some acceptance for her to beable to take the contact forward, we worked on forward, I feel if you comleetly ignore the front end to begin with you then have to go back and fix the 'hollow' that is sometimes inadvertently created, rather than working on both simultaneously.

Mums horse was started with little/no thoughts about the front end and worked on 'forward forward forward' as a result this encouraged the hollowness and when it was felt she was ready to accept a contact she detested quite a bit and still isnt fully accepting of the contact, but is very forwards!
 

Walrus

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It's interesting, my pony had spent 2 years hacking and with ineffective schooling (by me - it was the blind leading the blind) and as a result was a reschooling case when we found our current instructor. Pony had a huge muscle under his neck, evaded by bracing his neck upwards and went at the speed of lightening everywhere due to a complete lack of discipline or balance. When we started again with him we had to get some submission from the front and also get some balance so we slowed him right down and worked on him yielding to a correct contact instead of bracing against or ignoring a rubbish intermittent not-really-there contact. Once he accepted the contact we have been able to work him forwards into it and develop the engine correctly.
 

wench

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Different methods work for different horses.

I posted about a year ago on my horse at the time - she had a few medical/behavioural issues that meant she wasnt doing herself any favours is she was being worked in a hollow outline. She HAD to have her head down. By that I don't mean cranked in with draw reins, but my intention with her was to start working her in a market harborough.

I wouldnt do this with every horse, but this one simply had to be ridden in this manner, else it would be to her detriment.
 

khalswitz

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It's interesting, definitely. Up until my current horse, I was very 'every horse is different'. Geoff was your stereotypical hollow, dead mouthed exracer, with all that developed brachiocephalic muscle under the neck and huge pectorals from bumbling along on the forehand.

We went through a few different attempts at getting him to relax his jaw and lower the head (not even outline, just lowering) and it went from bad to worse. Then I found my current instructor who said: 'take a contact, sit back, and put your leg on'. It wasn't instantaneous, but he started to get the idea the longer we kept sending him forward into the hand, but without letting him rush. Now, you pick up a contact and he softens

I've used aids like draw reins and MHs in the past to good effect - but I'd be slower to use them now I think, after seeing how what seemed a hopeless case did come right when we persevered 'correctly'.

Did any of you who did work on the front end first find it difficult to encourage engagement behind afterwards?
 

be positive

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There really is no rulebook that the horse can read so I do tend to treat them all as individuals but with the same, or at least similar, aim in mind throughout.
I had one that required the front end worked on, I had watched his owner have lessons being told for months that if she rode him from her legs he would seek the contact, he was of the opinion that the contact had nothing to do with him and he would have happily gone on for years never seeking the contact as he had no reason to, he was very forward going, well balanced in his own way and at 12 was well established. I took over his education, we had a few discussions but once he realised that it was actually easier for him to be soft he did learn to go sweetly, getting the hind leg active was never an issue as he was always forward and pushing, which is partly why he found it so easy to avoid working correctly for so long.

I have a now ex racehorse in the yard, he did pre training here last summer including some very basic schooling just to help get him using himself, he came back in Feb and we ran him in several p2ps again doing some schooling mixed in with the fast work, he does everything in a loose ring snaffle and now has a fairly well established way of going which when he comes back in after his summer rest will hopefully stand him in good stead to go on and enjoy a life out of racing, again the front end needed working on but to a lesser extent than the pony, his main issue will be lateral flexion.
 

HotToTrot

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I think they need to be soft in front and working from behind and over the back. If they're plenty fwd, but not into a contact, then they're not working correctly! I think it's about keeping both going - front and back! so it's back to front, front to back, both at once!
 

Goldenstar

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You have to train the horse to let you influence it , sometimes this means you do things that might not be strictly ' correct '.
There are many roads to Rome and lots of horses have taken lots of different wrong terms on the way that influences how you have to approach them .
I find if you go with your gut feeling while always keeping the training scales in the back of your mind you never go far wrong .
 

khalswitz

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I think they need to be soft in front and working from behind and over the back. If they're plenty fwd, but not into a contact, then they're not working correctly! I think it's about keeping both going - front and back! so it's back to front, front to back, both at once!

Like this a lot!!
 
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