Backing and age....

Queenbee

Queenbee

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Hi there,

Just a quick question, my initial idea was to back ben at 4, I am now considering doing very light backing earlier, My initial worry was that he would be too young in temperament to be backed any earlier. We hope he will make 16hh+, his breeding is 50% TB 25% Connie 25%? He is very much hunter type and very laid back. I think that on the one hand he would benefit from the stimulation to his brain, he loves to 'do things' and he would only be doing very light occasional 20 mins hacking. I know there are a lot of people who back earlier than 4 (who don't brake racers!) I know why some wait till 4, but I just wanted to get general opinions and reasons off others what age do you brake? Why? What are the benefits? What are the cons? Why, if you brake earlier, do you not do it later? and why if you leave it till 4 do you leave it till then?

Thank you :)
 
I've never backed a horse (apart from re-backing Lady) but i always thought the right age to back was 3 and a half to 4 years. It all depends on the horse tbh. i know a horse that was backed at 3 and was the safest, calmest and most bomb-proof horse ive ever met. If the horse is mentally ready to be backed and is healthy and well developed, then i dont see much harm in light work for the first year.

Saying that. I know someone who has just backed their 2 year old, its only small, maybe around 13hh and theyre not the smallest of people either :rolleyes:
 
I do not have one day or one year to break, what does that mean, I educate my boys, so at two years old they have had a walk on the road, long reining and stuff, a little show in hand, and lots of handling, I mean what is breaking?
 
It all depends on the horse, some are ready at just over 3 some not till they are nearly 5.. It all depends on the horses nature & is the horse mentally & physically ready for some light work? as the owner you should be able to answer the questions easily
 
It depends... tb's seem mature earlier than say - an andalusian. Not only that, you don't want to do it too young before bones finish growing as that creates problems later in life. You can never guarantee anything, but you want to provide the best start possible when horse is physically able to take the strains, and mentally able to process new things without short-circuiting! :)
 
Anything from 2 to 6 can be the right age for backing - it totally depends on the horse. I worked at a RS where they backed just after the second birthday, that was too young for many of them and one was definitely ruined because of this. Three is a good age for backing most horses. Some would be better left a little longer, but I think most are fine backed at 3.
 
I'm backing my half TBxID half connie in late August-September - sending her off as she's really too lovely to mess up! She was 3 in May and mentally is so mature, takes everything in her stride and yes, is a cheeky so and so, but I think we're making the right choice :) Will keep her going very lightly over winter and start properly schooling as she rises 4 :)
 
I think the way of backing at 3/4 then turning away for winter before bringing in for the real schoolwork at 4/5/6 and putting the buttons in the right places etc seems most sensible... I don't like to see them jumping at 3/4 though - you'll be fixing shoulder, hock, back issues somewhere down the line.
 
MrsD123 said:
I do not have one day or one year to break, what does that mean, I educate my boys, so at two years old they have had a walk on the road, long reining and stuff, a little show in hand, and lots of handling, I mean what is breaking?
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Oh for gods sake MrsD, pipe the hell down with your sanctimonious posts! Just to clarify for you since you seem to take the 'delusion of superiority' approach with everyone, you are not the only person who 'educates' their horse, Ben is 25months, he is learning to load, he leads and trots in hand, he has probably seen more kinds of traffic than your 2 year olds can poke a carrot stick at, he is ok with and without company (we have stopped separation anxiety), he is mouthed, he can be completely handled, he can lead with other horses, he is good with farrier, he is good to catch, he has his mane pulled and is good to bath! Get the picture? Oh I forgot... he loves his roller! I am not talking about bringing him in and jumping on his back un bl**dy handled!

And I use the word 'breaking' because it is a generally understood term, I too don't particularly think it is a perfect description, I would prefer something along the lines of 'bringing on' but I do not, on the whole have a hypersensitive disposition to the word!

I am saying should I work towards 'educating' my horse to have me on his back at the age of 4 or can I do it earlier if his disposition is conducive to it?


Is that a more comfortable question for you MrsD?
 
M_G said:
It all depends on the horse, some are ready at just over 3 some not till they are nearly 5.. It all depends on the horses nature & is the horse mentally & physically ready for some light work? as the owner you should be able to answer the questions easily
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M_G, Tallyho! and KazOnAPiano thank you, that is kind of what I was thinking, It will only be light hacking and only if he is mentally and physically sound for it, but I wanted to reassure myself that it was 'ok' and not a cardinal sin to consider it before 4! :D
 
queenbee said:
Oh for gods sake MrsD, pipe the hell down with your sanctimonious posts! Just to clarify for you since you seem to take the 'delusion of superiority' approach with everyone, you are not the only person who 'educates' their horse, Ben is 25months, he is learning to load, he leads and trots in hand, he has probably seen more kinds of traffic than your 2 year olds can poke a carrot stick at, he is ok with and without company (we have stopped separation anxiety), he is mouthed, he can be completely handled, he can lead with other horses, he is good with farrier, he is good to catch, he has his mane pulled and is good to bath! Get the picture? Oh I forgot... he loves his roller! I am not talking about bringing him in and jumping on his back un bl**dy handled!

And I use the word 'breaking' because it is a generally understood term, I too don't particularly think it is a perfect description, I would prefer something along the lines of 'bringing on' but I do not, on the whole have a hypersensitive disposition to the word!

I am saying should I work towards 'educating' my horse to have me on his back at the age of 4 or can I do it earlier if his disposition is conducive to it?


Is that a more comfortable question for you MrsD?
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Why do you ask if all you want is the anwer you want to hear?.... this is a rhetorical question btw[google that]
I kind of assume that people who post on here are looking for answers, therefore they are asking for people with more experience than they have to respond, I don't know why you think I am sanctimonious, I assume you are going with Wilkopedia
..........."Making a show of being morally better than others"
rather than the Free Dictionary Definition
............ "affecting piety or making a display of holiness
[from Latin sanctimonia sanctity, from sanctus holy]"
 
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MrsD123 said:
I do not have one day or one year to break, what does that mean, I educate my boys, so at two years old they have had a walk on the road, long reining and stuff, a little show in hand, and lots of handling, I mean what is breaking?
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but you still was more concerned about hacking your horse whilst being treated for strangles, suing the yard owner/manger any one possible, and of course you knew better than anyone else yet in "all your years of horse ownership" you had never come across strangles, we then have the fact you was goin gto sell the poor beast.

Now then mrsd, 9/10 times i find your posts very amusing, occasionally i almost agree, other times i want to lock you in a slurry pit, complete with a harness and dunk you up and down in it. :D

op. go with gut feeling my 3 year is a huge beast.. 16.1, in a 11 inch wide saddle, 6.9 rug im itching to do more, yet is curley foal/baby tail reminds me just how young and immature he is.

heheh have a piccie just cause i love him.. and i prmise he was 3 on the 1st of june. (please excuse my weeds, fields have not been looked after for years and i have ten sheep due to stay for a while but had my new lad arrive today and wanted him and my boys together)

horserandoms024.jpg
 
I have two ID geldings that I have owned since they were weanlings, I backed both at 3, one was very good the other was very nervous, both were lightly hacked in walk and trot, they worked for approx 3 months, hacking and light schooling, walk, trot and pole work. They were turned away for the winter and brought back this spring, I got both going on my own and they are now cantering, hacking alone and have just started very small jumps, the one who was nervous is a big heavyweight, I am concious he is no way mature but at the same time he does try it on so i am pleased i did some prelimary work with him as a 3 year old so bringing him back as a 4 year old was no problem, the other one took it all in his stride so probably had i left him it wouldnt have made any difference to him as a four year old. I certainly dont think it was detrimental in any way.
 
queenbee said:
Hi there,

Just a quick question, my initial idea was to back ben at 4, I am now considering doing very light backing earlier, My initial worry was that he would be too young in temperament to be backed any earlier. We hope he will make 16hh+, his breeding is 50% TB 25% Connie 25%? He is very much hunter type and very laid back. I think that on the one hand he would benefit from the stimulation to his brain, he loves to 'do things' and he would only be doing very light occasional 20 mins hacking. I know there are a lot of people who back earlier than 4 (who don't brake racers!) I know why some wait till 4, but I just wanted to get general opinions and reasons off others what age do you brake? Why? What are the benefits? What are the cons? Why, if you brake earlier, do you not do it later? and why if you leave it till 4 do you leave it till then?
Thank you :)
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So, the horse is not 4 he is only two, what would you achieve by backing him. Do you want to hack out a two year old, when the perceived wisdom is that at the age of two they should be out in a field with their mates learning to grow up.
Not to be patronising / sanctimonious or even intelligent, therefore, I assume that you know that horses are not fully mature til 7 or 8, at the age of two, you can do more damage than good for example the bones are "soft", and easily damaged, if you want a horse to ride in a few years time and keep him sound for many years, put him out until he looks the part.
I did not react to your initial "baiting" till I realised you were talking about riding a two year old, ........... no harm will be done if a light jockey sits on his back to accustom him to the "tiger", but if he gets a fright when you are out hacking he may be nervous all his life.
If you need something to ride, borrow a friends horse.
 
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Research at the Animal Health Newmarket has found that horses brought into work at three develop more and are better for it than leaving them until they are older. This is providing that they are not raced around but in steady regular work (at least five days a week for around an hour a time)
A certain amount of work on the roads helps to harden their legs and generally the exercise is of benefit to them.
 
Foxhunter49 said:
Research at the Animal Health Newmarket has found that horses brought into work at three develop more and are better for it than leaving them until they are older. This is providing that they are not raced around but in steady regular work (at least five days a week for around an hour a time)
A certain amount of work on the roads helps to harden their legs and generally the exercise is of benefit to them.
Click to expand...

Was this research done on TB's or various breeds?
 
I prefer to leave mine til they're 4. They could have 20 years as riding horses ahead of them - so I'm happy to give them those first few years to be babies, hang out with their friends, and just generally chill.

I'd be interested to hear why people are so keen to start them earlier - what's the rush?
 
I would happily hop on and start some educational activity at 3 if the horse is strong enough and the rider nice and light. I would be averse to workign in an arena or doing more than 20 mins up the road and back but some light stimulating work is beneficial I think.
I also think that you have the opportunity to establish discipline before they get too argumentative.
 
0- 2 i do ground handling teaching to lead tie up pick feet out

commands walk on stand no ( walk trot in hand )

stand when grooming
2 maybe walk round arena in hand doing the same above
plus leading out on road


2 - 1/2 - 3 1/2 gradually teach them to lunge then have saddle on and bridle 3 1/2 / 4 1/2 lunging then backing then lightly schooling grad progressing

dont like doing to much to soon before knees knit id cross and id always better to wait till 5 as their legs take longer to knit . wait a little longer less damage to growing legs and tendons

i was advised not to do any thing serious like jumping till she was at least 6 i have seen to many larger breeds do to much to soon and by 7-8-9 their legs are shot.

one girl i know was jumping her pony Apache at 4 he was doing 5ft jumps by the age of 7 his hocks were shot whats the point wait a little you will have a better outcome with your horse competing for longer
 
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Foxhunter49 said:
Research at the Animal Health Newmarket has found that horses brought into work at three develop more and are better for it than leaving them until they are older. This is providing that they are not raced around but in steady regular work (at least five days a week for around an hour a time)
A certain amount of work on the roads helps to harden their legs and generally the exercise is of benefit to them.
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Can you point us to this somewhere for a read please? It's interesting because it contradicts the Dr Deb Bennett Ranger article.

I'd go slightly against the flow here because I'd say what's the rush? Foxhunter's post seems to prove that there are conflicting scientific studies on this, because other studies recommend that we don't sit on horses until they are four years old. A well handled youngster like yours should be easy to back and bring on. I doubt he's bored really, but if you wanted to give him more to do he could be led out on hacks from another horse, taken for long walks in hand or even introduced to really interesting stuff like horse agility.
:-)

You'll get lots of completely different views on this, so I hope they help you to decide.
 
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the earliest i would "back" is 3.1/2 but with that i just mainly would be leaning over and led round in hand till 4
you hope to have the horse i presume for a long time right?


no rush take your time if he likes stimulation try other things which are easier like walking over poles make a box out of poles and get him to step over and then halt in centre of box for a few mins before walking on all preparation for say dressage halt bit, but its not hard on his legs only his brain. also teaching his him to stop and wait very useful for stopping at road junctions , so a tragedy doesn't happen later on. get him used to things like bags noise all this is stimulation and learning without straining his knees and legs
 
I think it all depends on the horse, i have broken a horse at 2 1/2 years old as she was big and bored, others 3 one was 5 and was left late as was backward in trust issues.
So personally you know your horse best OP do what feels right for you
 
Foxhunter49 said:
Research at the Animal Health Newmarket has found that horses brought into work at three develop more and are better for it than leaving them until they are older. This is providing that they are not raced around but in steady regular work (at least five days a week for around an hour a time)
A certain amount of work on the roads helps to harden their legs and generally the exercise is of benefit to them.
Click to expand...

Brilliant I agree totally to this!

I lightly backed my horses late in October last year when they were 2 and a half years and I am so glad for doing so - I turned them away for the winter and brought them back to work in the Summer when they had turned 3 - I personally believe that a bit of muscle tone helps support bones as they grow they develop a hardiness and a slightly better maturity - I could tell they were ready and bored of just coming in and out of the field they love going places they are absolutely 100% bomb proof rattly old tractors with trailors going past and they don't bat an eyelid - it also helps if you are a confident rider the more you worry how your horse is going to react the more they do worry and react!! I have by no means galloped them round I have been concentrating on general dressage work getting them to move away from my leg, straightness, balance and rhythm and working down and round so they develop back muscles to support me as a rider...

Its also a fact of trust as well, I have had both mine since they were 2 years old I have handled them through there difficult stages and have re-assured them if they are unsure of anything so they explicitly trust me this makes backing easier - they listen to your voice the WHOLE time so if you are relaxed with them there is nothing to get worried about ;-)

I hope this is of some use OP

Stelzar
 
Foxhunter49 said:
Research at the Animal Health Newmarket has found that horses brought into work at three develop more and are better for it than leaving them until they are older. This is providing that they are not raced around but in steady regular work (at least five days a week for around an hour a time)
A certain amount of work on the roads helps to harden their legs and generally the exercise is of benefit to them.
Click to expand...
My scientific background tell me this looks like the results of some survey which AH Newmarket might have done [ I have participated in such surveys, which can only be described as pseudo-scientific at best]
A proper experiment would start with a large number of similar horses from identical backgrounds and then split into two group, the control and the experimental, the experiment would be carried out then all would have to be monitored for number of years, I can't see this.
Not many horses are in identical regular work five days a week and if they were "raced around" or stressed out, who would decide this, what would one do with these horse in the experiment?
In the back of my mind I have an idea that some work was done on age of training of racehorses, and it was concluded that they would be better not raced as two year olds, but I don't think many of us would need a survey to work that one out!
 
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MrsD123 said:
Do you want to hack out a two year old, when the perceived wisdom is that at the age of two they should be out in a field with their mates learning to grow up.
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Can't see where it mentions the horse is two..... However it's almost irrelevant.

With bigger hunter types there is absolutely nothing wrong with a little light breaking at this age. And I would imagine that the OP is sensible enough not to include hacking in this.

What this would mean, MrsD, is introduction of tack, longreining, being sat on, working quietly up to walk and some trot. A walk around the menage (or equivalent) off the lead rein - and then turned away. So perhaps 4 or 5 weeks of light work.

Perceived wisdom is actually to start a horse at an age that is appropriate to that horse. And in my experience (again with big type hunter's) that is often at a late 2 years old - and rising 3 year old.

Perceived wisdom is also to start a potentially big horse at a younger age - when it is somewhat less physically strong - making the process 'safer' for the jockey.......
 
amymay said:
Can't see where it mentions the horse is two..... However it's almost irrelevant.

With bigger hunter types there is absolutely nothing wrong with a little light breaking at this age. And I would imagine that the OP is sensible enough not to include hacking in this.

What this would mean, MrsD, is introduction of tack, longreining, being sat on, working quietly up to walk and some trot. A walk around the menage (or equivalent) off the lead rein - and then turned away. So perhaps 4 or 5 weeks of light work.

Perceived wisdom is actually to start a horse at an age that is appropriate to that horse. And in my experience (again with big type hunter's) that is often at a late 2 years old - and rising 3 year old.

Perceived wisdom is also to start a potentially big horse at a younger age - when it is somewhat less physically strong - making the process 'safer' for the jockey.......
Click to expand...

Agree with the Above - from personal experience I still let my horses be horses and play out in the field - infact I went to a show not so long ago and all the horses were like robots my 3 YO's wouldn't stand still and were flybucking and rearing in the class -needless to say I took them out of the ring - was fun though ha ha ha (also didn't help there stablemate winding them up whinying all the time)
 
queenbee said:
Oh for gods sake MrsD, pipe the hell down.......... Ben is 25months, ............
I am saying should I work towards 'educating' my horse to have me on his back at the age of 4 or can I do it earlier if his disposition is conducive to it?
Is that a more comfortable question for you MrsD?
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The OP asked for advice on the age of "braking" and flip flopped between braking and backing, it was only after my posting that she decided to give us a run down on current age and education, in my opinion, what she was asking was, can I do what I want to do now [including hacking] and will there be any downsides.
Well there can be downsides that is why the percieved wisdom is to hold back with youngsters if you want them to last a long time.
 
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